one last attempt at a new kitchen layout

illinigirlOctober 29, 2013

I'm going to post my current layout as I'm going forward with, then one last possibility. Please tell me if the new one works better than the current one.

New:
[img][/img]

You will have to ignore some of the typed in items in the plan that the designer has, those kitchen details were never correct. I have shaded in the island dimensions and crossed out some of the other writings that weren't accurate

Current:
[img][/img]

On the 'current' plan I will probably increase the aisle width per GW suggestion.

On the new plan my island shortens a foot, takes the main sink/cleanup area out of the island, and puts a prep sink on one side of the island farthest from the new location of the cleanup sink. BUT the sink is in a corner, not sure if that's wise, and I'm not sure if 1) I could still have seating on two sides of the island and 2) if I could switch the position of the d/w and sink because that puts the d/w in a corner.

Putting the cleanup sink against a wall is a dealbreaker for me. I just can't do it. Continued thanks for all the inputs. I've taken every single one to heart as I work through the kitchen layout even if I do not ultimately make all the changes suggested here at GW. :)

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chicagoans

It looks like your prep space is better in the new one. In the new plan, I like that you have most of the island to prep, right near the cooktop. If you put a pullout trash at the end of the island opposite the prep sink (right side of the island in the picture) then it would be handy for prep and for clean up.

I also like in the new plan how the peninsula encourages foot traffic (e.g. from dinette to refrigerator) to the far side of the island rather than through the work zone. In fact it looks like you could make the peninsula longer so the sink isn't right in the corner.

In the corner that results from the intersection of cooktop run and peninsula, you could have a cabinet that faces out toward the dinette, for storing placemats, table cloths, etc., and therefore avoid a blind corner in the kitchen.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 10:53AM
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lavender_lass

I like the idea of the peninsula, but I think it will crowd your table too much.

Chicagoans is right about the traffic pattern...what if you swap the fridge and ovens? That would put the fridge much closer to the table and give you a nice baking area :)

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 11:37AM
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cj47_gw

I like the second layout as well. The prep sink is handy to the places you need it (fridge, cooktop), and leaves you that nice big space to work on, with friends sitting around the island chatting as you prep. I'd prefer that to having them sit around the cleanup sink, where there are pans soaking, dishes waiting for their turn in the dishwasher, etc. :-) I would definately put a pull out trash near that prep sink. I have two in my kitchen, a small one by the prep sink and a larger one with recycling near the cleanup sink. It was worth the space I gave them.

Agreed that the peninsula is great for keeping people out of the work zone, but I wouldn't make it any longer, due to potential crowding of the people sitting on that side of the island. I'm not sure I see the problem with the cleanup sink nearer the corner, as long as there is room next to it on either side. I wouldn't put it next to a wall, of course, but it does look like there is enough space next to it to work comfortably.

Cj

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 12:16PM
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illinigirl

ok, so I have to decide whether my dining table will be crowded. I measured about 10'9" of space to accomodate the table which is 40" wide. That leaves 7'5" space for aisles on each side, which is 3 foot on one side and 4'5" on the other, or I could cheat towards the wall a couple of inches and get a bit over 4.5'. Remember there will be no seating on the dining side of the peninsula.

Other thoughts: Fridge cannot be recessed if I move it to the other wall.

Sink in corner: fine or not fine?
Seating on the short side of the island: enough room with d/w behind (part of) it, or not enough room? Ideally I'm having spots for 2 people on the short side at least some of the time.
Trash by prep sink: definitely! I imagine there should be a second trash by the cleanup sink- best location for that?

other considerations? I made the peninsula 3 foot deep but that was guesswork. Is that the correct depth? I could have a raised ledge behind the sink for splashing and for 'hiding' the sink from the dinette, but not sure how aesthetically pleasing that will be.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 1:11PM
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lavender_lass

Do you access the outside with that slider? Then you'd have a walkway past the table, not just around the table...and I think it might be too tight. If you don't use the slider, then it might work...or you could use a banquette and get a little more space that way. Just an idea :)

If you can make it fit, I like the prep sink on the island best...and the fridge and oven locations look better in that plan, too.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 1:30PM
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illinigirl

lavendar lass,
yes that slider goes to the outside. The last thing I want is for things to be too tight.

