Please help me fix this layout

latenthartSeptember 29, 2013

Please help me fix this layout. To be clear, this is not new construction. My house was built back in 1988. I just happen to have the plans from the previous homeowner.
I am looking to remodel the kitchen, however the layout is odd. I know there has to be a better way to do this. I am open to combining the dining and kitchen area.

The stove is propane gas but I am fine with moving it if necessary (no natural gas in my area). I am also fine with moving plumbing. I have a full basement with a drop ceiling underneath the kitchen, so access is not a problem.

Here a few ideas that are being thrown around.

1. taking down the wall completely or half way between the dining room and kitchen.
2. taking down the wall between the kitchen and the hallway
3. adding a second entrance to kitchen off of hallway.
4. removing bay window (eeek)

I am not much of a cook :P
However I do like to entertain, so function for parties is a must.

Things that have to change:.
1. I don't like the way the bathroom door opens into the kitchen.
2. Would be nice if dishwasher was just a little further from stove. Currently, I am in the way when I am stacking dw while hubby is cooking.
3. Doorway between kitchen and dining is too narrow, always traffic jams there when we have parties.

Things to consider when designing:

My priority is function while entertaining guests.

The bottom left hand corner of the kitchen (the one closest to the dining room) contains a supporting beam. It would be to expensive to eliminate this beam, so I have to have some sort of beam here for support.

The stairway you see gives us access to second floor, but directly underneath it is our basement stairs. The basement entrance is in the hallway.

I can not close off doorway all the way to right of kitchen as it gives garage and sunroom access.

We only have one child, a boy, 17yrs old. His messy room is in the "guest room". Not looking to change the size of my sons room. Currently 12' x 12' 10"

This post was edited by latenthart on Tue, Oct 1, 13 at 7:47

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lisa_a

I can't make out any of the dimensions for the space. We really need this before any of us can help you. See the link below to see the dimension info we need.

Also, can plumbing etc be moved? Are you on a slab or do you have a crawl space or basement? Do you want to maintain formal and informal eating areas or would you be okay with combining the current DR, kitchen and kitchen nook? Heads up, if you choose the latter and it's not the norm in your area, it may hurt you at resale. How big is the guest room? Is your 17 year old the only child at home?

Here is a link that might be useful: New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me!

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 1:22AM
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latenthart

Ok, I think I have addressed all of your questions. Please take a second look at my post. Once you have assured me I have corrected everything, I will delete our back and forth posts as not to confuse future readers.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 8:35AM
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lisa_a

I think you've addressed my questions but I won't know until I've played with it a bit. No need to delete posts (you can't delete my post anyway, only yours). People will catch on, GWers are pretty smart. ;-)

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 2:18PM
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lisa_a

Need another dimension: how wide is the hallway between kitchen wall and stairway door? 36"? 42"?

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 2:32PM
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latenthart

the hallway is 36"

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 3:44PM
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lisa_a

Thanks.

The following idea is a bit conceptual because I had to guess at dimensions in a few places, either because you didn't supply them (the length of the far right kitchen wall) or because I had a hard time reading them on the plan (the DR width). So you'll need to take this idea and check it against actual measurements. btw, you should doublecheck all measurements, don't rely on the construction plans because things do change during construction and the plans could be off an inch or more IRL. Don't forgot to include wall width (generally 4.5") when calculating a space without a wall in place. I also didn't know how you used all the closets shown in your plan so I may have inadvertently removed needed storage.

The goal was to create a more open plan that is conducive to entertaining while blocking the view into the bathroom as much as possible.

I completely removed the DR wall (you'll need to investigate support for this wall to be sure this plan is doable) and part of the wall between kitchen and back hallway, ending it where the closet starts. You could create an arch or some other feature to give the back hallway a sense of separateness from the kitchen/DR area. You'll likely need to replace the bay windows to be counter height.

The peninsula seats 4 comfortably, casual daily seating for you, DH and son, but could seat up to 5 (a bit cozy but doable).

The DR is wide enough for a 42" x 72" table with a 24" buffet table on the left wall with plenty of room around the table and between the peninsula so that people can easily walk behind seated diners at table and peninsula. If your table extends to 112" (seats 10 comfortably), you have the room for it with 44" clearance at both ends, provided you temporarily move the buffet and no one sits on the long side of the peninsula (use the peninsula as a buffet).

I added a prep sink that can double as a bar sink when you entertain. The 36" cab to the left of the fridge can be your beverage center/snack area (MW drawer with pull-out cab next to it, perhaps for liquor storage with drink glasses in cab above). I'd like to put the DW on the far right wall, perpendicular to the sink but I wasn't sure if there is enough room to do this. I think you need at least 24" of floor space between the front of the sink and an open DW door but I can't recall the specific guideline to be sure about this. If this isn't possible and the DW goes to the left of the sink, you shouldn't have the issues you currently have since you have more room to prep in this plan.

I'm sure I forgot some detail but I've got to run pick up my kid.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 6:18PM
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lisa_a

Oops, I meant to add this image to show you what the sink with bay window area might look like:

Traditional Kitchen by Coronado Architects & Designers Christian Rice Architects, Inc.

Notice that the center window is fixed and the two side windows are casement windows with the handle at the outer edges to make opening and closing the windows easier.

