Will I hate tile floor? + other tile questions...

rhome410October 31, 2012

Backstory: As I mentioned in a thread about Marmoleum Click, we are taking ours out and looking for another alternative. Under serious consideration is LVT planks. But installed, it'd be about $7/sq ft. We are terminal DIYers (we built approx 95% of our house), but DH is over-, over-booked for the foreseeable future, and I'd like my floor put back together in this decade. ;) After DH helped them get started, our boys did our Marmoleum Click, but I read that the vinyl planks are tougher to put together, and just thought a pro crew would be the best bet.

I had also considered the bulletproofness of porcelain tile, until I saw that the tile I was interested in was $7/sq ft, plus $6.50/sq ft installation... So had ruled it out, because of price, in addition to the complaints of hardness.

Now: Sunday I stopped at Lowes and found much less expensive tile and the wheels began to turn again. So here are my questions:

1) Will I hate tile floors? I've never had them. I'm 52, so am heading into an age in which things like hard floors might be a problem? We have 8 kids (mostly teens), large dogs, cats... a busy house and extremely busy kitchen.

2) Are tile floors a reasonable DIY project, or is there WAY more to getting it in and precisely flat than I imagine? Our sons and I have worked on backsplashes and our 48" x 64" inset, penny-round tile 'rug' in our entry, but not a whole floor. And our Marmoleum covers not only our large kitchen, but our back hall and utility/sewing room, so about 1200 sq ft. (We just built our house 5 yrs ago, and it is extremely plumb, flat, etc... We have floor joists with plywood sub floor)

3) Is there a difference in the quality of tiles that warrant a $7/sq ft price over $2/sq ft? I am only considering those that are porcelain and rectified.

Thanks so much.

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I'm not a tile expert but I do know there is such a think called "coefficient of friction".(COF) - normally you only worry about this in wet areas such as the shower but you might at least know what it is for the tile you choose. If I remember right, you want it at least greater than .5 - probably better if you google "coefficient of friction" for more info.

One place where tile can be tricky is with waterproofing. And this is what can make it expensive - there are products called Schluter(sp?) and Dytra and other names - there is a tile forum organized by John Bridge which you might want to look at (you can google that too)- they have lots of guys who appear to be VERY helpful to newbies. Good luck!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 2:20PM
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Hi rhome - I can't answer if you will hate it but I can speak to a few of the other questions. Ours is not heated (if I could afford that splurge I would) and it is hard but I have a stress relief mat in front of the sink and honestly my feet hurt from long standing times before the tile - I am 39. I normally wear slippers anyhow so it doesn't bother me to much. Overall I really like it.

It is so durable (two younger boys and a 70# dog) and cleans up very easily. I use a steam mop most of the time and it works well.

Dh and I are also big DIY'ers and installed porcelain slate looking tile in our kitchen/dining area spring of 2011. We used large 18" square tiles - best decision EVER! They are pretty heavy but it does go a bit faster that way and I think makes our space look larger and less grout lines. I think our tiles were $4.50/sq foot so in between your range and they are good quality (IMO). We did it over spring break - kids at grandma and grandpa's house. It's a process but totally doable. It took us a good 3 LONG days and we had 300 sq feet. We did the dining room first and then the kitchen.

Cement board - dry time, tile - dry time, grout - clean up time, seal grout. Like with any project by the time we were almost done I was SICK.OF.IT. But that is usually the way it goes for me, lol. I do think your older kids could possibly tackle it...having your DIY genes and having some backsplash experience already. Flat floors will save you tons of grief and heartache. 1200 square feet is a lot but if you use larger tiles it should move along well.

Do you have a diamond blade wet saw? You will want one of those for sure. Make sure you've got knee pads as well. Are you thinking of a complex pattern - more than one size tile?

The only con I can really think of is it is HARD as in you drop your favorite dish, jar, whatever on it and you can kiss it goodbye. I dropped a jar of salsa and found glass 10 feet away. Otherwise, just one broken drinking glass - so far that has been our only casualty so not so bad.

We will likely put it in when we build our new home. We just can't do wood in the kitchen - boys and dog too sloppy with water for that. It would drive me crazy and I don't have time to police the floors like I'd think I should!

Good luck with whatever you decide.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 2:49PM
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I have tile throughout the downstairs and I love it (a steam mop helps a lot with the pale ivory grout), but I live in FL and those nice cool floors are a plus most of the year. I have to admit it's powerfully cold after three or four days of cold weather, though. If I lived up north I think I'd want under floor heating (and several people here have DIYed that--look for staceyneil's posts in the bathrooms forum).

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 3:27PM
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Elphaba, thanks for the reminder about COF. I am only looking at tiles specifically OK for kitchen and wet room flooring. And the waterproof issue is one reason I'm sticking with porcelain, as it's supposed to be already mostly non-porous.

Autumn.4... I'd thought about the hazard of dropping dishes and glasses, but not full jars and such. What a mess!

We have a wet saw. Your 3 full days for 300 ft is a little daunting... We will definitely use 1 tile size and just a simple pattern. Nothing fancy. I want the floors to take a back seat, as we have enough going on in the kitchen.

I forgot to ask the question about grout lines. With rectified tile, they'd be small, but maybe still a pain when trying to wipe up crumbs, sandy dirt, etc? They always seem to shrink lower and not stay flush with the surface.

Thanks, Writersblock. We're in the Pac NW and wouldn't be adding in-floor heating. I wonder if that much tile floor getting cold would make the house colder/harder to keep heated?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 3:31PM
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I can't comment too much on the tile aspect, and if your heart is set on it, this might not be any use. But, we have Allure flooring (sold at H. Depot), it's inexpensive, extremely easy to DIY (most complicated tool needed is a utility knife), waterproof, and holds up pretty well to the "abuse" of a large family. It's softer on the feet than tile (and therefore softer on dropped breakables, as well), and a little warmer. I regularly neglect ours, and it still looks nice. It does show a few scratches, but they really don't bother me. Maybe you could get a sample and give it a rigorous test to see if it would work for you. There are both tile looking versions as well as wood plank versions. DH loves, loves, loves it and recommends it to whoever hires him to do flooring.

Here is a link that might be useful: Allure flooring at H. Depot

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 3:49PM
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>. I wonder if that much tile floor getting cold would make the house colder/harder to keep heated?

It does seem like it to me, but then I have tile on slab. If you have a different subfloor, probably not as much.

I forgot to say that the PO here had the place tiled with HD special $1.68 sf tile and it's held up just fine the 6 years I've been here, so I don't think there's a problem in longevity with using cheap tile. What you would need to watch out for is lippage and uneven tiles in cheaper brands with poor quality control.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 4:02PM
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I'll look at Allure, based on your strong recommendation, Laughable!

Thanks for the info on cheaper porcelain, WB. I was hoping that rectifying might solve some of those issues, but I guess, who says they cut it straight or cleanly?

