Upper cabs and crown molding

eleenaSeptember 27, 2012

I remember seeing pix but cannot find the thread to save my life.

If I remember the pix correctly, the cabinets do not go all the way to the ceiling, leaving room for the molding.

So, if the room has crown molding ("moulding"?), is the molding attached to the ceiling or the cabinets (in areas where it meets the cabinets, of course)?

Also, if the molding is ~5" (we have 9' ceilings), how much space should I leave between the cabinet and the ceiling?

Thanks!

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cabmanct

You are talking about tying in existing wall molding to new upper cabinet molding? If so, then the space would be a function of the height of the molding when its "sprung" ie sitting as it normally would. Then there is also the issue of whether your cabinet crown is top mounted or applied onto a fascia plate.
The profiles of all your moldings have to match also.
This something normally designed in autocad, its not that easy.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 4:44PM
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eleena

No, I'll replace the molding where the cabinets are. I am changing its "profile" anyway (don't know the right word).

From what I have seen, the cabinets are attached to the wall, not the ceiling, and stop 2-3 inches below the ceiling (judging by the pix). The room crown molding then goes in front of the cabinets but IDK how and to what it is attached.

The cabinets themselves do not have a molding. I want them to go to the ceiling, so to speak.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 5:07PM
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cabmanct

Ok,
Lets say that the top of the cabinet is 3" away from the ceiling.

You need to "mount a fascia" on the top of the cabinet. It will be an L shaped piece of molding, the heel would be screwed into the top of the cabinet to hold it it place.
The top of the fascia is held down a little bit from the ceiling, a little gap of air.
Then your crown molding will rest against this fascia and the top of the crown would touch the ceiling.

    Bookmark   September 27, 2012 at 5:28PM
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eleena

Thank you!

So, is 3" is a "standard" gap between the cabinet top and the ceiling?

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 10:45AM
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cabmanct

A 3" drop would give you an appx 4" crown ( depending on the spring angle )There really are no standards set in stone ( except the classical orders ).

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 11:48AM
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eleena

And if the CM is 5" or so, should I leave more room or it does not matter?

I am concerned about being able to open the doors.

Thanks!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 11:58AM
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AboutToGetDusty

I relied on my contractor and the kitchen designer at Lowes, but my understanding is there is no standard amount of room - but there is a standard on cabinet heights. I chose to go with a shorter upper cab to make sure I had plenty of room for the molding...I wanted the molding to be made to look exactly like the molding original to the rest of the house. It was tricky, but the carpenter did an awesome job. Here is the picture of the cabs just installed, with a piece of profile stock sitting on top (we were playing around with what to do).

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 12:04PM
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AboutToGetDusty

Here's the molding, finished. The carpenter just made it fit with the stock cabinets. I would think about what kind of molding you want, and how many layers (there are so many options from simple to ornate) and make sure you have enough space by ordering the right size upper cabs. I wanted the molding to match the rest of the house, as I said, but I also liked the look of a flat stock in between the dentil and the cabinet. I could have ordered a bigger upper cab and not done that flat piece. Good luck!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 12:15PM
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AboutToGetDusty

Oops, sorry - here's the picture!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 12:17PM
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cabmanct

eleena
If you could give me an email address I can send a sketch that should answer your questions
I cant upload a pdf
Steve

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 12:32PM
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eleena

Thank you, AboutToGetDusty, that was helpful!

BTW, I love your screen name. :-)

I don't have any choices for the CM as it is the same around the house. The kitchen has a breakfast nook with no cabs and I am not and I am not going to change the CM there.

Steve,

I have just e-mailed you.

I am not sure if I can receive e-mails from GW. Please let me know on this thread after you send a message, so I know if it does not go through.

