Vertical Asymmetry and MW placement

autumn.4November 2, 2013

Sorry folks - one more (I can't promise it's the last) question regarding the MW this time.

Our MW is not a space saver - it would fit in an 18" deep cabinet though. We have looked at putting in in the base cab and we really think it would irk us every single day. So I am willing to spring for that 1 cab to be custom depth.

Anyhow - KD's 1 & 2 have it planned in the uppers with the base shelf flush with the bottom of the upper next to it. That looks 'normal' to me.

KD #3 wants it to go in an 18" upper but have that upper go to the counter. It would have one drawer underneath of it. I understood when she was explaining it the first time we sat down but now that I've seen it....well it's totally putting me off. The base cab underneath is much wider and I think it would bug me. She insists it would not and it will be fine - that IRL my eye will not see it. There will be landing/counter space in front of that drawer.

Here is the quick software sketch.

What do you all think? Wonky? Am I worried about nothing? I have google gardenweb searched but haven't found much. Breezy's is symmetrical to her lowers. Michelle16's looks like it splits the difference of the base and therefore looks symmetrical in that regard. Taggies is completely symmetrical.

Real life pictures of this set up asymmetrically anyone?

For some reason this does not bother me near as much (paint mock up):

Here is the range wall - the cabs are too tight to the window and the roll outs base cabs she is changing to drawers but what I am calling attention to is the cabinet down to the counter is the same width as the base cabinet below it. It is 'soothing' to my eye. The dims are being adjust also to a 30", 36", 30" range, 36", 9" spice pullout then corner susan.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Thank you.


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You are unlikely to see the difference in width- have the kd show you perspectives from real locations within the space to judge what you will see and what you won't. Similarly unless you have along point of view to the range wall you will not see the difference between the two base cabinets-it's a kitchen, not a building façade, elevations are deceptive.
Still, I prefer the micro NOT to the counter- more counter, better landing for the micro and the other choice the bottom of the doors don't align.

What does bother me though is that the micro is so close to the fridge panel on the side that opens - you may wish to put a 3" filler or ear there to improve access to the interior. That will narrow the other wall cabinet and I'd consider blind walls in that case.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 2:20PM
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jakuvall-when you say 'improve access to the interior" are you saying the interior of the cupboard above the MW or interior of the fridge?

When you say 'blind walls'...well I'm not sure what that means at all. A blind corner cabinet?

We do have room - we are opting to use a refrigerator end panel instead of framing out a wall so that gives us a few more inches to play with.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 2:34PM
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Interior of the microwave when the door is open- the door swings toward you in this layout.
Blind walls+blind corners- I don't mind them for wall cabinets. Actually often prefer them- less $, better access and the business of accessing the corner is there is simply emotional IMO. But if you have some play in the fridge and want the pie cut wall corner then not an issue-

I'd be proposing blinds to my client as an option and calculate the accessible frontage and shelf space though. Where I do think you "see" things is in the uppers and in proportions- I'd prefer a double door cab to the right of the window.

Again-have them show you perspectives from within the room (often KD's shoot the picture from a place where you can't actually stand IRL to give you a total picture and you don't get to see what you will see.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 2:49PM
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edit: Would you move the MW to the corner but on the fridge wall so it would open to a wall or would that look and feel stupid?

I did have one KD design it with the upper on the fridge wall being a blind corner. I wasn't opposed but thought an 'easy reach' might be better? That said I am somewhat concerned about the piano hinge door hitting other doors...I would not be pleased with that and my boys are not the most gentle with things at their ages.

So you are saying with a blind corner cab you really aren't losing that much space? I'm not sure what I'd put in there - maybe nothing? This kitchen is quite a bit larger than what I am accustomed to.

I do not like diagonal uppers - been there done that and it's a dark pit of who knows what.

That cab is 24" wide - and I am torn on that as well - 1 vs. 2 doors. However - if I did away with the easy reach I think it would be a different dimension and that might solve that issue altogether.

I also had at one time decided on a dead corner for the base to have all drawers but have since thrown the super susan back in because I think it would be perfect for flour, sugar, oils, etc..

