Layout Help: Getting rid of corner cabinet?

neitsdelfNovember 20, 2013

I'm remodeling my kitchen and I have three rough layouts
I'm considering.

Plan "A" is sort of what we currently have but with deeper counters and two added two pantry cabinets on the far left. But the corner cabinet wastes space and deepening the counters exacerbates the problem.

Plan "B" gets rid of the corner cabinet by moving the stove into the corner and the fridge onto the same wall and lining the former fridge/stove wall with pantry cabinets. The stove in the corner doesn't seem such a good idea--not really because of the fire hazard (I could tile the wall or whatever) but because I wouldn't have a countertop landing zone on the one side. But having the fridge out in the middle seems to be more efficient.

Plan "C" is similar but swaps the fridge and stove positions and puts the dishwasher to the left of the sink to keep it away from the fridge.

My thought is that versus Plan "A" the second two in effect exchange the stacked (upper and lower) corner cabinet volume of space for a volume of space on the angle wall allowing room for a fourth pantry, and adding a bit of wall space, at the expense of some countertop space. But my island should have plenty of space for work, and we mostly do all the prep on the current island anyway.

I feel the second two layouts give us a net gain of useful storage space (a prime directive), but sacrifices the wonderful deep corner counter space where we currently keep our two knife blocks, tea fixin's, and some other miscellaneous "stuff."

Am I missing something?


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Can you mark on the layout what the appliances are? I can tell which one is your sink but that's it.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 8:17PM
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What if you went with plan A but used a blind corner "magic arena" there. With it opening on the right side of the sink then putting a 6" or 9" cabinet on the left side of the stove. I think the BC magic arena cabinets come in 48" or 54" width, standard 24" depth then you could hold it out from the wall for your extra deep cabinets. I am currently having a similar issue with my layout. The B.C.M.A. cabinet seems to be the best use of space of all the corner options.... The first half of the cabinet shelves are attatched to the door and come out when opened and the last half is pulled out of the back at the same time.Expensive but worth it in the end. I despise lazzy susans,

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 8:35PM
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Debrak2008: The stove is the one with the grates. The fridge is the one with the handles sticking out the furthest from the cabinets.

WhiskyWoman: I don't think I can do a blind cabinet without "invading" the space directly to the right of my sink where I simply *must* have drawers!

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 8:44PM
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Ok sorry I didn't "get" that.

Is there any way to move the fridge out of the L? Like on the bottom of the diagram? We have a similar L and moved the fridge out of it for a better layout.

Can the sink move to the left? Not be under the window?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 8:49PM
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Fori is not pleased

What's behind the blind corner? Is it a room that could use inconspicuous low storage? My favorite treatment of blind corners is having them accessible from the other side but it sure depends on what's over there.

I think that's what OldBat2be did isn't it? My parents used to store booze in theirs....

Here is a link that might be useful: blind corner with purty drawers on other side

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 10:25PM
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I have two corners (two peninsulas) - one has a prep sink and the other has a cabinet turned 90 degrees so it faces outside the kitchen. It's a useful way to use the space more efficiently.

OldBat3Be did something similar - only hers is in another room altogether!

You do need about 3" of filler on each side of the corner to ensure the doors/drawers and hardware clear each other on each side of the corner.

If you make the cabinet that's turned 90 degrees 27" wide, the back of that cabinet acts as filler for one side - so you only need filler on the other side.

Standard sink cabinets are probably the worst when it comes to storage with corner cabinets second (IMO, blind corners are worse than corner susans in terms of access and space usage - but that's a different discussion!) So by putting a sink cabinet in the corner, I minimized the # of inefficient storage locations. I have found that it's a great place for cutting board storage as well as pizza stones and cast iron frying pans. I store them lengthwise so the length goes into the back corners where it's almost impossible to reach - but since the cutting boards are stored lengthwise, the fronts are close to the door so they're easy to remove/replace.

Creative thinking can come up with many ideas!

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 10:44PM
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Wow lots of good input here! I agree with buehi that the corners are a waste. Blind or Susan. What if you did placement of sink and stove as in plan C but kept the run of base and counter going around the corner and put the refer back where you have it in plan A?

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 11:40PM
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Just a little more food for thought... A sink in the corner limits the users to 1 person at a time, no matter how big it is.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 11:44PM
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I like A, but swap the fridge and pantry. That puts the fridge in the bigger aisle and closer to the dining.

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 11:49PM
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Yeah what williamsem said

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 11:54PM
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If you really want to get rid of the corner, you can make some adjustments to C, I think.

You will never be able to fully open your fridge tight against a wall like that. So move it to the short wall with tall pantry cabs next to it. Then move your DW to the right, in the midst of your prep space is not a great place for it. I'd also consider shifting the sink slightly to the right, so that it is more centered under one pane, rather then centered under the middle stile. This will give you a little more useful space between sink and range - typically a very high use area, even with the large expanse of island right behind you.

There are some negatives to this plan, but it is better than any "remove the corner" plans that have an appliance stuck back in the corner instead of a cabinet.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 7:23AM
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Also agree with williamsem about moving the fridge. Could you then move the stove down to the right a bit and have a little more work space b/w it and the sink? Don't know if this image is real life for the table but just make sure you have enough room between the table/chairs and the end of the island for someone to scooch through. Any desire for a nice prep sink at the end of your island?

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 8:57AM
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Well thanks everyone!

I never considered not centering the sink at the window. I will consider putting it in the corner, but I'm not sure I'd relish staring at the wall. But centering the sink on a single pane, rather than at the stile, is definitely a possibility. I'm going to "investigate" these two options with DW.

And I think the idea of moving the fridge back to the original location on the short wall is a good idea, moving the short wall storage it displaces over to the corner.

