Kitchen layout HELP!! :/

WhiskyWomanNovember 17, 2013

I need help with ideas for the layout of this kitchen. The room we are dealing with is aprox 21' x 11' . The 42" high bar on the outside of the kitchen area is not yet there but is in the plan for this layout. This is new construction and I can put things wherever I want but I need to keep the plumbing on the inside wall ( or close to the inside of this layout ) not on the outside wall. For the last six months I was comfortable with the layout that put the range on the inside wall (closest to the entry way) with the sink on the same run. Then after months of looking at cabinet arrangements and settling on this I submitted the list for a quote and no sooner did I do that then all of a sudden it didn't feel right. So now I am in limbo again. The space that I have to work with for this kitchen was actually the space that we lived in all winter long for the last 7 years. Boyfriend has built a beautiful house around this existing cabin, so you can imagine how small the kitchen I am used to was. Stove, sink, refer and counter space on one wall in a 13' run. On one hand it seems logical to have the sink right close to the range with some counter space in between on the other it seems logical to put the range on the other side ( still with reservations about having the stove so far from sink). It is an awkward space and I don't want the seating for the sitting bar to stick out into the hallway or dining area so the cabinets will have to be held in from the short wall about 6-9"... Boyfriend likes the idea of stove on the inside wall, every other person that I have asked says put it on the outside wall. I know he lives here and they don't but I also consider this is coming from people who do a lot of cooking and he not so much. I do most all of the cooking myself and all the cleaning. Range is 48", frz/refer is 42" or 44" with cabinet, sink is XTRA large and needs a 48" w x 27" d cabinet and I would like the cabinet fronts to stay in line. Both of us dislike the idea of uneven counter edge. This drawing is not to scale but is a close idea of what I am working with.

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this is the other idea

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 4:08PM
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If venting would not be problem on the inside wall and if loading/unloading the DW would be easy, I would definitely have the sink and the range on the same run. And I do a lot of cooking btw--))

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 8:33PM
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What if you have the fridge/freezer, then range, then prep sink, as you turn the L? The main sink/dishwasher could go on the opposite wall...maybe with a window? :) From Kitchen plans

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 9:05PM
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Hi Lavender , thank you for the input. I will only have the one sink no second sink and all the plumbing has to remain on the inside wall for a couple of reasons. One the water is run through that wall and two it gets very cold here and we don't want it on an outside wall. Also the outside wall where the W.C. and pantry are will not get any light nor have a view of any sort so the point of a window there is moot. The view and light will start at the door further down that wall. Thanks again I appreciate the time anyone takes to look at my conundrum.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2013 at 10:46PM
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Your drawing does not match up to the dimensions you listed. I count 14 squares top to bottom and 17 squares side to side. Going by the DW size, I'm assuming each square represents one foot so that makes the kitchen 14 x 17, not 11 x 21. Is your drawing off or are your stated dimensions off?

What is the space marked "W.C." for? In England, WC means water closet (bathroom) but given its size on the drawing, I'm pretty that's not what your space is for. ;-)

    Bookmark   November 18, 2013 at 12:41AM
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Thanks sena01 , I am not sure how I missed your post there. Yes after much more thought and putting up a "mock" refrigerator I decided that indeed the stove belongs on the inside wall.
lisa_a Thanks for your feedback :) The last sentence of my first post stated that this drawing is not to scale. ( I had to re-read it to make sure ). I have a few other drawings which are to scale but this was just a quick and dirty for the purpose of getting quick and dirty feedback. And yes that WC is exactly that. This was an existing building that we have built around, hence why a WC in the kitchen. Normally no one would put one there but it was already there... so it remains. It is just big enough to house the toilet and my plan is to get one of those cute little sinks that sits atop the tank and runs the fresh water through the faucet then into the tank with each flush;)

    Bookmark   November 20, 2013 at 10:36PM
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Here's an idea that's been rattling around in my head for a bit. I finally found the time to draw it up.

I altered your drawing to match the dimensions you gave us (that helps me visualize and figure measurements, etc). I allowed 4.5" for interior wall depth; I took that dimension into account when figuring out cab sizes, aisle clearances, etc.

I gave you a small, 2-piece powder room. I also flipped the door and placed the toilet so that unless the door is left wide open, the toilet should be hidden from view. You could shrink its interior space to 3' x 6' and enlarge the pantry cab by 6"; best to go with a pedestal sink if you do that (they don't take up as much room as a sink cab).

The 24" side cab perpendicular to the powder room helps hide the powder room as well plus it provides landing space for fridge and pantry items.

I gave you a pull-out pantry cab instead of a walk-in pantry. Pantry cabs take up less room while providing nearly as much storage space. A 42"W x 24"D x 84"H pantry cab will provide 49 cu ft, I estimated that your walk-in pantry (12" deep shelves in 54" x 36' x 84" space) would have provided 59 cu ft of storage. A 48" pantry cab would provide 56 cu. ft of storage). The fridge/freezer is next to the pantry so that all your food items are stored in the same area of the kitchen.