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 4:15PM
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I am 53 and couldn't deal with my hard porcelain floors anymore. Yes, things break when they fall but the back pain was the real killer. After a couple of hours of cooking, my back was in awful pain. We just installed Marmoleum glue down tiles in our new kitchen and did a lot of cooking yesterday (thanks to the hurricane). I remarked to DH last night that my back didn't hurt.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 4:30PM
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rhome-the mat does help with the occasional drop from the dishwasher. The 3 full days is pretty accurate - some of it was waiting time but mostly we worked all day on cement board and prep (we did NOT have a level floor and that stinks) and then let the cement board 'set' over night. Then all day tiling. Open space goes more quickly though - no cutting. Tighter spaces take a bit more with the measure, measure again, cut.

Floor sweeps up like a dream and hides much. Normally I feel it before I see it. We have a sandbox which the kids still use a lot and the dog....who likes to lay in it to stay cool. Sand everywhere!

I live in MI so plenty cold in the winter here but again I've always been a slippers kinda girl no matter what the floor!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 4:38PM
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I hate tile floor in the kitchen--have had it twice now in rentals. It is hard for me to keep clean with the grout lines. When I sweep or mop dirt goes into those valleys and the only way to get them clean is on my hands and knees. I go barefoot all the time so it is also hard on my knees and back, especially when I do something like make a couple of trays of lasagne. I am 42, but I do have bad knees and a bad neck. I don't mind the cold though.

It is very durable though. And can be really attractive.

I am very excited to be moving into our new place which has hardwood in the kitchen. If it had tile, even nice, new tile, it would be on the chopping block when we remodel the kitchen.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 4:54PM
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This is what I was afraid of... Mixed reviews... Either love it or hate it, but I won't know which I am until after it's in! Seems like a big risk.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:03PM
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I love my tile floor, especially now that it's dirt-colored (gray) with dirt-colored (gray) grout. Mine isn't even rectified. Since it provides the main entrance we use from the garage, it's important that it not show dirt, road slush, dog paw prints, etc. Never actually looks dirty, but we wash it a lot anyway, and it's a snap to wash. I don't find it particularly cold, but it's over a sub floor and a full basement. I'm almost 56 and it only bothers my back if I'm cooking for hours on end. I'm getting a gel mat for my birthday for use at Thanksgiving, et al. I think you'll like how well porcelain stands up to your active family.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:07PM
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I have dark grout to start with so cleaning is not really an issue. It sweeps and vacuums well.

Mine is on a slab so in the winter it gets cold. I put some kind of rug on it near the door.

It is hard and I can't go barefoot without irritation (callouses and such). I have to wear slippers or thick socks.

My friend had wood that was ruined by a flooding DW. She replaced it with tile.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:13PM
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FWIW, another opinion. I love mine. BUT...I wouldn't love it if it didn't have electric heat in it. (Not too expensive and well worth it. It's heavenly in winter). I've never found cleaning to be that big a deal. Seal the grout well, pick a pattern and a grout color that's a dirt hider, not a dirt magnet, and go for it. I have a bad back and until recently was quite overweight, but I still didn't find the hardness to be much of a problem. One reason might be that I tended to wear soft soled clogs (think Crocs or a winter version of them) if I expect to be on my feet in the kitchen a lot. What I love most about it is that it is impervious to water, since I always seem to be slopping some somewhere.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:22PM
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Well... I"m a tile fan because it's all I know. I'm older then you rhome and I have no back/knee issues. We used recitifed through body porcelain. It' retailed for $7 a sq.ft. but I was able to get it for about $5.50 through a family friend in the business. Install costs us less then $3 a sq.ft...maybe even $2 but that was awfully cheap. You can find inexpensive labor down here in Florida. It may have been a risk but it worked out perfectly and we love the durability and ease of cleaning. My roomba sweeps it and I just damp mop with hot water with vinegar. We used the epoxy grout in a darker color since we have the three dogs, one of which is going on 16 and at this point... goes where he goes. HTH!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:43PM
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What about a high-quality vinyl tile like Amtico or Amtico Spacia??

Here is a link that might be useful: Amtico

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 5:47PM
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My thoughts are along the lines of Melissastar's. I love mine, but I would definitely miss my electric heater.

As for your question #2, here is my description from another thread:

It was probably the hardest part of the project for me. It was not that complicated, but it was hard work and there were a couple of difficult parts.
I put in a new plywood subfloor, then the heater, then Ditra, then the tile, then grouting. All in all, this was a hard job. It took about two weeks of full effort (which I spread out over a much longer time frame). It took me two days to put down the plywood underlayment, one fairly easy day to lay out the heater mat, one 20-hour day (!) to put down the bottom thinset and Ditra, one day to lay out the tile guidelines, about 4 or 5 days to actually lay the tile, and about 3 days to grout it. This is in addition to the time I spent shoring up the floor joists and cutting and sorting the travertine tiles. (I cut them from 12x12 to 6x6.)

My heart still sings when I see it, though! :-)


I should note that it took so long to lay the tile partly because I used 6x6 tiles. If you use larger, it should go much faster (although you need to be careful about lippage). And the flatter your floor and your tile are, the easier it will be to avoid lippage.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 6:02PM
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I am 29 and can't walk around Home Depot's concrete floors for more than 20 minutes without my hips hurting (sports injury). Having experienced that, I would never do the tile, and even more so if I thought my body would get worse before the next remodel. JME.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 6:34PM
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I'm in Florida and love tile. Tile is pretty much the norm here. I have rectified porcelain in our living room, family room and dining room. We had it installed about two years ago and previously had very old carpet.

I don't think it is a DIY job unless you are experienced. The slab/floor must be completely level or the tiles will crack.

The seams are tiny which are nice and ours looks almost like one giant slab. It is porcelain with muted "swirls" - very contemporary. Porcelain is better than ceramic because the color goes all the way though. Ceramic has that brown/red color inside so if it gets chipped, you will see it.

It is also very practical for us. We have large dogs who also like to go swimming. So they don't wreck the tile when they come in wet and shake! Other than having to dry the tiles (and the dogs) it is indestructible. The dogs nails do not scratch it.

I see a lot of people complain about it being "hard" but well I'm just used to it, never thought about a floor being hard or not.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 6:38PM
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I'm liking the selection of Amticos! It's not available through my regular stomping grounds, but I could try to find it.

Thanks, everyone, for your input and experiences.

Wow, Angie, that is a helpful and detailed installation description, thanks!

I am afraid of needing mats or pads, because our kitchen is so large and we use so much of it. There isn't one work spot. But I do wear shoes and socks, except in the really warm parts of the summer, which is short here.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 7:10PM
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Well, after the grout thread, and my bad knees/back, I ruled out tile.

I'm super excited to get my cork floor, I wish I didn't have to wait until May! I have read a lot about the glue down tiles, and they are noted to be a reasonable DIY project. They come pre glued, cut with a utility knife, and install is said to be like vinyl tiles (haven't done that, I'll take their word for it). You have to have a flat surface, then roll a layer of glue on the floor, then put the tile down and whack it to set it. If I had a more reasonable work schedule I would try it. Cork also doesn't absorb stuff, and no grout!

If we like the kitchen as much as I think we will, I might DIY another room. I'd love to put it in the basement, but that's a whole other project!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 7:22PM
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We had our porcelain put in in June and I haven't notice any difference in standing on it and the vinyl we had before. I have had a few foot issues over the years, so I was concerned before I bought it.

