Please check layout for our large family kitchen

laughablemomentsNovember 29, 2013

After weeks of trying to referee rooms that wouldn't stay neatly in their own zones (pantries pushing into coat closets, coat closets bullying basement doors out of their rightful spots, foodstuffs crying because they didn't have enough rooooom to play), I came up with a plan that put the kitchen in time out, errr, I mean in the family room, gave the old kitchen to the dining table, let the entry be a full-fledged entry with 2 closets and gave the basement stairs a full-size door rather than the dwarf-sized door that it has now.

Could you look this over and see what you think? (I know the pantry is a tight squeeze down by the freezers, but it beats trotting down the stairs to the basement by a long shot.)

In summary, we are a family of 9, cook almost entirely from scratch, 3+ meals a day with all of us at home each day, do some canning, bread baking, homeschooling. Buy our grains in bulk. Host large gatherings. Our oldest DD is 13, youngest, almost 2.

We are DIYers, husband is a contractor willing and capable of taking this on. House is a fixer upper that we should close on very soon. We are planning to get a lot of the work done before we move in.

FYI, the top of the drawing faces north.

Insights are much appreciated! : )

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I like it.

Change the door of the bathroom to swing out. So that if the door is left ajar you can't see the toilet.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 4:01PM
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It looks wonderful! This makes so much more sense of your space...and I loved your intro :)

I would not flip the bathroom door, just because if it's open it will block your cute kitchen cut-out.

Do you plan to have a door from the kitchen or desk area, out to the yard? Or is that just off the dining room?

What if you added a chair/ottoman in the reading nook/window seat area? That would be so neat! The piano is perfect and I really like all your sunlight in the kitchen. Maybe glass uppers by the sink? It would lighten that area, but whatever you decide...I REALLY LOVE THIS VERSION!!!

I should have you help me with my design! Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving :)

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Fri, Nov 29, 13 at 17:28

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 5:03PM
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I found your post from a couple of weeks back. The design sure has evolved! I find this much more workable than the kitchen in the center. Hopefully others will chime in.

One thing I'd note, having just been through T-day with an extended table. I think your graph paper design is a better representation of the dining table required to sit 9 on a regular basis. The 3D version seems a bit small. If it is that wide, I'd consider flipping the opening and the passthrough into the kitchen. This would keep the traffic flow around the table versus a bit of an obstacle course. I think the 3D version is giving the illusion of more of a direct shot into the kitchen, when in reality the end of the table will be in the way. (You may be able to edit the properties of the table object and expand it to the real size).

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 6:04PM
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I'm definitely not an expert when it comes to room planning but I like what you have. I'm confused as to how large your dining table will be though. On your graph paper, it looks like you have a table for 12, but the table in your electronic plan only seats 6. Will you have enough space for a large table?

We have a 9 ft table that comfortably seats 8 -10 and then comfortably seats 14 with two 18" leaves. At 12' long with the leaves, it's a bit too large for the room so those only come out when we're hosting a large party (like yesterday for Thanksgiving).

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 6:42PM
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I like the kitchen, but agree with gooster that the dining area might be an obstacle course. And some people aren't keen on bathrooms directly off the dining room (you might not be one of those people!). An idea: how about switching the bathroom to open to the right, where you have bookshelves now? Then move the piano either to the wall where the bathroom door was, or down to where you have the window seat. Putting it where you have the window seat would get it most out of the way of traffic, but would cost you the window seat/reading nook, which I love. But if you did that, you could move your sideboard on the wall where the bathroom door was, thus loosening up the whole dining area for traffic passage.

(I haven't seen your previous thread, so apologize if you've already explained why these changes wouldn't work for you!)

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 7:11PM
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As a mother of seven at home, I think you should consider 2 full size sinks. I see that you have 2 dishwashers which you will need. I would also forgo the 2 ranges and do a 48" range. I am not crazy about a bathroom right off the dining room. I think that is kind of gross. I would find an alternative to that.

