Please help!!! TAking down wall and gutting kitchen

teebooOctober 14, 2013

I have hired a kitchen designer and her concept was horrible. This is a small cottage on creek. Taking down wall between living room and kitchen which will make the area (inside dimensions) 23.6 length x 20 ft in living room and 17.8 ft in kitchen area (window in kitchen). We are considering removing the window in the kitchen. Door beside cabinets goes to laundry room

Wall to right of laundry room door is 8'6" (102"). Wall (L part of kitchen) will be 105" (stove presently located.

I hope you can follow this

I am planning to move the refrigerator to 105" wall with a pantry beside or to the left of the laundry room wall. Stove will be centered on the wall with window (which may be removed) or on the 105" wall if refrigerator is beside the laundry room door.
Island will be built for sitting/dining as well as sink, dw and storage.

I am considering using mirrors for back splash so can see water while cooking or prep and make area appear larger. Using white cabinets and appliances. Would like some open display cabinets either at top of cabinets or just over refrigerator and pantry. These are all thoughts not set in stone.

I need suggestions please. Thanks, Jen

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Hi Jen,

Welcome here! One of the things that would be helpful if you are asking for layout advice is to give us a rough drawing of what the space is like (where are windows, doors that can't/won't move, etc.). You'll find a lot of people are helpful here, but it's certainly easier for everyone to help if we can get a visual representation of your place as a sketch with some dimensions.

Also, what other suggestions are you looking for? Cabinetry, colors, style, products, etc? What do you like and dislike about your current kitchen? Who is using it, etc. Give us a bit more info so we can better help you.

    Bookmark   October 14, 2013 at 4:00PM
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Sorry, Jen, I can't picture it either. Sounds like you have a very nice project, though. Please, as Andreak says, more information.

To save yourself from thanking several well-meaning people for ideas that could never be considered, it helps to know that the less info people give the more worthless, and even ridiculous, the suggestions tend to be.

Right now a thread is on that belatedly mentioned a lovely view. Without that information, the initial drawing oriented to it seemed odd and immediately drew recommendations on how it might be...standardized.

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 12:58PM
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How can I upload multiple pictures? I will try to send outside first and then move inside and maybe I can give you all information that you need. I want to use blues, greens and raspberry colors. Thinking about blue on walls and raspberry color in open shelves. I like white cabinets and appliances but also feel they will not stop the eye from traveling straight through the room. I really think I want to use mirrors on my back splash so that people sitting at the island can enjoy the view of the water as they dine rather than look at kitchen cabinets. I also like the small glass tiles in the sea tones of blue green but I still think the mirrors are a better option to bring in the view or possibly use them to frame the mirrors. Tried to scan pictures but did not work. Will try again tomorrow. Thanks

    Bookmark   October 15, 2013 at 10:27PM
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You started y talking about the layout ... that needs to be decided before you worry about colors and tiles. Can you post a drawing of the floorplan?

You can upload one picture per post - just reply to your post and explain what the next picture is.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 6:02AM
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Okay this is layout of area. I have everything written on the photo but I will recount on this email.
1. The side of the pantry shown is facing the front door as seen from drawing. Should I turn facing front door using a cabinet and shelves above with mirrors behind to make a focal point when entering and not feel as though looking straight into a kitchen? Please remember the dimensions and taking down wall between lr and kitchen.

2. Refrigerator cabinet - would it look better to have closed cabinet above or open for display area?

3 and 5: Should these cabinets have a 12" open space above for display and the splash of color since everything is white with old red pine floors? Will send picture so you can see floors. They are gorgeous.

6: Should I put trash compactor here with pull out spice rack or cabinet with drawer?

9: Should I put trash compactor or trash can here or stack of drawers?

11: Floor space is limited so should I use a 33" sink base or a 36" sink base? Cabinet builder wants me to use 36" but all I use a sink base for is to store detergents and kitchen cleaners.

12: Would this be the best place for this trash compactor or trash can? As you can tell, I am at a lose as to where to put trash.
If do not put trash here, could have 24 to 27 inch stack of drawers. What do you suggest?

With this arrangement, I have 40" clearance on each end of the island.

Beside the laundry room door (your picture shows dark door, should I put the pantry if move from beside refrigerator or cabinet with mirrored back or just leave empty as shown? I feel like the island looks like it is overpowering the room since it extends beyond original kitchen wall. If use cabinet or pantry in this location, should I put open shelf above door to connect the cabinets to make it look more like a galley kitchen?