I considered Amtico and it's a great product. You can order samples through their website. IIRC, it was twice the price of porcelain tile, and you need an approved installer for the the warranty to be valid. Contractor's Furnishings Mart in Oregon and Washington has it, but they only sell to contractors. You can go see it though.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 7:39PM
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My DH and FIL tiled my sunroom in Florida. It was over a pebble rock floor (why the previous owners put this in, I don't know, the jagged rocks hurt!) and including the time to put the self-leveling stuff down and tile, it took them 4 days total. This was their first time ever tiling floors (my FIL had tiled walls before) and it came out very well, they said it wasn't hard just time consuming as long as you know how to use a wet saw (I think that's what it is called). My room was very out-of-square so it complicated the cuts on the project too.

I don't notice any noticeable difference between walking on the tile and walking on either our american cherry floors in PA or our bamboo living room floors in FL.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 7:44PM
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Another fan of tile here. I live in the frozen north (it's snowing today for Hallowe'en) and don't have underfloor heating. But I always wear shoes or slippers - if you do so, I don't think the "hardness" of tile will be a problem. Get dark grout. I can't imagine a more dog-proof surface.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 7:46PM
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We have tile and love it. Last two homes had hardwood in the kitchen and hardwood with two huge dogs and winter snow just didn't mix. Doggies would always find a way to "accidently" roll off their mat at the door and onto the hardwood and we did get water damage from them laying there over time. This house we did tile and I am LOVING it.

I don't get back pain but I do get foot pain if I'm just in sock feet and doing a full day cooking marathon (e.g., christmas or thanksgiving). I've learned to wear good padded running shoes if I'm going to be spending hours on my feet on the tile. If I forget to wear them I do pay for it with sore feet at the end of a long day cooking though.

So just make sure you have super-comfy shoes if you'll be spending a long time in the kitchen on tile. IMO.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 8:11PM
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I like tile. I like how it feels under my feet (solid, cool). I like how durable it can be. I have done several DIY installations using Ditra, which provides water proofing as well as an isolation membrane (for a very solid installation). I found it to be very doable as DIY, though time consuming solo (improving over time and less time consuming with multiple workers). I don't have it in my kitchen yet, but I fully intend to. I think it's a great option for the kitchen.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 8:40PM
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Thanks so much, again and again for each and every piece of input.

The Amtico sounds like it would run out of our price range.

I looked at cork at Lowes and it gouged too easily with a fingernail and some effort. The Globus is supposed to be better, but I've never seen ungougable cork? I don't want to trade one floor that wasn't family-tough enough for us for another, so am scared of it.

Those of you with tile, even with a good friction score, is it slippery when wet? Do you have a texture to prevent it? Every once in awhile a stray ice cube melts in the darkish entry-way into the kitchen, or water drips off clean dishes coming from the dishwasher. I still have an 8 yr old who moves too fast and trips or dances around and falls, and, really, any of us could slip.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 8:46PM
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For tiles, I highly recommend picking what you like and shopping around. I found ours and it was $9.89 and I got it on eBay for $2 and free shipping. Spoke to a human(a store in Nevada) and it arrives on pallets beautifully packed with not a single tile broken.
In PNW. I would consider doing heating wires. We used Nuheat and they were thin and went down pretty fast. We tried heated floors at a friends place (slab floors with tiles) and they really make a difference. We have tile on slab for about 1200 sq.ft. The tile itself is easier if it is large format. We used 18x18 tiles. The tile guy used plumb lines with chalk to snap the design on the floor before tiling. We used epoxy ground (laticrete spectralock pro premium) as I did not want to deal with future grout sealing. I would do this again in a heartbeat. I may use a gel mat for spaces where I stand a lot.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 9:12PM
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My boys are 10 and 7 and they have actually had more falls in the living room on the wood floor. They love to run and slide across the wood floor much to my dislike. They chase each other through the house almost daily. I steam mop the tile and it really dries so quick we have never had a problem. In fact I think I remember warning them in the beginning to be careful and I can't remember the last time I said a thing about it. We also have stray ice cubes and frequent dog beard drips. I think you'd need quite a puddle before you'd have to worry about slipping. No special coating on ours.

I was going to link our tile but it looks nothing like the picture on the internet! Anyhow - if you check the link below they actually detail a lot of the tile characteristics and that might help while you are looking. I haven't purchased from them but liked the way they had their site set up for browsing and all of the information they had.

Here is a link that might be useful: Tile Site

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 9:43PM
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I have laid a lot of tile and I will never have it in my own kitchen and always put it in the kitchens of houses I flip! It is way too hard and cold for me and I dislike grout and keeping the grout looking nice.

Rectified tile is hard to lay. I can lay a kitchen of regular tile in no time (52 year old woman here also) but it took me a couple days to lay the small bathroom of rectified I did this summer. It really is a job for a GOOD expert in the square footage you are talking.

I put Allure in the house I just moved out of. I considered it a temporary floor when I laid it but it did hold up fairly well under the dogs (better than my current Marmoleum Click) for the year I was there. But I didn't see it as a good long term floor. A "get what you pay for" type thing. But I know they have made some improvements over the past year and even have a commercial line so there might be some options there.

I spent all spring looking at kitchen floors and I liked alot of the LVT options such as Congoleum DuraCeramic and Mannington Adura, Armstrong Alterna. My personal preference would be a product like that instead of porcelain tile. And with my dislike of grout, I wouldn't grout them unless I chose a darker colored floor and grout!

Photo is of the Allure, it is their white color which is not white at all.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 9:55PM
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I only skimmed the responses so maybe someone has mentioned the subfloor you need for ceramic tile? You said you have plywood: how thick is it? You may need to add another layer of subfloor and this will increase the height of the tiled floor. Just another thing to think about.

We had ceramic in our first house, I installed it but had someone else grout (I hate grouting). It went in pretty easily but was hard on the knees. And like others said above there is little hope for survival of breakable items dropped on it. Actually I dropped a Yoplait container on it and the thing burst open, I had yogurt on the walls, the ceiling, the table across the room...

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 10:39PM
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I thought rectified might be easier to deal with, since it's consistent? And I thought I'd prefer the tighter grout lines...

I didn't realize it might be so easy to heat the floor. I've only seen the type of in floor heating that has the water lines, so takes a lot of depth, not to mention a lot of trouble.

I've looked at DuraCeramic and Armstrong Alterna vinyl tiles, but their patterns (faux stone) weren't working with my kitchen. The ones we're considering, that I mentioned in the OP, are vinyl with a fiberglass core, and lock on the edges. They can float or glue down. They are actually faux wood... I was so surprised my dh was okay with them, since he's a woodworker and wood snob. He hates vinyl siding, etc., but we all agree that this stuff, new at least, looks like actual wood.

But I still felt like tile had to be tougher, and maybe less expensive, so I that's why I checked with you all here.

Our sub floor is 3/4".

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 11:08PM
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My dogs slip much more on the wood floor than on the tile, for what its worth. I do have some tile in my master bath that gets really slippery when wet, but none of the other tiles in my house have ever presented a slipping problem (we have water on the floor a fair amount because someone always manages to kick the dog water bowls that I have lying around)

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 11:09PM
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I thought rectified might be easier to deal with, since it's consistent? And I thought I'd prefer the tighter grout lines...