    Bookmark   November 29, 2013 at 9:41PM
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How exciting to come and see all of this feedback. : )

Thanks for your vote DebraK. I'm glad you like it. : )

Let me explain about the bathroom since I didn't give details about the original floorplan in either of my threads. The previous owners were in the process of remodeling the home when it went on the market. One of the things they remodeled was the downstairs bathroom, which turned out beautifully. Although it's location is a bit unusual, I honestly don't know what they could have done differently. There currently is a hall by the bathroom door, but if we get rid of that hall wall, it really opens the floorplan up. I know not everyone is comfortable with the bathroom in such a public location, but we will have more private facilities upstairs for those who would prefer a more remote location. : )

Here are a few shots. It's hard to get a good picture of a bathroom

Lavender Lass, your words are very encouraging. Putting a comfy chair and an ottoman in the reading nook sounds nice and cozy. : ) That room has great light. Here's a picture of the area: I picture using this as an extra spot to set up a narrow table when we have lots of folks over. The space might be a bit small for our whole family to eat in which is why I was looking for alternative places for dining.

I don't think I'd put a door from the kitchen or the pantry to the outdoors. The drop off is pretty severe on the west end and south end of the house. There is a nice patio on the north west. I think moving the sliding door toward the middle of the house will actually give us more usable space on the patio, since the current (slippery, awful) stairs are chewing up a large portion of the patio.

I'd definitely like to have glass doored cabinets somewhere in this kitchen. I'm looking forward to nailing the floorplan down so that we can start working on the fun details.

Awww, I'd love to take a peek at your layout sometime, Lavender. : ) Thanks!

Wow, Gooster, thanks for looking up my old post. Having enough dining space is a big concern. The graph paper version of the table is much more accurate.

My pokey-hokey old architect program is limited on its table options, so I picked the one most like what we have and stree-eee-tched it as big as I dared. But it doesn't add the extra chairs, which I think added to the confusion, Juddgirl. Do you own my dream table? : )

I'm trying to figure out whether it's worth zigzagging a bit around the fully extended table to gain the kitchen space. Hmmmmmm.... Now the table wants in on the tug-o-war for space.

Thanks for chiming in Flying C. For reasons stated above, I think we'll leave the bathroom as is, but it's always good to mention ideas. You never know what they may spark! : ) I'm glad you like the window seat, too.

Michellemarie, hello fellow mommy of seven! : ) Two full size sinks is a good idea. Are you meaning to consider changing the prep sink to a full-sizer? As in a 33" or a 24" or...?

We're pretty set on sticking with 2 30" stoves, unless a gorgeous free 48" mysteriously appears at our front door one morning. Then I suppose I wouldn't refuse it. ; ) I've spent quite a few hours comparing stove options, and comparing $ for uses, the pricier stoves just don't make sense to us. The cost is a large jump for small gains in our eyes. ( I think I went into more detail on this in my last thread.)

Thank you all.

So, now my niggling questions are:

1. Does it make sense to zig-zag around the table to gain a dream kitchen?

2. Am I going to feel connected enough to the rest of the house from the kitchen? This is one of the things I liked about the original home's layout with the kitchen in the middle. If we were designing a traditional kitchen with 1 of each appliance it would have been fine, but trying to add in all the extras made it a bit (a lot!) challenging.

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts with me! : )

Here are a few shots of the current kitchen just for fun. I was relieved the previous owners hadn't gotten to the remodeling of the space yet. Phew, now we can start fresh.

View from front door:

(Again, pardon the mess. The owners were in the process of moving out and didn't care about cleaning it up for showing.)

Finally here is the current Floorplan:

Here is a link that might be useful: Laughable's Previous thread on the layout for this house

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 11:47AM
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I don't think the table will be that much of an issue...or zig zag. If you swap the doorway and cut-out in the kitchen, you also walk into the island and have to zig zag through the kitchen. Which would be less annoying? That would be my choice :)

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 12:26PM
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It's a wonderful new space! My DMIL, also mom to 7, would have LOVED to have had that kitchen (or the existing one, for that matter), especially the refrigerator space, and she used her chest freezer to great advantage.

Do you need a desk area in the pantry? You might be able to use that space better as cabinets, and maybe have a light counter-height stool/stepstool (to reach the high cupboards, too).

Where will you keep your broom and damp mop? If you don't want to put in a broom closet, perhaps on the back of the refrigerator wall? That wall will be very handy for flat storage! How about pegboard there?

In the reading nook, perhaps a low round table with a tuck-under footstool or two that could be a "kids table" for gatherings or even a cozy evening tea spot.

If you turn the dining table on a diagonal, would it be less of a zig-zag to walk through the house? You could always turn it straight when you need to expand it for gatherings.