I am using white cabinets which can be distressed or left all white. (What do you think?)

I am using white appliances because I like them and do not like stainless.

I have looked at bianco ramano granite which has raspberry, gray in it. Any suggestions? I plan to use all white because I think that it will allow the eyes to flow in this small space rather than stop. Was even thinking about no upper cabinet doors but reconsidered that thought.

I like the blue green glass tiles but think mirrors would allow people dining at island to view the water rather than look at a kitchen. Suggestions here?????

This is not in stone and if you have better layout plan, please let me know. I am open to any and all suggestions. You can see the dimensions. Plan to use an antique (which will be distressed) fold up card table in lr between 2 chairs that can open to 4 top table in case people prefer to sit at table to dine, play cards or work on a puzzle as this is a weekly rental.

Thank you

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 8:51AM
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View of kitchen. Hope this helps. Window will be removed from kitchen for arrangement.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 8:55AM
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View of kitchen. Hope this helps. Can see the 36" opening beside the pantry/refrigerator in drawing. We will be extending wall out another 17" to make it 105"

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 8:58AM
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View through the windows. This is what I want to enjoy while in kitchen and guest to enjoy while dining.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 9:00AM
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What are your options for moving the door to the outside? What about the door to the laundry room? The latest layout seems to waste a bunch of space on the left side. I would suggest trying to utilize as much wall space as possible and consider a peninsula instead of an island. You could put the cleanup sink under the window on the outside door wall.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 12:21PM
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Could not move the door to the outside. Have thought about moving door into laundry room but to costly as it has brick steps down and would have to move washer and dryer so that is not an option. What is the difference between a peninsula and an island? So are you suggesting flipping the entire kitchen to outside wall rather than inside wall?

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 1:10PM
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I agree that I need to utilize as much wall space as possible that is the reason that I was wondering about extending kitchen to left of laundry room door with cabinets or the pantry but do not want to close in too much so it is claustrophobic when enter from outside. Cannot move doors and the view on east side is our parking and next door neighbor. The view is front of house and water so that is what I want to focus on; hence thought about mirrors. Thanks Jen

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 2:57PM
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What a charming house and great view, Teeboo. That's a very evocative picture--definitely conveys the idea. :)

1. I personally would always try to create an attractive view from the entry, so naturally I think that's a great idea.
2. IMO, closed above the fridge. Open would encourage people to look up there, and you'll have better places to direct attention.

As for the others, Teeboo, I would continue trying for a better layout, from which would come those answers. It's my feeling that a genuinely satisfying layout (and in your case happy, lovely view) will give enduring pleasure permanently. Long after the delight of bringing home the pretty stuff is past and it's tired and out of style, a well thought out workroom will be there to enjoy.

Now, as for being unable to move the exterior door? You have a pair of windows directly to its left. Moving it there would be a minor task that would, all by itself, be a small revolution in layout possibilities. A pair of French doors, perhaps, if there isn't a privacy issue?

You could then fill in that left corner with refrigerator and food storage, still close to the stove. The corner to the right of the stove, instead of being dark and cramped, would then become a pleasant place to work. Because you had created additional storage, you could also leave the window there for natural light and peeks out, and to make the area feel large and open.

Or leave the door outside there, but move the laundry room door over toward it. I understand that you don't want to, but there is SO much to be gained. We all have our priorities, but I personally wouldn't hesitate to allocate my granite budget if that's what it took to get a kitchen I could enjoy working in. As for brick steps, you could jackhammer them out when you move the plumbing and replace them with wood steps.

It's really a question of what you would gain in return for the investment. Have you drawn layouts with these changes made so you know what the tradeoffs are?

Is the water on view for the cook when working at the island? Right now the island problem is that it's not in a good position for meal prep, which takes most of the time we spend in the kitchen -- significantly more than cleanup. If the view is behind the sitters, I would want to prep there, facing the view -- if I could fix the location problem. There is a fix. :) Moving the laundry door would allow me to slide the stove down opposite the island so that I could just pivot from one to the other (as I do now).

The cleanup, and its mess, could then be moved away from where people sit for eating and socializing and instead go where the refrigerator is now shown, again with the window still there to glance out of.