I don't think the fridge in the corner would be so bad--it might not show well on this plan but the fridge in the drawing is actually a few inches wider than our actual GE Dutch Door fridge and I also I left a few inches of blank space between it and the wall--with the amount of space I'd have with the right-hand door would open pretty far.

The dining room is measured and the island is placed so that there will definitely be enough space--the clip art that came with the program is a bit misleading.

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 9:42PM
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What is wrong with a corner Susan? I love mine. It hold a lot of things and is easy to get into. One of the things I love about the remodel!

    Bookmark   November 21, 2013 at 10:42PM
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I'm with Heidi. Eliminating the corner robs you of both storage and counter space.

I like Plan A, with the sink moved to the left as suggested, and the fridge on the sink wall, on the left end. I have a super susan in my new kitchen, with an easy-reach cabinet above it, and I love both.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2013 at 10:12AM
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WhiskyWoman - in our case it's our prep sink and it's a small sink, so only one person can work at it anyway. Our cleanup sink is much bigger and is along a straight run - two people can easily work at it.

The point I was trying to make is that it often takes some creative thinking to come up with ways around a "corner".

I think it's Plllog that has a corner cabinet of drawers - it's another alternative to corner usage.

However, I still believe that a corner susan is a much better use of space than just deadening out a corner - which some people do. If you have a ton of space, then fine, but in a lot of cases I've seen people with little storage space deaden out a counter b/c they've been convinced that corner cabinets are useless/waste too much space. In our old kitchen, our lazy susan (w/center pole) held all our pots & pans, colanders, and larger serving pieces. I was planning another corner susan to hold small appliances in our new kitchen. I was actually disappointed when my DH took me up on an idea I just casually threw out there about the corner - turning the cabinet 90 degrees (it's our Pet Center - it holds our dogs' food, treats, spare collars, leashes, etc.). I now have to store all my small appliances in my rather small pantry. The cabinet is really a great use of space and an excellent location for the dog stuff, but I really wanted a place to store my small appliances other than in the pantry or basement!

Neitsdelf - do you have a walk-in or reach-in pantry elsewhere?

Also, your island, as shown is too wide. There is not enough room b/w your island and the table. It looks like it's approx 33", and that's too narrow. 33" is the minimum aisle width if no traffic ever passes behind the seats. In your case, it's the path to the sliding doors (at least I think that's what they are - or are they just windows?) as well as a path to the kitchen. You need at least 48" on that aisle.

Can you change the window in the kitchen? If so, I would consider a bumpout behind the sink (6 to 9 inches) and then 28.5" deep counters rather than 30" deep. You seem worried about the deeper counters with regards to the corner cabinet - slightly shallower counters would help. You have plenty of work room on your island, so are deeper counters that important on the sink run?

    Bookmark   November 22, 2013 at 9:00PM
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Hi Buehl, I don't think corner sinks are all bad per say and thats great that you have two but I didn't see two in the kitchen in question (Neitsdelf's) so that was why I mentioned it. And yes I agree with you that a lazy susan is better than no use of the space at all. I am currently having a design dilemma myself and must include a lazy susan or a blind corner. Haven't decided yet. Either way I am curious to see what Neitsdelf comes up with in the end.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2013 at 10:10PM
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I have just finished a kitchen and I have three lazy susans. Architect wanted four, but since I really am not fond of them, I was allowed to nix one for a corner cupboard. If I could have figured out how to do it, I wouldn't have any. The upper corner cupboards will have to have rarely used items, since it takes a ladder to reach the top. If I had a longer run, I would love one of those library ladders!

The first thing for you is to place the refrigerator in a place that makes it easy to operate.

I put my sink and cook top on the only full length wall. I used picture murals so I won't have to look at a blank wall. I did not want a sink on the island. I am tired of looking at dirty pots and pans while eating dinner! Cook top was okay, but in the end I decided to have a plain island.

Whatever you choose, you will love in the end. I love my kitchen, even with all of those susans.


    Bookmark   November 22, 2013 at 10:30PM
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Buehl--thanks for your insight. The current kitchen is like Plan "A" but with 24" deep counters and 23" deep cabinets (1" overhang), and where the two cabinets are by the door wall (not a sliding door; it's hinged) there is empty space. We have almost no food storage--the corner bottom lazy susan is and the little pantry next to the fridge are about it.

When I got married and moved into DW's house she let me repurpose the hallway linen closet into a reach-in pantry since I had to use the pantry next to the fridge for pots (I have lots). And now DW wants her linen closet back.

Maybe I'm overcompensating for the current shallowness of my counters, and like I said above, we really do most of our prepping on the island. So I will reconsider the depth of the perimeter cabinets. But I really want deeper uppers (like 15" at least), so I think the lowers should probably be a bit more than the standard 24" cabinets (+overhang).

I just remeasured and I have about 115" from the end of the island to the wall. Our table is 44" wide. So that would give me about 35" on either side of the table, so maybe I do need a bit more room on the island side.

One thing I never considered was moving the fridge to the sink wall, but leaving the stove over where it is. This might work.

To be clear, I don't hate the idea of corner cabinets and I think that some form of lazy susan is really the best use if there is to be a corner cabinet. I like the Korner King but I was still looking at that stuff before I got the idea of getting rid of the corner cabinet entirely.

Last, I don't think bumping out the kitchen window is in the cards, since I want to do most of the work myself. Anyway, this is intended to be a remodel to update the space, get rid of the crappy 1985 builder's cabinets, and most of all increase storage efficiency and usage.

Good thing I still in the planning stages! Right now I'm hoping to begin my demo in late spring.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2013 at 12:10AM
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