I think the kitchen feels very connected, great viewing and love the little "window" next to the doorway. It's really coming together :)

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 12:33PM
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Old houses have bathrooms off kitchens and other public areas. We have one and its not the issue many think it is. If you do change the swing of the door I think you will find it will be in the almost closed position most of the time. A friend has two bathrooms like that and naturally everyone, kids too, leave the door just slightly ajar. If you can't/don't want to change the swing I think that is ok too. I didn't know the bath was already done.

For the prep sink, I would think about how you everyone will use that sink. Will it be used to fill pots of water, wash veg., etc? That would determine the size. Our family is smaller than yours but when I wash and cut veggies and such I like a big sink but thats just me.

Are you using the desk in the pantry as an office area?

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 12:47PM
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Good question, Lavender. I think we'd choose a little extra zigging and zagging to gain the southern light in the kitchen. I just hope I'm not underselling myself on table space. You know, one of those, I had the space for a huge table and I threw it away for a giant kitchen, regrets.

Thanks for calling it a wonderful new space, bpathome. I think of my dear grandma who had 6 kids and cooked Sunday dinners for a hungry crowd of 30 people for years and years and never fussed about her deplorable layout, inadequate storage, and appliances purchased through the swap sheet. I'm sure she would have enjoyed a space like this too. I remember her humming as she happily baked cookies for all of us. The love pats Grandad would give her as he passed by her stirring at the stove, good memories. I hope I can be half the cook and example of contentment that she was.

I would like to have a desk space in the pantry. I tend to be a piler, so that might help hide it nicely. We could also use a quiet spot to make phone calls or do some paperwork. I've looked at Nini804's office space in her pantry and Willow Decor's pantry for inspiration. Nini's is linked below and I'll link Willow's in my next post. (Not sure why some of her pics ended up sideways...)

So yes, the pantry would be storage and workspace combined.

Brooms and damp mops? Oh no! I nearly forgot about storing them. Thanks for bringing that up. We don't have a cleaning closet in our current home. So, let's plan one in... Where else could it go? Maybe in part of the hutch???? In our current home, the brooms and mops hang on the back of the basement door, so I suppose that could work in the new house, if necessary.

I have plans for the back wall of the fridges: Shallow canning storage, 1 jar deep. Nothing should get lost this way. : ) Something like this:

Oooh, I like the idea of a low table and little stools for a kid spot in the nook. Nice!

I'd have to try the table at an angle and see...

Thanks for explaining the door and bath situation, debrak. I'm pretty much a-ok with the bathroom and door the way it is. Like you said, in old houses, you work with what's there sometimes. (In my eyes, it beats running out to a johnny house! LOL We'd have loads of fresh air and privacy, but it could be a cold trip to get there (cold seat, too!))

We do all that you do with the prep sink, plus use it to wash up some of the pots and pans after a big meal. I'm thinking maybe a 24" would be a good compromise. Any bigger and I'm afraid we'd miss the counter space.

Here is a link that might be useful: Nini804's office in the pantry

This post was edited by laughable on Sat, Nov 30, 13 at 17:22

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 5:13PM
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Here's Willow Decor's Pantry and desk area. Beautiful, and quite a bit fancier than what I picture us doing. Inspiring, none the less. : )

Here is a link that might be useful: Willow Decor's Pantry

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 5:24PM
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I've seen Willow's pantry a lot, and just sigh over it. I could store all my crystal, Grandma's crystal, Mom's crystal, the china (with all the accompanying bits), and simply stand in there and gaze LOL! Goodness knows my own family of males don't appreciate it all...

I am a firm believer in some shallow pantry shelves for cans etc, 1 or 2 cans deep so you can FIND stuff thank you very much :) I like your pic (except for the cans laying sideways? I don't think so!), it looks like it's "between the studs". Make your shelves adjustable, though, definitely.

You still may have room for a broom and a couple of cloths hanging back there, or magnetically to the freezers?

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 6:13PM
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I LOVE that between the studs can storage!!

Those sideways cans would fall on my TOES every time I went by, lol!!!

Laughable, I think that kitchen looks lovely!


    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 6:28PM
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laughable: I was just suggesting that the pass through opening (3 feet) and counter with the fruit baskets could slide to the other end of the opening. I was concerned the chairs (and not just the table) would be getting in the way as the 7 kids rounded the corner from the main entry/stairs and LR to the snacks and fridge. (maybe slowing them down is a good thing!) You would have to shimmy now a bit more to get around the island, but the aisle is wider and the diversion less than routing around the two end chairs (empty, let alone with all 9 people sitting down for family dinner).