Normal tile has beveled edges. This hides a multitude of problems. Rectified tile betrays the slightest lippage.

As for grout lines, I agree, the tight grout lines are nice. It is just that it is easier to notice when you are a bit off from tile to tile on the grout width. AND, you don't have much space to "ramp" the grout from one tile to another to hide any lippage.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2012 at 11:22PM
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Something else to note about the heated tile floors. I have a big old drafty house with an oil-burning furnace. It costs a fortune to heat it using the central heat and steam radiators. I've got a small gas stove in the kitchen and a pellet burning stove in the living room, and typically just run them to warm the areas I'm in most of the time on weekends and in the evenings after work. The one time I still really needed the central heat was in the AM to warm my upstairs bathroom. That is, I needed it until the floor with the electric heat was put in...now if I just set the thermostat on it high enough, and to come on early enough, it makes the bathroom plenty warm for me to get ready for work and the central heat hardly needs to come on at all. Yes, the electricity bill is higher. But the extra cost is nothing compared to the savings on the oil bill.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 12:13AM
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No idea what will work best for you but can say that I never had tile in a kitchen before my current space and I absolutely hate it. I have lost count of how many things I have broken and I don't find it easy to keep clean (and my tile is gray). My Mom did sheet flooring and it remains one of her favourite choices - hides dirt, low maintenance and easy to clean. Good luck finding the right solution.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 12:27AM
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Tile vs wood floors. Tile is waterproof wood is not. Tile will not scratch Wood can. With tile you can do many designs.Hardwood can make your space look larger.Wood may have to be refinished. With rectified tile it is better to hire a experience tile guy. It is a lot of work. My husband put down rectified tile in our house, and we have wood in our the front room. I do not notice any different standing on wood or tile.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 12:37AM
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Regular tile is a whole big bunch more forgiving than rectified. There's a reason experienced professional tilers charge significantly more to install rectified tile.

I also have never noticed any difference between walking/standing on tile and on other flooring materials, and I never wear shoes in the house.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 1:20AM
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Love the tile I used in kitchen & entryway. Easy to clean and so handy in snow/rain season. It is Italian porcelain rated for outdoor use and has a slight texture.(non-rectified) The grout is dark gray.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:15AM
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Rhome410 - I have to agree with you about the faux woods in the vinyls and laminate. I have had solid oak floors in my last two house and my four legged friends just scratch the heck out of them and then I would sand and refinish them and then we would start again!

In the house I just moved into was a flooded foreclosure and needed 1900 sq ft of flooring. I love hard floors instead of carpet so I narrowed my main flooring choice down to engineered hardwood or laminate (I was going over a slab). After much debate I carpeted one room, put Marmoleum Click in the kitchen and entry and put 1200 sq ft of wood look laminate down. I did a lot of searching until I found something that I thought look realistic in color, pattern and texture. I've only been in about 3 weeks but I have to say I love it and so far it seems bullet proof. You can see from the photo, after decades of oak I went with something darker that didn't look like oak!

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 8:09AM
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rhome, I didn't read all the replies (isn't it nice to get so much feedback?)

Here are my thoughts...

You are right about being worried about aging with the tile. It is hard on your knees, and none of us are getting any younger.

The cold factor. We put an electric heat mat under the main area of our master bath. For (significant) cost savings we did not do the whole thing, So the entry way area is not heated and the toilet room is not heated. When I feel those tiles NOW as it is getting cold I am so happy we did not omit heated floor for the rest of the room. It is so cold and I can only imagine a large area of tile without any heat, especially in a cold/wet/damp climate. Even with slippers, I have a hunch the chill would seep through.

Finally, I know you can get stain resistant grout, etc. But I don't like cleaning it. And again, a large area with a lot of traffic might make me crazy.

Good luck with your decision.


    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 9:04AM
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Ginny20 - I'd love to see pictures of your floors. It's sounds just like what I'm looking for....dirt color = low maintenance :)

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 9:17AM
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Real wood isn't under consideration, Shar-az, although my husband suggested it first. We have Brazilian Cherry in the other main areas of the first floor, and I am not a fan. Beautiful yes, but scratches and showing every speck of dust and every piece of dog hair. Plus, we're replacing the Marmo Click because of water, and I'm avoiding anything wood.... Which, unfortunately, rules out laminate, Hags00. Your floors are beautiful, and we had tile look laminate in our last house that I loved for its toughness, but the core is the same as in the Click....that swelled. :-(

Your floors are beautiful, too, Eatrealfood!

I had no idea pros charged more for rectified. A couple years ago, maybe more, here on the forum, all the talk was about rectified and how great it was because of consistency and tight grout lines.

This is getting complicated. ;-)

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 10:48AM
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>I had no idea pros charged more for rectified. A couple years ago, maybe more, here on the forum, all the talk was about rectified and how great it was because of consistency and tight grout lines.

Yes, but getting that consistency is the thing. If you ask over in the bathrooms forum, I'm sure that Bill V, Mongo, or Stonetech can explain all the reasons why.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 11:15AM
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I just remembered about these tiles I saw at the cabinet showroom. They are a click floating porcelain tile and supposed to be really easy to install. They looked very interesting.

I'll link to one brand, but I think there are other companies out there. Unfortunately I don't know much more about them since we decided early on not to persue tile.

Here is a link that might be useful: Avaire floating click tiles

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 11:16AM
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I think there was some talk about those before, willamsen, but IIRC the consensus was that they wound up being as expensive as having the job done right.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 11:26AM
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Hi Rhome, I have porcelain tile and I love it. I have never had any problems standing on it and having back aches. It cleans up beautifully even with the grout lines. There are so many beautiful tiles on the market, I know you will find the perfect one to make your kitchen even more beautiful.
Eatrealfood - cute kitty!

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 11:28AM
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I've had nearly every floor known to man in the kitchen at one point or another. Favorite, hands down is cork. Even after going thru a plumbing leak and having the cork ruined (so would every other floor except tile on a concrete foundation, btw). We thought about going with tile. Debated it- even picked out the one we liked. I changed my mind and we're getting cork again.

As far as damaging cork- if you seal it, you'll be fine with it in a kitchen. Dogs, cats, kids, messy DH, nothing hurt it except the dang old metal legged stool that DH refused to get rid of AND kept forgetting to replace the rubber leg things. It hid dirt- I had major surgery a few years back. That floor was lucky to get swept once a month, let alone mopped. Never showed dirt. It does need to be resealed every few years, just like wood- And, this is a BIGGIE- I can promise it saved the wood floors in the rest of our great room from the water leak. When we found the leak, the cork was so heavy it was hard to lift (it was the click together planks).

I have tile in the bathrooms- and keep most of it covered with rugs. It's cold, hurts my knees & hips, plus I hate cleaning grout. I tend to splash bleach on the floor into the grout lines and shut the door for the day. Yes, I know it's bad for the grout, but it's worse for me to try and get on my hands and knees to scrub dirty grout lines. I figure it's cheaper to repair grout than need surgery on me.