BTW, there would also be other, different layout options with the laundry room door moved over because you would have plenty of room, and no need to scrunch the kitchen into the right corner.

If moving the laundry door is just too much after getting estimates, then definitely moving the outside door and placing the refrigerator and pantry there would in itself make a world of difference. Also a visual difference--I agree with your thought that extending the kitchen from wall to wall would make visual sense of the island placement and also balance what is currently a very unbalanced picture -- scrunched and cramped to the right, empty to the left.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 3:29PM
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I'm confused. Which wall is your water view in your projected kitchen? Is it the wall with the door and windows?

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 3:49PM
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I like your view...and the picture of your garden! :)

Just wanted to share a picture I've always enjoyed...are these the colors you'd like to use? From 1920s kitchen project

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 3:53PM
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Picture number 4

Stand in front of the refrigerator, remove it and the wall and you are looking directly into water view. That is the reason that we are taking down the wall as we want to enjoy the view while in the kitchen.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 4:23PM
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Planning on using blue on walls, raspberry accent and greens. Sea tones. Thanks for your picture.

    Bookmark   October 16, 2013 at 4:24PM
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Teeboo, you've probably noticed how fast this forum moves and posts scroll down and away. Of your 3 posts, this one has had the most response, so I'm bumping it up. Maybe you could post your latest thoughts?

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 5:27PM
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Went to big box store this morning and asked them to redraw kitchen layout. Your responses made me start thinking last night and redesigning in my mind. I cannot move any doors or windows as we have already spent a small fortune on this property. If you could imagine dirt floors, gray almost dead floors and imagine worse .... well you get the picture. Also I want to keep as much of the integrity of this home as possible as some of the original family members are my neighbors.

That being said, moved pantry to left of laundry room door. Would you put 3 drawers at bottom of pull out shelves behind closed doors as small door above? Or would you have small door above pull out shelf closed doors open as in kitchen area?

Would you have a shelf over laundry room door to tie the 2 sections together?

If put shelf over door, would you omit open shelves on either side of the stove? or leave them open?

I really need your advice. Please keep in mind that I cannot move the doors or windows....

Thanks, Jenn

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 5:37PM
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Floor plan, on graph paper, please.

For instance in your drawing above you have written "15" on either end of the table behind the seats.

Does that mean you have 15 inches between the back of the chairs and the wall or fridge front? Or does it mean something else? Without the measured, square-by-square data I can't tell.

Anyway if it is 15" between chair back and fridge (and even for wall) it won't work. You need a much smaller table/island because you will need a minimum of 36-45", e people would say 5 feet,between chair and obstacle like a fridge in a passageway like that.



    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 6:50PM
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Agree with other requests above. Please draw your layout on graph paper and write in all of the measurements. If possible, draw a layout of the entire first floor of the home drawn to scale and post that to this thread. Then also scan in a closeup of just the kitchen area of your drawing.

Also, please try to keep everything in one thread. Multiple threads get way too confusing for us all.

You could greatly benefit by spending several hours reading the following thread and clicking through to the links in the thread and reading those. There is a section in that thread with instructions on how to ask for layout help and what we need to be able to help you.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:22PM
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The # 15 on each end of island stands for the question # 15 which is stating there is 40" walk space between fridge and the island and 40" island to wall. All the numbers on that drawing are references specific items on the drawing
1. The pantry should it be a pantry or cabinet turned toward front door.
2. Refrigerator cabinet (opened or with doors
3. 30" cabinet with 12" open cabinet at top???
and so forth

Thanks for your response. Jenn

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:27PM
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Thank you... That is what I have wanted. Will do graph tonight. I thought drawings from designer would be best but I will certainly give it a try and get it online tomorrow. Thanks again. Jenn

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:32PM
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Please read the new to kitchens thread angela attached. Take your time.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:38PM
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Oh, one other suggestion . . . Open up each of your other 3 threads and click "Edit Post" on your top post in that thread. Copy all of the following that is in italic & paste it at the top of the Message block where it allows you to edit your message. Leave the text you already have and just paste this in exactly as shown at the beginning of it, then preview, and submit. This will direct everyone to this one thread so you can keep everything together.

<b>Please do not reply on this thread.</b>
Please go to the following thread to reply. Thanks !!
<a href="">;</a>;

    Bookmark   October 18, 2013 at 7:39PM
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