Perhaps you were thinking of opening up the whole area, which would cause you to loose some storage.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 7:15PM
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laughable - I'm not sure if I own your dream table, but it's definitely my dream table :-) It's the 9ft salvaged pine trestle table from Restoration Hardware, with a Monocoat oil finish. So far, indestructible with my messy family and great for seating large groups.

What Architect program do you use for your layout? I'm trying to draft a layout for my kitchen remodel and am struggling getting everything to scale using pencil and graph paper (my division skills aren't so great, apparently!)

I like your pantry idea, although the one in the picture seems a bit shallow.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 8:55PM
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I like the kitchen but so sure about the dining area. Would moving the pantry to the bottom wall and removing (if possible??) the wall b/w kitchen and dining make any difference?

I came up with this. Don't know how wise it is with seven kids but just added a panel in front of the bath door.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 10:06PM
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Sorry, I haven't read through, but wanted to toss out this idea:
- I would put the kitchen where the pantry is, to be opened next to the diningroom table.
put the breakfast nook where you design the DWs/sink w/ the nice southern sun.

I suggest this because w/ a large family having to walk around the DR table and then the large pantry... you need an open space.

just a thought,

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 10:26PM
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Ah: yup, just what sena posted.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2013 at 10:40PM
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Yes, the in-between studs pantry needs adjustable shelves, bpathome! The sideways cans are proof of that. (I didn't catch those sideways cans. I think I was too taken by the cute wrapping paper and ribbon storage. ; ) )

Thanks for your encouraging words, Nancy!

Gooster, I did misunderstand what you were saying. Thanks for coming back and clarifying! I get it now. : )

What we have going on there is this: The end room was an addition, which you can see a little better if you look at the exterior shot above. The tree branches are blocking it a bit, but the portion that is sided in white is where I'm thinking of putting the kitchen. The floor of this room is stepped down from the main house, and has a lower ceiling than the rest of the main house. (Main house, 9+ ft, ceilings, end room, 8 ft. ceiling). The spot I labeled as a place for fruit baskets has a structural post in it. The window was my "clever" work-around. ; ) We need that post because it is the end of a load bearing wall that supports the upstairs of the main portion of the house. Currently, this is where the hall by the bathroom attaches to the end room. Rather than have a 3' opening right next to a wide archway, I filled it in a little to gain a bit of storage and a bit of unique architecture. Hope this makes sense, it's kind of hard to explain.

Those are quite the tables, Juddgirl. I had fun looking at their designs. So you are happy with the Monocoat? I was researching that a while back. Have you had berry juice spill on your table and did it survive without staining? (I ask because a friend of mine did Monocoat on her floor but I think she had some trouble with a few things staining it.) I'd love for us to build our own table. That part would be relatively easy. It's the finish I'm having trouble figuring out. I don't know how to find something that compares to a catalyzed finish for home usage.

I've found it easier to start my planning on graph paper. For a whole house, I do 1 square= 1 ft. For a single room, 1 square = 3 inches works pretty well. I darken the lines of the graph paper with a pencil and ruler and then make multiple copies on our photocopier. And draw with abandon, pencil in one hand, eraser in the other, and a white-out pen in the third. Well, not quite, but close. ; ) Once I have a few designs I'd like to pursue, I put them into the 3D program. Each way has value.

Thanks for your input, Amanda, and thanks Sena for drawing that up! :O Wow. What program do you use to make your drawings? I'm using Broderbund 3D Home Architect 4.0, which is quite old. It only runs on our ancient laptop, which is s-l-o-w, and I half expect it to crash every time I use it. It's been a great program, but it might be time to look for something new. The newer versions of it got lousy ratings on Amazon. : (

That's really helpful to be able to compare both kitchen layouts. I think we might actually like the kitchen at the South end better. I don't know, I kind of get a cafeteria feel from the North end kitchen and a homier feel with the distinction of spaces that the south end one offers. Plus, southern light in the kitchen, priceless.

Unfortunately, we can't spin the table that way. The poor person's chair at the end nearest the kitchen would fall down the step.

Thanks for your comments, everyone. : )

    Bookmark   December 1, 2013 at 9:14AM
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Laughable, I just want to say how much I enjoy your writing. You have a terrific style :) I'm going to imagine you tapping away in your own "away" spot in your new pantry!

