can you have pocket cabinet doors with frameless cabinets?

michoumonsterSeptember 23, 2012

Hi all, I love those cabinets that have pocket doors that can slide back inside the cabinet. I was thinking it would be ideal to use one of these as a microwave cabinet. But I was wondering if it is possible to have this feature with frameless full overlay cabinets? It seems full overlay means the door must be larger to cover everything but then if the door is larger, it cannot fit and slide into the cabinet. Is this correct?

Please let me know if you have frameless cabs and also a pocket door. thank you!

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Yes totally doable. Hafele, a hardware mfr makes this type of retractable hardware for cabinet doors. They can only be used on framekless cabinets.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 8:36PM
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Really? I've never seen any that didn't require framed cabinets. Got a link, please?

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 8:45PM
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I'm doing a concealed microwave (when we can actually get a GC...different story for a different day). And for it, we are planning on a barrister style door opening (it is one door and it opens upward and retracts in at the top of the cabinet). I felt that I would prefer one cabinet door to open as opposed to two for the microwave. And then we are doing a concealed small appliance cabinet that will have two doors and open the way you are mentioning for your microwave, although that may change to a barrister style also depending on if I can get enough height to that cabinet.

But you are correct that if the doors are full overlay, they will cover everything. It doesn't matter if the cabinet is framed or frameless.

What you need to do is have the doors for that cabinet NOT be full overlay but instead you'll do a flush/inset/furniture style door for that cabinet.

There is an alternative to the two things I mentioned above that allows you to have the door lift upwards and it holds open up that way - that option allows for a full overlay door since it doesn't need clearance to retract inside the cabinet...drawback to it is that it blocks any cabinet that is above it while you are using the microwave.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 11:26PM
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Here is the hafele link

Here is a link that might be useful: hafele pocket door/frameless

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 7:42AM
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Thanks, localeater. So you do need inset frameless, as andeak said. Sigh. I was so hoping for something that would magically work with full overlay frameless.

Thanks for the link anyway. I looked on their site and couldn't find it.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 10:43AM
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You can do pocket doors on frameless. They do not have to be inset. Actually you can get closer to a full overlay look with frameless than framed. It all depends on the hinge system used. KV with Salice hinges and an adapter plate has the largest available overlay (last I did them). How it lays out is challenging.
Keep in mind that the doors stick out from the cabinet, which can interfere with the micro door. And you need between an extra 4-9 " of width depending on hinge and use of panels.
Also of note: so far I have only been to one home where these were installed and seen them actually closed. That was a kitchen(frameless full overlay) I did with under counter laundry behind pocket doors.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 11:04AM
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I have done TV cabinets this way. You have to make an opening using the adjacent cabinets as the side walls and mount the hardware on those walls. It is technically tricky to do because all of the adjacent cabinets have to hang very true for the hardware to function properly. If you are using a custom cabinet maker discuss it with them. I used Hafele hardware but the perfectly square opening matters more than the hardware manufacturer.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 11:07AM
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Andreak, thanks for the detailed explanation. A barrister door sounds nice too since it is only one door to open and close versus doing two doors.
Jakuvall and khat, thanks for adding your expertise! it sounds like it is not an easy task and you actually still end up with partial overlay? the hafele link localeater provided mentioned that it can do overlay of 3/8 inch. the KV Salice specs also seem to indicate only 3/8 inch overlay. Would 3/8 inch overlay look close enough to full overlay? How much does a full overlay door cover? Would full overlay cover 3/4 inch since most cabinets are built using 3/4 ply?
Maybe if the partial overlay is not too noticeable, then it makes sense. Otherwise maybe it is better to have a lift-up door.
I found this one by blum. any others you guys can recommend?
Blum Aventos HL
Thank you all!

Here is a link that might be useful: blum aventos lift up door

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 7:25PM
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If you can use the adjacent cabinets as the sides and attach the hardware to those you will have the same reveal as on your other frameless cabinets. In other words, the outside of the adjacent cabinets become the inside of the middle cabinet. But you do have to make sure everything is plumb and level. With the aventos you have to watch the clearances. There are different styles, and each has its pros and cons depending on the physical realities of your space and what you are trying to access. With the one you show, "HL", you need a lot of ceiling height. There are other models that have different clearances. Are you using a local cabinet maker? They should be able to assist you with this.

Here is a link that might be useful: Blum Aventos Lift Systems

    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 8:05PM
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khat, thanks for the detailed info on how to do the pocket door. the location I want for my pocket door is a standalone hutch cabinet, so i won't have adjacent cabinets. but maybe since it will be a standalone piece, i might do inset frameless here. Or i will look into the lift-up doors.
i will discuss with my potential cabinetmakers. Just wanted to arm myself with knowledge beforehand to make sure I know what is doable and not. Thanks again!

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 3:35PM
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