And, FWIW, cork will heal itself from most things. Mine was down over 7 years (I think it was about 10, but can't really remember) I have a 80 lb giant schnauzer with a beard that sucks up water and drips puddles the size of a dinner plate. Not even a sign of water damage near the water bowl when the floor came up (unlike when we removed the laminte we'd had before- talk about mold city!- and the floor itself looked fine).

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 1:04PM
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As soon as I decide maybe tile is too much work and too 'iffy,' someone posts beautiful floors and a positive experience, and I'm back on board! I like the rich look of that tile, Kalapointer. I will just have to keep looking a bit more at tile, and at things like under-tile heating, before I decide.

And thanks for the extra info on cork, Luckymom. Good to hear from someone who had it over a long period.

In case anyone wants to weigh in further, this is one of the vinyl tile planks we are considering:
Invincible Vinyl Tile in Winchester: Lubbock

It's a brown wood color that's a bit golden with streaks of gray. It doesn't look so blah in person. I'll link the blog post in which I showed samples in the kitchen of it and the other option, which is gray, and really close to the color of our Marmoleum:
DevineLock in Burr Oak

Here is a link that might be useful: Blog post showing vinyl tile plank options in our kitchen

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 1:19PM
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We replaced the tile we had in our kitchen and family room in part because it was getting hard on my feet and DH's back and knees and in part because the bozos who did the tile patches during our kitchen work made a mess of things. We didn't have mats, but I would have gotten them for at least the sink and stove if we had kept the tile.

We had the tile put in when we bought the house and chose one with some texture to it because we have a pool in the back yard and with kids running in, we were especially concerned about both water damage and slipping. Even with the texture, it was slippery when wet. We didn't have problems with falls, but did have some slips -- usually from wet feet more than a small amount of water near the sink or dropped ice near the fridge.

I do love the durability and easy cleaning of tile. If properly installed, it should last longer than you care to have it, and porcelain is the way to go -- colored through with your busy family, just in case you get a chip. Can't help you with heating. Never had it down here near Houston, but I think I'd want it up north. I've watched it installed (the dry, wired type) on HGTV. Doesn't look like it would add to the difficulty of DIY. Pros would take 3-5 days to lay your floor, so I'd anticipate up to double that.

Can't recommend cork if you had trouble with water. The cork we almost put in the kitchen said not to use water even to clean the floor. The was no way to get the concrete dust off the slab when we laid it down to test it and it got walked on. That didn't bode well for flour and sugar or food spills in general. It went back.

We now have wood, and the only time I've been concerned with water was a pool party when kids came in dripping wet. If we'd had the tile, the'd have been on their backsides, so I guess we'll put down a larger mat or towels for pool parties with the teens and carry on.

Good luck with your decision.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 1:35PM
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A few comments:

* Stone and tile floors need a rigid subfloor to prevent cracking the stone/tiles or grout. That typically means 1 1/8" thickness. Other types of flooring can be laid over 3/4" subfloors, which means the floor as a whole may have more "bounce". I suspect this is where people got the idea that hardwood floors are "softer" than tile floors.

* If the subfloor structure is identical, there is no practical difference between the hardness of concrete, stone, tile, wood, laminate, linoleum, or most types of vinyl flooring when it comes to standing on them - none of them yields under your weight enough for you to be able to detect it, even in bare feet. Even the cushiest sheet flooring has only a little give in it. People who find that switching from tile to wood stopped back/hip/or knee pain are powerful testament to the placebo effect.

* There is a big difference when it comes to what happens when you drop something on tile vs. wood. Wood does have enough give in it to give a plate or stout glass a chance of survival; tile is almost certain death to dropped ceramics. Drop a cast iron pan on either and you will likely damage the floor - wood will dent, tile will shatter.

* If you keep a couple of spare tiles, it's a bit easier to replace a tile and match the grout than it is to replace a section of wood flooring and match the stain.

* The joints between wood planks are crud traps.

* Epoxy grout doesn't stain like traditional grout.

* You can't wet mop/steam mop wood floors.

* Tile over an impermeable barrier like Ditra is waterproof - it protects your subfloor from minor floods. You can extend the barrier+tile up the wall to improve this in areas where water leaks/spills are likely.

* Wood feels warmer underfoot because it is a better insulator than tile. This may be another reason people think of wood as more comfortable than tile.

* Tile is better if you have underfloor heating, because it is a better conductor of heat than wood.

* If you want a soft floor, carpet (yucky in a kitchen), thick cork, rubber, or a rubber mat are your choices. Or you could just wear shoes with cushioned soles.

* Don't install cabinets or appliances on top of a cork floor - lay the floor around the the cabinets, etc.

* Slipperiness depends on the texture of tile and the finish applied to wood. You can get tile that is quite grippy, even when wet; you can make wood really slick.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 2:33PM
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I like tile in the kitchen. Very easy to maintain. We have handmade looking tiles with about 3/8 inch grout lines but it is not a problem. Our floor is checkerboard, brown and white. Although we did everything else ourselves we had a professional install the tile floor and backsplash. But we worked out the details of the border and the layout together. Tile just makes cooking messes and dog problems so much less of an issue. I am older than you Rhome, and cook a lot and have not had any problems with the tile being hard.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:28PM
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PeterH2, can you provide some more info on not installing cabinets on cork? We were trying to figure that out! Id love to be able to provide an answer to the contractor.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:45PM
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rhome -

Like them both and think either would be great in your kitchen. Winchester would be my first choice if I had to choose. kind of the same color scheme as the Allure I chose in the last house and I liked it because it never looked dirty!

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:46PM
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Adding an 'active senior' input...I asked my 86 yr old mother in law as she has cooked in my previous home with wood floors, my current home with vinyl and tile.. Her favorite is tile. She recommends a braided rug or one of those cushy mats if you stand in front of the stove for a long time baby sitting something.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:52PM
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I'm currently renovating my bath, and will be putting in a vinyl plank floor. I'll report out on the process if you are interested. I hope to be laying the planks this weekend... but it has been slow going.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 6:55PM
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I looked at the planks you are considering. You could do either, but I think I like the more brown one. It seems to connect with the warm and cool tones throughout the kitchen. I like the grey with everything but the natural wood cabinets. It doesn't quite work on my monitor, but that doesn't mean it doesn't in your kitchen.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 7:20PM
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I am thinking tile probably isn't for me... For one thing, with all of the greatest respect to those who have them and love them, I am not a mat or little rug person. They get in my way, gather up and move around (even if they have stuff underneath to prevent it), the corners turn up, they catch dirt... I just need a totally clear floor, and so do my less-than-perfectionist, asst housekeepers.

Mostly and especially, though, has to do with what PeterH2 said in the first of his helpful comments. (Thanks for taking the time to list all of those!) I do have to add 3/8 or 1/2" of subfloor to do the vinyl tile and get it to approximately the same level as we had the Marmoleum Click, but, if I need to add 3/8" of subfloor, then backer, then tile, the floor surface will be too high. It won't be a good transition to the wood flooring, and the dishwashers probably won't fit back in under the countertop. :(

Thanks, Hags00 and Lascatx, for the input on the vinyl. Half my family likes one and half likes the other, and I like both! I was actually afraid the brown would be bad with the wood cabinets...maybe clashing... while the gray is so close to what I have, it would be 'safest.' But when I first planned my kitchen, I wanted brown floors, and 'settled' for gray, because Marmoleum Click had no brown. The brown is also a little rustic looking, which I like, but not sure it goes as well with the feel of the house. Obviously, still torn!