Our existing kitchen has a similar setup with a slider at one end of our dinette and a peninsula running along the long end of the dining table similar to the 'new' plan, BUT the big difference is that our existing peninsula has seating that backs into the same aisle that the dining seating backs into, and i hate how tight it is. I've got just about exactly 4 feet from the edge of my peninsula to the dining table. So both the stools and the dining chairs share the 4 foot aisle. Maybe I'm overestimating how room it would feel with the same space but seating ONLY from the dining table and not the peninsula.

I would HATE for things to end up feeling cramped. But on the other hand the slider is mainly used in the warm months which is literally only 3-4 months of the year. And I can't imagine that we would be accessing the slider area at the same time people are sitting at the dining table. (We mostly eat at the island anyways).

Given a blank slate how much space would be ideal for the path between the peninsula and the dining table?

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 1:45PM
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illinigirl

Anyone else? This is a pretty major change if we go ahead, so I'd like a bit more input before deciding.

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 5:55PM
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liriodendron

Can't see any point in having so much seating at the island in the same room as the dining table. If they were seperate spaces, I could see it as the stools would be for meals eaten in the kitchen. But you're already eating in the kitchen since the DR table is there. Why devote so much real estate to redundant eating positions?

I know it's trendy these days, but I think it will be one of those things that goes out of fashion because aesthetically, looking at the backs of unoccupied tall stools when you're sitting at your dining room table seems like a problem.

Just my two cents!

L.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 6:11PM
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illinigirl

thanks L,
I dunno, that's just how we roll. We have a casual dining table right next to our peninsula overhang in our current house, and we always eat at the peninsula seating. I find it convenient to prep casual meals and push the plates over to the kids sitting on the other side. One of my goals for the new kitchen was definitely to be able to accommodate the whole family (5) at the island. There is no formal dining room in my house plan. We've got the casual dining table in the 'dinette' area, and seating at the island. That's two eating spaces, which I think is just right for our family.

Our stools don't have backs, so they tuck neatly under the overhang when not in use. It doesn't bother me in the least.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 6:26PM
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lavender_lass

Maybe something like this?

From [Kitchen plans](https://picasaweb.google.com/113704953485102437421/KitchenPlans02?authuser=0&feat=embedwebsite)
    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 6:45PM
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cj47_gw

I have an island that's about the same size as yours, with seating for 4 (5 could, and have, fit). My dining room table is not 6 feet away in the same room. We love it. We usually eat at the island. It's a casual, comfortable spot. But, when we don't eat at the island, there are usually guests. My dining room table seats up to 10. There is usually tons of food, because I like to cook and guess where all of the stuff that won't fit on the table goes? Yep, the island. It also makes a spectacular and easily accessed buffet, or a "kids table" at Thanksgiving. There is also no formal dining room in my house--the island and the table to the side, that's it. We are pretty casual bunch. No regrets here, we like it. I like backs on my island chairs because I think it's more comfortable that way.
To each their own, right?

My $.02, too. :-)

Cj

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 7:58PM
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sena01

Sink in corner would be fine imo. For island seating and dining table did you check NKBA's guidelines? I think nos. 5 and 33 cover these.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA Guidelines

    Bookmark   October 29, 2013 at 9:23PM
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illinigirl

Thanks Sena01,

looks like the guideline for seating plus traffic is 65". I am well short of that in the second plan.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 8:31AM
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joaniepoanie

I would want some counter/landing space next to my microwave ...can you shove the fridge down a little and have a smaller message center? I'm just not sure if it would work well to pull something hot out of the micro and have to turn around and put it on the island.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 9:47AM
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sena01

I think 65" is to be measured from the edge of the table to the edge of the peninsula. I remember seeing an illustration showing needed aisles behind seaters somewhere in this forum, but couldn't find them now.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 9:47AM
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illinigirl

joanie,
the micro is raised off of the counter (18" just like the upper cabinetry) so there is landing space immediately underneath it.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 10:02AM
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illinigirl

lavendar lass,
i do like the idea of a banquet. That would probably get us our needed space for the second design. In fact the house we toured with a similar design had a banquet just like you drew out, with tall narrow built ins on either side of it.

thanks!

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 10:09AM
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lavender_lass

The built-ins would be great and give you a place for cookbooks and display. A banquette on one side still gives people the option of a chair if they prefer....but also gives you a comfy spot to sit and read a book or do homework...or just relax and have a cup of coffee :)

    Bookmark   October 30, 2013 at 10:58AM
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