The sink takes up the short leg of the L. I'm assuming that the large sink has its own drain boards on each side of it so you'll have room to put dirty dishes, etc. The 2" between sink cab and DW run denotes a spacer cab.

The DW is perpendicular to the sink cab. I *think* there's enough room to stand at the sink and pivot to put dirty dishes in the DW but without knowing exactly what your sink cab will look like, I can't be sure. I suggest you do a mock-up and see if you need to add a 12" cab to the left of the DW to gain a bit more standing room. That will reduce the cab run between DW and range to 30".

You could also swap sink and DW locations but you wouldn't have as much counter between sink and range for prep work. That also messes up clearances since you would have to pull the sink/range cab run out from the wall to allow for the sink cab's depth.

If you're into symmetry (my husband is, I'll give it up for function), center the range on the wall. That would give you a larger cabinet and more counter space to the range's right, making the set-up even better for multiple cooks to work in your kitchen.

I switched counter seating to be 3 on the 11' side and 2 on the 21' side of the kitchen so that you don't have as many people sitting in the hallway area.

Counter overhang is 15". You can go with 12" but 15" is more comfortable, especially for tall people.

The 39" wide cab under the bar area is a 21" deep cab (standard bathroom depth so not custom depth). That allows you to have the bar counter encroach into the kitchen a bit while keeping the counter even on the side of the DW/range run. The back of the 21" cab (opens towards the hallway) will line up with the fronts of the cabs facing into the kitchen. Does that make sense?

Upper cabs are marked in blue.

Anyhoo, that's what I came up with. If you like my idea, draw it up with accurate room dimensions and doorways in their proper places to see what tweaks you need to make.

Sorry for missing your comment that your drawing wasn't to scale. Guess I was tired when I read your post initially.

I envy your views!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2013 at 5:32PM
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Ok Lisa_a now that you have wasted your precious time trying to help me ( I am greatful and so sorry) I will give some better info... I had kind of thought that the idea might have been dropped as there are so many new posts every day ( boy can I throw a lot of time reading all the stuff on GW). This one is to scale and one square=3". The dark lines are permanent walls, doors and load bearing upright posts and cannot be changed with the exception of the WC and Pantry door swing. With the WC door being so close to the wall I am not sure that a right hand swing would work comfortably. Also there is a second door in that WC that leads into the workshop/mechanical room. That must remain as well so that it can be accessed from outside without have to strip down to get a quick pee in :) That said the other perm fixture now will be the stove. Boyfriend is very adamant that he wants it on the inside wall, likes it more open and like a said before( I think) after putting up a mock refer in that area and taking it down I was amazed at how much light flooded in so nothing tall on that inside wall. I do not plan to have uppers on this side either, nor will there be any thing to obstruct the view out of the kitchen. I need function and symmetry at the same time. I would sacrifice a small amount of function for symmetry. I am just weird that way. Plumbing needs to stay on the inside as well one because it is already there and two because it is easy to keep pipes warm in the winter. Also with as much time as one spends at the sink I don't want to be staring at a wall when I have this incredible view. We pretty much designed this house around the view. Right now I think I am getting close on the layout but my biggest dilemma is the dishwasher placement and whether to have one level of counter across the whole thing or break it up with a upper tier for the peanut gallery. With the dishwasher thing I really didn't want it in between the sink and stove but if I put it on the other side of the L then it moves my sink closer to the stove and puts the faucet (which is just as ginormous as the sink) off center where the peanuts sit ( there is the symmetry thing in me). I would prefer it centered between the posts on either side or at least close to it. Now if I put the sink on the other side of the L I wont have any counter space on the left side of the sink....I haven't figured out how to get multiple photos in one post so I will send a couple strays.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 4:58PM
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This is standing in the living area looking back into the kitchen. You can see the three load bearing post and the bathroom door at the rear with light on pantry is framed up all ready but could be modified a little if needed. BF would prefer to not.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 5:07PM
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another view

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 5:11PM
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pantry and existing WC

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 5:17PM
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This is standing in the entryway/hallway looking toward the water

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 5:21PM
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I guess I could also add that I have 3 pieces of antique furniture that I was going to put in the kitchen instead of built ins then I thought no and now I am going back to yes. I know I am so wishy-washy This piece will definitely go on the far wall as it is about the only thing that will fit and you can't get more perfect than this without having something custom built.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 6:02PM
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This Hoosier I had panned for "the bar" The idea was to have the outside wall go WC-Pantry-Freezer/Refer-Hoosier-Old School House Cabinet

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 6:14PM
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and the old school house cabinet...

    Bookmark   November 26, 2013 at 6:17PM
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