Mabeldingeldine, I'd love to hear how your planking goes!

    Bookmark   November 1, 2012 at 7:36PM
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Just had to tell you all how dumb I am! I kept wondering about that 1200 sq ft total I'd come up with for amount of flooring I need... but not really thinking it through.(Our entire main floor is only 1500 sq ft!)

When I first measured, trying to be very precise, I recorded all the areas of flooring by inches, including more than a few bumps and jogs, and then divided all by 144 into sq ft. I must've made some very wayward calculation somewhere, because I refigured my Marmoleum sq footage tonight, and now come out with less than 450 sq ft. Quite a difference! I am actually decent at math, I promise... I'll just be thankful for the realization and the facts, and more happily move on with getting a new floor for a lot less than I thought I'd have to spend! Makes a possible DIY project less daunting, or pro-installation costs easier to swallow.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 2:03AM
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LOL rhome! I was thinking - 1200 square feet - wow that is HUGE (our whole entire house is 1450 sq. feet). :) I know you have a large family so I just figured it was a very large space.

One more thing to add-the open areas do go more quickly. Our dining room went much faster than the kitchen - less cutting.

Here is a pic of our floor (not a great one) - very good at hiding dirt. We didn't have our base shoe trim on yet. Grout turned out lighter than I wanted and I was in quite the PANIC, but I am used to it now.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 8:26AM
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I realize you already made your choice not to do tile, but just to pile on...

We had tile in our last house and it was really rough on my back, and my feet would ache from a quick weeknight dinner prep. I had never before, and never since have had issues with my back. This house had vinyl that we just replaced with sheet marmo, and I loved both.

Why would the vinyl planks be better than the click marmo? Seems like they'll both have the same issues in terms of letting water underneath to the substrate.

Did you consider sheet lino? I think you're near me (DFW), and my guys were really very good.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 8:58AM
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I went back on your blog and read about the water issues. On your DW, check the seal. That or a hose would seem most likely to leak. We couldn't figure out where water was coming from on a new DW years back and it turned out to be a cut in the seal that was only apparent when you ran a finger over it and the cut line separated. DH and I hadn't been able to find it, so the repairman made us feel better when it took him several tries to find it. Time to be grateful for the second DW, right? But I understand. I don't have as many at home as you and I can still run both DWs in a day (not all plates and glasses, obviously!).

There is something about the grey plank that is close but not quite. I like the grey you have though. Looking at the blog photos again, I noticed the grey appears to reflect yellow from the natural wood. That is where it is least attractive. But then I also looked at the one near the cooktop. Reverse those and look at the grey in front of the cooktop cabinets and hood. There isn't enough contrast for me there and they don't match. That's where I like it least, and it's a focal point of your kitchen. Obviously, you have to look at the colors in the room, but that's how it looks on my monitor.

As for rustic, I see it as relaxed, natural, a little old fashioned and a bit contemporary -- and to me, that does fit your multi-finish kitchen. And it's warmer, which fits the burgundy, wood and overall feel of the kitchen.

Admittedly, I am looking very closely and trying to come up with reasons why I'd pick what I would, but if I had to shop from my computer monitor, it would be the browner one of these two choices.

I saw some really nice looking vinyl planks when we did our wood floors last year. I live in an area where wood, certain kinds of tile, wood, a limited amount of carpet and more wood are considered acceptable flooring choices. We didn't look long, but I had to stop and look, touch. I think you'll be happy with whatever you pick. If it's that tough to chose a color, you probably can't go wrong.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 9:36AM
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Thanks for more input, YoungDeb and Autumn.4. We're in the Pacific NW/Puget Sound area. Autumn, I can see where you might have chosen darker grout, but the light seems to sharpen and brighten the tile, so it looks good!

Why would the vinyl planks be better than the click marmo? Seems like they'll both have the same issues in terms of letting water underneath to the substrate.

The problem wasn't that water went underneath to the sub-floor, although that may have become a problem later. The problem is that the Marmoleum Click has a wood fiber core, and that's what swelled and got ruined by the little bit of water. The vinyl planks don't have that. Although, it's not any easier to replace if water DOES get under and damages the floor. I will definitely check about sealing or doing some glue-down around the water areas.

Lascatx, we've actually now been running the 'leaking' dishwasher with no more visible water anywhere. I will definitely clean the seal and check it, as that was something a blog commenter suggested, too.

I think the pics are bad of the gray flooring, because there was no yellow about it at all, and in fact, the brownish one is golden and looked VERY yellow in the store (fluorescent lighting), but thankfully, not so much at home. I'm a little afraid that when it covers the whole floor, it'll have more of an impact.

I have never been happy with the gray on my range area cabinets, as I'd wanted a creamy gray, and I've even caught my dh referring to them as 'the blue cabinets.' Aargh! So I'd like to repaint them, and the color would be the same as the gray floor, but darker. I also wasn't sure I wanted them to be that matchy. And I sure don't like them together much as they are.

My son-in-law said the gray looked like 'beach house.' He wasn't sure that was in keeping with the room, but on the other hand, when I switched from the stronger color scheme to this one, I was imagining the warm, bleached rocks along a river on a sunny day... So maybe the beach house feel isn't far off. And I kind of liked that about the gray flooring.

BUT, since it is so close, plus 2 of those I thought were gray-fans were telling me last night they liked the brown, and, especially, since the trusted guys at the flooring store have positive experience with the brown brand and no experience with the gray, and since it's the 'store brand,' the flooring and installation warranties are better... I think the brown wins.

I still have a little bit of problem with the 'fake wood' thing. But I bet I'll get over it.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 10:35AM
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In a rush and have not read entire thread, but I would find 1200 square feet of tile undesirable. And I love tile--the colors, the textures, the possibilities. I have scored, stained concrete in the gallery and mudroom/laundry room. It would kill me, were I on it all day. On the plus side, it does match our dirt! I do have one of those gel mats in front of the utility room sink (highly recommend). If I have to walk around a big box store the existing leg pain and fibro issues that I have worsen. And that is wearing good walking shoes. One thing that helped on the concrete was wearing Crocs. However, after the Great Pyrenees ate them, I was never able to find any with the same, uh, gushiness of that first pair. (They were also too wide, which isn't good.) Obviously, you do not have the same health issues, but I didn't always have them either. When I had Saltillo pavers, they still bugged me if I went without shoes, and that was pre-health issues. I think the concrete experience speaks to what rectified porcelain would feel like.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 11:03AM
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Just a thought, but now that you are looking at much less square footage, have you considered sheet Marmoleum? You could keep the same general look you loved with the Click product, but it would be completely waterproof. With the reduced square footage, you might be able to work it into your budget.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 11:16AM
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What youngdeb said. Cause yes, you'll hate them.

The gray floor doesn't quite do anything for me. It's just not quite the right something with the reddish browns and grays - meaning it also isn't quite right with the slight red-yellow of the fir.

I like the colors of devine lock better - not sure if I'd choose burr oak or post oak.