    Bookmark   December 1, 2013 at 2:04PM
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laughable - I've found the Monocoat finish to be very durable. We've had juice, wine, chocolate sauce, and marinara spills and no staining. Water also beads up on the surface. It is due for a refresher coat on the tabletop though.

That's a good idea to darken the lines of the graph paper, since they don't show up very well on copies. I just posted my proposed layout last night but I'll try to get a better scaled drawing and update the post. Using 3" per square might work better than the 4-8" I was using before.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2013 at 6:16PM
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Good for you for working hard here in the layout stage, it will pay terrific dividends for a long time!
Once your layout is set, think about exactly what goes where, consider glass front cabinets for everyday glasses if you want visiting guests to find and help themselves. Consider the reach of children when planning places for things that they will be frequently unloading from the dishwasher.
Did you factor in the cost of two hoods for your two stoves? If they were side by side, you could have just one. Would one 36" be enough? I can't quite picture myself tending burners on separated stoves at the same time.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2013 at 8:14PM
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A few more ideas for the DR. Hope no one would fall down the step this time-))

What if you have large windows and a door on the left instead of sliding doors?

This could give the opportunity to keep the table in front of the windows when it's 11 people or just your family, so that the traffic from the entry may be eased somewhat. I also moved the entry closets to the stairs wall.

The program I'm using is Home Designer Suite btw.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2013 at 7:52AM
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I would also have the stoves side by side. I can't picture myself going back and forth between the two, stirring something on one burner, then having to go back to the other stove, etc., keeping an eye on everything.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2013 at 11:07AM
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Awww, thanks for the kind words, bpathome. I think you just made my week. : )

Thank you for getting back to me about the Monocoat, juddgirl. I've been watching for your updated drawings. ; )

Thank you for redrawing the kitchen, Sena. A window and door could be a possibility. Homedisigner Suite. Great, thanks for getting back to me. : )

Maybe we should set up the dining room restaurant style with 2 tables, that way we could walk down the middle between the 2 of them, LOL. I love this kitchen design, but the dining room conundrum is making me a little bit batty.

Good point, karlsmom. I want a slip of set space between the 2, but it could certainly be reduced. (Rollerskating between the 2 stoves ought to be avoided, right.)

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 1:16PM
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Laughable- Here's a quick sketch...with ranges slightly closer together, little table and chairs by window seat, door to patio, and wall shifted over in kitchen. Would this work? :)

Also, how difficult would it be to raise kitchen/pantry up, so that it's even with dining room level? I'm more aware of universal access, just thought I'd ask. From Kitchen plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Tue, Dec 3, 13 at 18:10

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 6:07PM
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I like this latest version by lavendar, though I think I would try to find another spot for the piano so the dining room has more breathing room and you can easily get by the chairs when someone is seated. Perhaps somewhere in the small sitting area? You may need to close things off a tad to get more wallspace.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 7:34PM
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Thanks, Valinsv! What about piano in hallway, next to closet? That would create more space in the dining room...and imagine decorating the entry, at Christmas! Evergreens on the stair rail and decorations on the piano :) From Kitchen plans

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 8:59PM
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This dining room is turning out to be a toughy. I toyed around with flopping the 1/2 wall storage North, too, Lavender. It does helps with the traffic flow from the entry to the kitchen...then it turns around and kills the traffic flow from the fridges and snack zone to the table! I'm wondering if we should just do a bit of a goofy arch with 2 openings and eliminate the half wall storage area all together??? I liked my little window, but maybe it's not worth the aggravation to the flow.

Hey, hey, hey, no messin' with my entry closet, now miss Lavender Lass! ; ) LOL. Seriously, though, we really do need that closet there. We live in snow country so there is a lot of gear for all of us to get out and put away each day. It's not all going to fit prettily in a 6' closet.

Thanks for chiming in, Valinsv. : )

How Lavender stuck the piano in the entry did give me another possibility for where the piano could go. What about where I have the bench by the front door? We could pull the bench out for when we need to sit to do shoes and push it in when done. It's an electric piano, so it's on the petite side, and it wouldn't be affected by drafts. The kids love to have daddy play at night when they go to bed, this would really help the sound to carry upstairs. : )

Our current table is 4' wide by 7' long, a giant oval. I have a feeling we're going to outgrow it, but it does fit better in the plan than my pretend 10' sketched one fits. Good idea on 2 lights for that long table. Hadn't thought about that, that one chandelier might not light the whole thing!