Ah, got it - makes sense about the perspectives. Once I actually CHOOSE a cabinet line and KD I will do that. I am down to Shiloh, Medallion and Showplace. Waiting on the showplace quote - should receive it today. I am nervous and no this isn't rocket science but it kind of feels like it is!

This post was edited by Autumn.4 on Sat, Nov 2, 13 at 15:15

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 3:09PM
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Are either of these more functional due to door swing?

I really love Michelle16's 'gray wall of cabinets' but I realize I don't quite have that space or layout....

Middle with ~12" uppers flanking - maybe open shelving above for cookbooks, a couple of picture frames?:

Left side - butting up to the corner:

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 3:28PM
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I agree that you would never notice the asymmetry between the uppers and lowers in real life, but I don't like the to the counter cabinet with the MW there. It shuts in in and takes away from the landing space.

Whoever designed the last one should be eliminated. The corner cabinet cannot open correctly with a deeper than normal cabinet like a MW cab next to it. I prefer the one with the MW in between the two cabinets. It will give it a nice hutch effect, and it will be easier to access. It's a good spot to store drinking glasses or plastic containers for leftovers, and those easily occupy a narrower cabinet without having to worry about if it's too narrow.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 3:38PM
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green-the last one meaning the very last pic? That would be ME (as you can tell I didn't miss my calling as a KD)! I am messing in paint to see what would work better, if anything. I really don't like it down to the counter either but she was pretty insistent and I think it might be because her own at home is just like it. Sigh. She was also pretty keen on a spice pull out but I don't think I'd like it. I would prefer a drawer and I think I have plenty of them.

So big question - even if the cabs were 12" that is not too narrow (they are only 39" tall and shaker so not too busy)? I think Michelle's are 15 maybe but they are also inset and mine are not. I was going to store coffee cups, creamer and the like there so I am excited you think it would be just fine.

I hope she doesn't mind. This is Michelle's that I love.
It would be similar to this without going to the counter with them and of course the MW in there:

And - thank you Jakuvall and Green. I appreciate your keen eye and honesty.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 4:01PM
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I am going to file this vertical asymmetry issue under "stuff I'm glad I never knew to worry about when I was doing my kitchen". :-)

Totally agree with GreenDesigns that you will never see it in real life. I never realized mine was like you described until just now when reading your description, and our kitchen has been finished for almost two years now.

Edit -- oops, just realized I posted the same pic twice -- edit to fix that above...

This post was edited by taggie on Sat, Nov 2, 13 at 17:14

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 4:51PM
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taggie - well all I can say is point taken. I find it hilarious that I had that EXACT picture of yours clipped as an example of symmetry - totally focused on the MW side and didn't even notice the cabs on the other side. So I guess this is the perfect example of over analyzing and NO - I likely will not notice once it's done. :)

Thank you for posting that.


    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 6:59PM
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Autumn..Good luck with you decision. I'll be curious to see how the different brands price out. For me, Shiloh was the least expensive, then Showplace and Medallion was the highest. Pricing can be all over the board. There was a $2500 spread on Shiloh pricing between all dealers.

In another thread I mentioned Shiloh paint with brushing and you said that you didn't see it. I've attached a picture of a door with it.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 9:28PM
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Thanks for the pic. I am not to the point of zeroing in on added finishing but glad that at lest with Shiloh there is no upcharge. Interesting on the $2500 spread. We only have one dealer near that I am aware of so no way to compare.

Medallion KD applied the current promotion discounts and tightened up a lot. The quote looks really good BUT they are not plywood boxes as Shiloh and Showplace are so not entirely apples to apples. I like the KD though. ...

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 9:57PM
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Shiloh does charge for the brushing. It a 10% up charge in addition to the 10% up charge for paint. A couple of years ago they didn't charge for the brushing.

Shiloh plywood box is a 1/2", while Showplace box is 3/8" . You can upgrade to a 1/2" box. According to one of the kd on here, it's a minor up charge.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2013 at 10:26PM
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