Lastly - am wondering if you're sensitive to wood overload? Cause you're going to add a significant quantity of wood grain. I'm not sure it would matter to me, but you've got a fair amount of texture going on now, so I'm just asking the question.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 12:35PM
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Looking at your blog--I like the brownish one better... I think it ties well to your cabinet color, backsplash and counters. But, it still has enough cool tone to go with your other cabinets and your stainless. It is also a nice warm with your wood floors.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 1:19PM
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Thanks for more input...All is welcome. I often am rather set in a decision, but this one isn't quite falling into place. A good idea to look into sheet Marmo. Still would have to deal with the 'patina' aspect, but worth considering.

Bmore, I was wondering the same about too many woods in too many colors, which is one reason I leaned toward the gray, which has less color variation, and isn't a natural wood color to fight with the real ones. I think, though, that wood, being considered a neutral type of flooring material, and this one in a calmer color, would be OK with me. Still, a good thing to think about some more.

The gray fake wood is about as close to the color of the current Marmoleum as I could get in any material, even other Marmoleums, so it's interesting that so many like it less...

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 1:36PM
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> PeterH2, can you provide some more info on not installing cabinets on cork?

Your base cabinets need to sit on a rigid foundation. If they are not firmly supported (sitting on a squishy layer of cork), they will shift over time, or when someone leans heavily on them, which will create gaps, may break the countertop, could open up plumbing joints, etc.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 2:22PM
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> if I need to add 3/8" of subfloor, then backer, then tile, the floor surface will be too high

A finished tile floor would be about 3/4 - 7/8" thick over your existing subfloor (I am assuming your floor is not wildly unlevel). You don't need backer over the additional 3/8 subfloor (just use a "modified" thinset mortar), but if you want a waterproof floor, Ditra adds very little to the finished thickness (and is generally a Good Thing).

Up to 1/4" height change at a doorway or other transition is no big deal, IMO; I think more than that looks odd/starts to be a trip hazard.

The One True Material to use to reinforce a floor is Halex. Contractors will naturally try to use cheaper, inferior materials.

Here is a link that might be useful: Halex underlayment

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 2:36PM
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The floor is quite level. We are our own contractors, as far as building up the subfloor, so we'd have the choice about what to use to reinforce the floor. Good to know what's a quality option. The bigger problem with the height change is the openings for the dishwasher. I'm not sure we have room to go a lot higher than what we have now, which is less than 1/2" above the subfloor. I'll have to check.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 2:50PM
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I don't know if you are still interested in tile or not but some companies are making what's called "thin tile". It has to be set on an absolutely level stable base but if my translation from mm to inches is correct, it look like they can be as thin as 1/4 inch. And they look fantastic.

Here is a link that might be useful: Thin tiles

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 4:19PM
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Good point. I actually started this process looking at the thin tiles (Kerlite,specifically), then thought I didn't need to go that route. I could consider it again. Might have the 'lippage' issue if DIY'd, though, or the upcharge for labor, since I think it's rectified.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 5:02PM
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Have you looked at something like pergo? I found that some of their products are backed with HDF - samples survived 3 days of being immersed in water with no visible change at all.

I'm sorry marmoleum click didn't hold up.

Here is a link that might be useful: Lumber liquidators gray oak.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 8:53PM
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That's what the Click had between the Marmo and cork, and that's what swelled. Guess we don't know how long it took to get that way. But the flooring guys told me to avoid laminates or anything with that same wood-based core.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 9:30PM
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I tried out a bunch of different products and most stuff failed the water tests but pergo didn't at all.

I had never read the fine print on the Marmoleum click until now - they're pretty up front with it not being able to take water or maybe they just recently learned to say that clearly. Unfortunately, their spec sheets aren't really informative about the base material. I'd bet on it being ldf - the same thing used as a vinyl underlayment but I could find any written information from forbo.

    Bookmark   November 2, 2012 at 11:00PM
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This thread is very relevant for me. I want to find a "wood look" product for flooring throughout the public space when we do the remodel. I've been researching - and one company insists that vinyl plank is really the only way to go. We are on a cement slab and the consensus so far has been to be very twitchy about engineered wood or laminate given the core material holding water.

Stopped by a place, today, though that really was trying to sell me on a laminate. It has this realistic wood grain texture and the sales person and her neighbor both have it throughout their public spaces, including kitchens. Apparently, the stuff is impervious to pets, etc. I'm going to research it when I can find some time, but I'm skeptical.

I really appreciate the thread and will be interested in see people's journeys with this. Please, please post pics and information as you folks move foward.

Hags00 - do you mind sharing the name/color of your pretty laminate?

I'll let you know if I find anything out here in my own research.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2012 at 12:52AM
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I know when we got our Wilsonart Estate Plus in our previous home, Pergo and one other rated as highly for their high pressure laminate construction... And I liked our Wilsonart very much for durability, so was a little excited about your suggestion, Bmore. But I also think they had, at that time, big box store Pergo and flooring store Pergo, of different prices and quality. Do they make different quality levels of Pergo now?

When I looked on the Pergo website, and did a retailer search near my zip code, they listed only Home Depot and Lowes. And when I read reviews on those sites, there were too many (for my comfort) complaints about bubbling and problems due to moisture... Also lots of defects within a batch. Quality control sounded terrible. I was disappointed... So I wondered if you'd found, possibly, a different product, but also made by Pergo?

Looking forward to hearing what you find and go with, Steph2000. Best wishes in your search!

    Bookmark   November 3, 2012 at 3:30PM
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If you are interested in engineered wood then I heartily recommend Lausanne flooring (with titanium coating). I am certain it will not withstand flooding or prolonged water seepage (no wood floor will), but my doggie had a few little "accidents", which I didn't see right away, and there was no harm to the floor. I am very impressed with it. We were considering it for the kitchen but we worried about how dirty it would get in the kitchen since you are not really supposed to clean it with water.

One of the primary reasons I preferred tile in the kitchen is that I love cleaning it with the Shark steamer. The floor always looks so beautiful after a steam cleaning!

    Bookmark   November 3, 2012 at 9:40PM
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If you decide on tile then research epoxy grout. It's more expensive to install because it's a 3 part mixture and there's a limit to how long you can work it before it starts to set. But it doesn't stain. Our porcelain is oatmeal colored and the grout matches it. The grout in the high traffic area by the back door gets dirty (think 2 rottweilers and a lab) and I can ignore it for months at a time before I finally decide to clean it. With a little scrubing it quickly returns to the original cream color. I do need to get a steam mop though.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2012 at 10:31PM
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I know what you mean about the hd version and the retail version. I believe the mighty box stores now carry some of the retail versions and I tested a sample of American cottage which I found at hd.

I don't know anything more recent - meaning last four years or so. I tried to look at colors, but got distracted by whitewashed pine. They don't seem long on grays.

    Bookmark   November 3, 2012 at 11:13PM
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I have a headache. Just spent my evening on The Floor Pro community forums, mostly reading on LVT after being led there by the flooring forum here. Yikes. So many brands and styles have complaints. Most seem to say glue down vinyl tiles instead of trusting the click-together joints. Some of the clicks have come apart, peaked at the seams, and even some that have scratched and scuffed something awful. There were several questions, but absolutely no feedback on the 2 brands I'm considering.