I'm assuming that this area is not more than a 12" to 15" deep, based on its scale compared to the 24" deep cabs on your plan. If so, you should be able to reach the back of the counter and the windows, especially if you're taller than me (almost 5' 4").

I have a corner sink and the back corner is 46.5" from the counter edge and I can't clean it without climbing on a stool and leaning over the counter. It's inconvenient but I know a lot of people with corner sinks who don't mind it in the least. If your bay window is deeper than I think it is and you're vertically challenged like me ;-) you may need to try a set-up more like this one:

Traditional Kitchen by Grants Pass Kitchen & Bath Designers Todd Inman Custom Cabinetry and Design

    Bookmark   September 30, 2013 at 7:58PM
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latenthart

Ok I have updated the measurements again :P

As you had mentioned, the construction plans were not "exactly" accurate. Thankfully, I measured myself before you took your valuable time helping me plan this out. As for the dishwasher, I only have 4 ft on the far right kitchen wall, so the DW will have to go to the left.

There is however a support beam in that wall between the dining room and kitchen that you took down. I added it to the second picture. I believe that removing it is not an option :(

Thank you so much for digging up those pictures of sinks with bay windows! It really helped me visualize the space. After much soul searching, I decided I could replace it with a different type of window. It doesn't have to stay a bay window.

One more slight problem I realized, I have baseboard heating, Currently there is an L shaped piece on the far right kitchen wall and under the bay window. I have no problem moving it... but to where? There is other heating nearby, but I don't think it is enough. The other heating is on the far left wall of the dining room and on the far right wall in the kitchen (in the doorway leading to garage area )

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 8:20AM
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latenthart

Ok I have updated the measurements again :P

As you had mentioned, the construction plans were not "exactly" accurate. Thankfully, I measured myself before you took your valuable time helping me plan this out. As for the dishwasher, I only have 4 ft on the far right kitchen wall, so the DW will have to go to the left.

There is however a support beam in that wall between the dining room and kitchen that you took down. I added it to the second picture. I believe that removing it is not an option :(

Thank you so much for digging up those pictures of sinks with bay windows! It really helped me visualize the space. After much soul searching, I decided I could replace it with a different type of window. It doesn't have to stay a bay window.

One more slight problem I realized, I have baseboard heating, Currently there is an L shaped piece on the far right kitchen wall and under the bay window. I have no problem moving it... but to where? There is other heating nearby, but I don't think it is enough. The other heating is on the far left wall of the dining room and on the far right wall in the kitchen (in the doorway leading to garage area )

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 8:52AM
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debrak2008

What type of baseboard heat? You have a basement?

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 8:57AM
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latenthart

I do have a basement with easy access. I have oil/hot water baseboard heat.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 9:19AM
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debrak2008

Could the hot water lines be run under the kitchen floor? What type of flooring are you considering?

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 10:17AM
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latenthart

The floors are currently oak wood floors as is the entire main floor of the house.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 12:32PM
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lisa_a

Dang, I was afraid there might be a hitch in my drawing. Ah, well, at least it got the ball rolling. Thanks for the extra dimensions.

What do you mean by "I could replace it with a different type of window. It doesn't have to stay a bay window."? Do you mean you'd replace the windows within the current shape or change the shape completely?

You should investigate toe kick heaters for replacing the base board heaters. Talk to an HVAC guy and see what you can learn.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 1:50PM
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latenthart

As much as I love my bay window, I would be open to changing it completely. I suspect I would have to make it smaller in order to accommodate the upper cabinets on the far right kitchen wall.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 1:59PM
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latenthart

excuse my handwriting on these plans, I am using the paint program and attempting to write with my mouse :P

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 3:11PM
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lisa_a

I do the same. My writing was horrible at first but it does improve with practice. ;-)

I looked at where the beam is, compared it to my plan and I think my plan would still work. You'd need to put a post at the bottom corner to support the beam but since that's at the outer edge of the existing DR space (10'6"), it won't interfere with a table, even when extended. Here's the amended image to show you where the post and beam would be (dotted line is the beam).

You could make the beam blend in if you add more beams to the DR like this:

Rustic Kitchen by Atlanta Artists and Artisans Mary Anne Merfeld - Allied Member ASID

Or this:

Eclectic Dining Room

btw, you don't need to eliminate the bay window because of the side cabinets. You can just end the run a foot before the windows and use that wall space to display plates or art. Or you could just leave it blank. (the amended drawing shows a 3' wall of cabinets, not a 4' wall of cabs).

You may also want to consider having that wall of cabs extend to the counter to give you more storage, like this:

Traditional Kitchen by Bethesda Kitchen & Bath Designers Case Design/Remodeling, Inc.

Or this:

Modern Kitchen by Dallas Interior Designers & Decorators RN Interior Design

This photos hows cabs to the counter with shallow display shelving between cabs and window. You could do this, too.

Traditional Kitchen by Cincinnati Architects & Designers RWA Architects

There are ways to work around the windows so don't give up on them before you explore all the possibilities.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 4:17PM
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latenthart

Ive been playing around with layouts that keep the bay window. Of course these are just ideas, I have yet to lay out the measurements.

This post was edited by latenthart on Sat, Jan 3, 15 at 12:22

    Bookmark   October 1, 2013 at 8:24PM
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