Lavender, your question about universal design is a very good one, especially after the health challenges that your husband has faced this year. If we raise the floor up, it puts the ceiling at less than 8'. Hmmmm.... Not that that's a horrible thing, but with how high the ceilings are in the rest of the house, I'm wondering if you'd feel like you were stepping into a hobbit kitchen.

Good thoughts and questions. Thanks!

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 9:52PM
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Wait, it's an electric piano? So you could have it anywhere? Well, then: first thought, in the nook, with bookshelves surrounding it? A bench could do double-duty as a table and vice versa. Or in the DR where it was, with storage above. LR by the woodstove? Longish bench that could be seating, too. My DMIL uses an old kitchen chair at her piano (two chairs for duets). Or, upstairs! Anyone practicing while others are sleeping can wear their headphones.

    Bookmark   December 3, 2013 at 10:06PM
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laughable - I just updated my original post with my new drawings. Thanks for the tip on darkening the lines of the graph paper. I was able to do a general layout and make several copies with the lines showing, so I can use these as templates!

That's a tough call re cutting your half storage wall. I have a similar half wall of cabinets opening up into the great room. They're nice both to use as storage and also to create a separation between the great room and kitchen, but the custom cabinetmaker who came out to measure suggested eliminating them to open up the entrance to the kitchen. I'm considering that, or just making it a shorter run than it's current 70" width. I have a hard time giving up storage though!

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 1:54AM
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Okay, I put the closet back....we won't touch the closets! LOL

I know you like the south light in the kitchen, but what about a big window facing the patio/deck? Then you could maybe have a greenhouse window in the pantry/office, for starting seedlings in the spring...if you garden.

It seems almost too open with no wall between kitchen and dining I put in a half wall with column/post on each end. You could have shallow storage/shelves on dining room side or pantry on kitchen side. It would also give you a place to set things down by the table (extra plates, platters, etc.) and still let more light flow between rooms.

The piano might be too crowded at the bottom of the stairs, so I put it back in the dining room. Maybe the bench could be additional seating, when needed?

Just a few ideas...and I'm missing the garden already (we live in snow country, too) so I added a few flowers :) From Kitchen plans

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 2:26AM
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Oh, and a hobbit kitchen might not be so has a lot of charm :) From Lavender Lass farmhouse pictures

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 2:57PM
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LOL!!!! As long as there's no beard hairs in my soup!

I worked on my computer program with the new plan you drew up, but I don't have time to upload it til later. Must feed family.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 6:52PM
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That's a nice idea, LL; all is open to all, yet has a little separation, too :), and there's "circulation" through the kitchen with the half-wall.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 7:09PM
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Sorry if this was already mentioned. The outside door from dining area. Could that be made into a slider so you would not have to be concerned with swing room? I have a french door off my kitchen now instead of the slider and miss the slider.

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 7:12PM
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To follow up from earlier:
So glad the idea for darkening the lines worked for you Juddgirl. That simple task really freed my kitchen drawings up when my DH suggested that solution to me (Isn't he brilliant? ; ))

Bpathome, I was thinking similarly, that the piano bench could be pulled into double duty for when we have big groups over. I'd like to keep the piano downstairs since we all like to sing together sometimes.

I like the wall design that Lavender came up with. I think that is what was missing earlier when we (Hi Sena!) tried putting the kitchen in the north.

I rearranged the wall to the pantry a little. Reason is the window that's already installed (brand new) on the south end. I'd like the door to the pantry to open directly across from the window. It might be nice to not have to move the window. I have a full glass French style door that I've been saving for just such a time as this. It would be so neat to have it be the door to the pantry, and could still let some of that light into the kitchen.

I also played around with some colors just for fun.

Debrak, I think you are onto something with the slider vs. a swinging door. My parents had a French door when I was growing up and that swinging door caused many problems when it was open.

Here are some screen shots of the plan the way Lavender Lass drew it up earlier (Thanks, Lavender, and I'm sooo glad you left my closets alone, ahem. ; ))

"Glass" uppers like kksmama mentioned:
Or without:

The reason I don't want to move the closets to the opposite side of the entryway. : )

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 8:04PM
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Oh, but you forgot the flowers

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 8:17PM
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LOL! Pretty :)

I was thinking flowers on the outside with the patio below. Something like this? From Kitchen plans

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 8:57PM
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Beautiful, both of you! : )

    Bookmark   December 4, 2013 at 9:58PM
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Wait, what ?? Is this a new house ? Did you ever do the remodel in the old house ? I'm so confused !!