After my oven sagas, remembering installation challenges the pros had with our wood floors (that if I hadn't seen and complained, wouldn't have been caught until it was a HUGE job to fix), and the current kitchen floor problems, I just want something that is foolproof, and will go in right and stay right. Just like no perfect appliance choice, there is no perfect floor either, I guess. I hate the 'close my eyes, hold my breath, and hope' method...

    Bookmark   November 4, 2012 at 1:37AM
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I've read this thred with interest but really had nothing to contribute until today...

On Friday, I stood on a tile over cement floor for three hours helping to frost 20 dozen cupcakes. O.M.G. my legs and knees hurt so badly; even today, my legs sstill feel tired and achey. I have a much greater appreciation for my wood floors.

I think your concern about the comfort of the floor is valid. When I was youngeer, I never noticed these sorts of things, but now, at age 50,, Imost certainly do.

    Bookmark   November 4, 2012 at 8:58PM
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Rhome, it took a while, but here's my take on installing the vinyl plank floor.

The most difficult part was getting started and getting a feel for the material. The directions call for scoring and snapping, and amazingly, that worked, but to do so we needed to score twice with a sharp blade, and I mean sharp. We went through blades like crazy.

For cutting around objects, I like my method of making a template, then cutting. That worked great. Figuring out how to lay the planks to leave no length shorter than 12 inches was a challenge, and to be honest, we cheated. We needed 2 boxes of planks, and it was close, so we scrimped in areas that won't see a lot of traffic. I would urge you t start in the location that is least visible just to give yourself some peace of mind.

Our was adhesive, and very sticky. When laying the tile I found it best to fit a corner, then the edge very tightly before laying it down together. It does not separate easily, and in one case, we cracked one of the tabs trying to separate 2 tiles.

Time will tell how it wears, but it feels great underfoot, and in my opinion is very DIY friendly. I've included a photo which shows the floor.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 1:16PM
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Thanks, so much, Mabeldingeldine! Our flooring guy said adhesive isn't necessary and makes the installation much tougher... Not sure whether to believe him or not. Being diehard DIYers, Hubby is not convinced at my idea to pay for professional installation. I could probably face 2 boxes and a floor the size of a bathroom, but we'll have approximately 18 boxes to put in, and he has no time to do the list that already existed before the floor acted up. That makes me nervous...

But, really, thanks. The floor looks great!!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 2:20PM
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Rhome, I was unclear, the adhesive I was referring to is on the plank tabs -- each tab has adhesive and they stick together. The floor "floats."

If you are looking at 18 boxes, I would definitely hire out, and I almost always prefer to do things myself, my way. But 18 boxes... yikes.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 7:45PM
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Ohhh. I've got it now. Ours has an interlocking edge, so no adhesive.

Yikes is right!! It was ok with the Marmoleum Click that was bigger and stiff, so easier to handle and click together. The salesman said the vinyl tile had more of a learning curve, where you'd have to get used to it and develop a system. Right now, I just want it done. That's sort of selfish for me to say, and hard, since we DIY EVERYthing... but I'm tired, and I see that DH is, too!

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 8:36PM
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mabeldingeldine - what brand of vinyl planks are in the pic you posted? I'm still trying to decide what flooring to put in a few rooms. Don't know yet if I want to go with a wood look or not - but I like the one you posted.

hags00 - is the one you posted Allure traffic master?

    Bookmark   November 25, 2012 at 11:44PM
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Steph, the one we have is Shaw's brand in Harvest. I don't think next to our wood floor it will fool anyone, but it looks pretty good in our small bath, and was fairly easy to install. If it ever needs to come out, we'll have a nice template for sheet flooring.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2012 at 6:37AM
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Yes, it is their white color even though there is no white in it!

    Bookmark   November 26, 2012 at 5:25PM
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thx mabeldingeldine and hags00! I will look them both up and find where I can see them locally.

I am so tired of looking at and thinking about 'what' flooring!

hags00 - I wouldn't want real white floors but yours looks fine to me. I want something that isn't too dark and has very little pattern. Yours fits both of those! oh, and the puppy fur wouldn't show on it - lol!

btw rhome - what color is your dog?

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 12:14AM
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One of our dogs is a German Shepherd mix, so black and tan. The other is a yellow Lab, so gold-beige... why do you ask?

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 2:37AM
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Rhome -

I didn't spot this thread earlier, but will add my two cents. I'm a few years older (58) and also live in the PNW. We have tile floors in the bathrooms (heated) and tile at the front entry and mud room that is unheated. I'm thankful every day that we don't have unheated tile floors in the kitchen. Too hard and too cold. And it's the kind of cold that goes through a thick pair of socks unless they are wool. I tend not to wear shoes in the house, and those tile floors are a chilling surprise every time I stand on them for more than 15 seconds.

We did pre-finished hardwood which is a bit more forgiving in a lot of ways. This is a beach house and we have a large dog who refuses to let anyone (including the vet techs) near her with nail clippers, plus wet and sand. We have oak that's kind of a busy grain in sort of a honey color. It hides just enough, and I don't sweat the patina it will get over the years. When it gets bad, we'll have it refinished.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 3:04AM
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"One of our dogs is a German Shepherd mix, so black and tan. The other is a yellow Lab, so gold-beige... why do you ask?"

You want to join the 'does your dog/pet match your kitchen' thread don't you?

It sounds like maybe you could use both colors of that flooring in your kitchen. divide the room in fourths... do it half and half... or stripe it!


    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 3:55PM
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Thanks for the input, Rainwood. I am tired of being cold, and really want no more reason to add to the problem! So I think the vinyl tiles will suit better.

Desertsteph, I think the yellow lab does kind of blend, and I really have no wish to match to the kitchen to the black one! She matches one of the cats, so that will have to do. ;-) What I do want the floors to match is the mud they might bring in on their feet! lol

And BTW, everyone, I think I'm now leaning back to the grayish flooring. It's the safest in terms of being close to what we have, and it was the one that grabbed me initially. I also prefer the more natural graining, and am a little afraid of the variation I may find in the brown flooring. Plus, I'm still liking the beach house feel of it, which is hard to explain, but feels relaxed and warm to me. I stopped and spoke to others at the flooring store today and am satisfied I'm not giving up any quality in choosing it over the brown.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 4:16PM
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Steph - I felt the same way about it...it never looked dirty! It was mostly gray with a bit of taupe in it, I just have no idea why the color name was "white".

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 4:45PM
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92563rhome - you should be safe with both dogs and the grey floor. my pup is reddish brown and her shed fur blends in with my kitchen / hall flooring that is greyish beige.

hags00 - "mostly gray with a bit of taupe in it"

that sounds just like what I need for the floors butting up to my kitchen/hall area which is greyish beige. I don't have enough of it tho to do all of the rooms I have left to do. Our HD has the 'white' so I'll go in there later this week with a sample of what I have to see how they look together.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 8:51PM
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Fori is not pleased

You know how I feel about sheet Marmoleum in grey.

even with celery!

    Bookmark   November 27, 2012 at 10:32PM
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Funny... I run across those pics every once in awhile and think, "There's Fori's gray and celery combo!"

    Bookmark   November 28, 2012 at 1:03AM
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