    Bookmark   December 6, 2013 at 8:21PM
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You might want to look again at the pantry wall arrangement. You USE the pantry and the refs when cooking. In the current arrangement, the pantry entrance is centered for no particular reason - making it further to travel for the cook. The refrigerator is a good 12-15 feet around the island to main prep.

Also, forgive me, but the pantry just looks like a collection of miscellaneous stuff shoved in there instead of a storage pantry. The reality of a desk like that is no one will use it because its dark, cramped and not fun to be rolling back in the chair and smacking into the open door or the extra ref/frz. Then too, the ref door will not open all the way and the doored cabinet on the shared bath wall can't be opened. Even if you do something like use sliding doors, you won't be able to use the stuff in the area by the side of the ref because you won't be able to reach it.

Try not turning the corner between the range wall and pantry wall with cabinets. Put the entrance to the pantry there instead, then do refs and then do counter to the doorway to the dining room. One of those cabinets could double as a standing desk.

Then try shelving around the "U" shap of the longer part of the pantry for storage ending in the blank ref. Keep cabinets along the left hand short wall and maybe a crate space with counter over it facing what is now the doorway. Start or finish the "U" with the extra ref/freezer.

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 5:17AM
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We've abandoned this plan. Rrrrrrrrrrrrrr....crash.

The gluttonous pantry has got to go.

We're back to trying to fit the kitchen in the middle room where it was originally located.

There are so many parts and pieces to try to figure out. We'd like to keep the big room open for a family room and/or dining area.

My brain feels like a soggy marshmallow held in the hand of a two year old. For way too long.

Thanks for evaluating this plan, Bmore.

Yes Angela, we are in the process of buying a different house. When our farmhouse kitchen is finished, I'll post it for you all to see. : ) (No, it isn't quite done yet.)

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 11:56AM
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I'm just going to say it...since your husband can do so much construction, could you move that bathroom to the other side of the house? I know it's fairly new, but I think it would make SUCH a difference to your layout and give you more southern light!

If the bathroom and basement access were on the same side, that would give you a nice layout for living room, kitchen, dining room.

Why the switch for kitchen and dining? Do you want more view and light out the back? Could you use a banquette on one side, to help with seating?

Let us know what's possible and we'll give you some more ideas! :)

Here's a quick sketch...would something like this work? Oh, and still missing my garden (it's finally up to 10 degrees today) so I added more plants! LOL From Kitchen plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Sat, Dec 7, 13 at 19:53

    Bookmark   December 7, 2013 at 1:34PM
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Thanks for giving it another shot, Lavender. DH is not interested in moving the bathroom, so that won't be a possibility.

Here are some flowers for you, though. : ) My daughter grew gladiolas this summer. This was one of the bouquets she photographed. Enjoy!

    Bookmark   December 8, 2013 at 8:49AM
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Thanks for the flowers! They're beautiful :)

Can you keep the pantry and move it to the end of the dining room? Something like this? From Kitchen plans

This post was edited by lavender_lass on Mon, Dec 9, 13 at 15:51

    Bookmark   December 9, 2013 at 3:45PM
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Laughable- You know, I realize that the desk takes up space and some people may question it...but I can see why you really need it! My MIL has nine kids and they lived in a small house. She said you need a space, just for you. Where you can close the door and keep everyone out, long enough to concentrate on something...anything! LOL

I think you should keep your space, if at all possible. Yes, there's storage in there, too...which you need. But, there's also the potential for a sunny south window, maybe a few plants on the sill, and a DOOR to keep little ones out (if only for a few minutes) while you pay a bill, plan a menu, or just have a moment's peace while visiting all of us on Gardenweb!

I'm sure you love your family (don't we all?) but everyone needs a little space to call their own. That's what Sarah Susanka says in the 'Not So Big House' books...and I hope you find enough room to keep your space :)

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 1:48PM
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I don't know if you need a sink in the pantry or not but with the bathroom right next door, it would not be hard to do the plumbing. I can't see the pantry area clearly to see what you have there.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 2:07PM
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Oh, I remember... you are the two stove lady!

Will have to come back and read the whole thing but my first thought for the bathroom was 'pocket door'. I just like pocket doors but it might be neat for that little bathroom. And maybe quieter, if you catch my drift.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2013 at 7:24PM
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