Thank you!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 12:52PM
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eleena

Steve,

I received the message, thank you so much!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 1:44PM
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PRO
Sophie Wheeler

Cabinet crown molding is a separate entity to the room's crown molding. It is finished to accent the design of the cabinets and is painted or stained to match the color and style of the cabinets. It DOES NOT have to "match" the room's crown molding, and indeed, looks much better to NOT match. It's an accessory to the cabinet. The room's crown matches whatever other crown that you have in the home and is painted to match the room's trim color. Where the two meet, is is necessary to have an experienced finish carpenter or cabinet installer cope the join, or to do something like a plinth block or molding return as a stopping point for one or the other.

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 2:38PM
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cabmanct

You cannot cope two dissimilar profiles, it wouldn't be "coping" as that is, like profile to like profile.

Better it return below the ceiling crown. Plinth blocks scream afterthought. If you are going to the ceiling then tie it in with the same molding throughout the room

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 3:18PM
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eleena

Hollysprings,

I think I know what you mean (b/c I have cabinetry in other rooms that does not go all the way to the ceiling and those cabinets have their own CM) but I am not entirely sure.

Let me see if I understand you correctly.

My kitchen cabinets will go all the way to the ceiling (at least, visually). They even do so now (well, sort of) but the upper part is a soffit, not an actual cabinet, though they are made to look like one entity - unlike some of the soffits I see in kitchens here. So, there are several places where part of the molding is on the wall and part on the soffit - with no seam. (FYI: The molding is all the same throughout the kitchen/BR and there are seams in other places like in the middle of the wall run with no cabinets and they are very visible.)

In the "new" kitchen, I'll have the same "part on the wall, part above the cabinet" situation, just not as severe. And some of those "runs" are very short and would look weird if done/painted differently - I think.

(Sorry, I am not brave enough to post pix of my house as it has some very recognizable features and I am a "freak" when it comes to Internet privacy.)

FWIW, I do not want to accent the CM, I don't like it to begin with but I am not removing it as it goes with the house style and is expected where I live. Also, I agree that it does give the kitchen a finished look in a setting like mine (although some folks here achieved a high-end look w/o CM).

So, am I wrong to assume that CM around the top of the cabinets is the same the same as everywhere else in the room?

TX!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 3:46PM
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eleena

Forgot to mention: no soffits in the "new" kitchen. :-)

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 3:48PM
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eleena

Speaking of pix:

In "Dusty's" kitchen, the wall with two glass cabs around the sink by the window meets the wall with cabs. Strictly speaking, the molding on the sink wall is the "room CM" while on the other wall, it is the "cabinet CM", if I am not mistaken. I think they should look the same in a setting like this, right?

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 3:56PM
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AboutToGetDusty

Everyone has their own opinion. On my street, the houses are small. And I've seen folks' new kitchens where they opened up the wall between the dining room and the kitchen, and the molding doesn't match, or there is no crown molding, or whatever. To me, it looks disjointed. These are old houses with character. Yes, I wanted a new kitchen with some touches that I liked. But I also wanted to stay true to the house so that the kitchen didn't look disjointed. Somehow strike that balance so there would be nice flow under old house constraints. We had wanted to get rid of that soffit above the kitchen sink...but in the end, we would have had to gut the upstairs bathrooms to do it (that wasn't happening!) So this was our solution. The molding is the same on the cabs and throughout the rest of the house...but the paint is different. Yet imo it all goes well and looks like the same color (must have something to do with the light). The molding on the dining room side of the arch is new (since this arch is new, made to match another arch in the house), but you would never know it. When a guest looks around the top of the dining room, they can't tell where the new and old molding stops and starts. I like that. It looks like it belongs there. Kudos to my carpenter!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 7:14PM
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AboutToGetDusty

Yes, eleena, strictly speaking...I was just trying to create the illusion that the soffit wasn't there...just make it blend in as much as possible to hopefully give the illusion that it's part of the kitchen cabinetry :-)

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 7:16PM
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eleena

AboutToGetDusty,

I was using your kitchen as an example of being done right. Did it sound otherwise? If so, I am very sorry.

I actually like your soffit! With cabinets and the pendant light underneath, it makes the place more interesting - IMHO anyway. And I thought you handled it very cleverly.

Correct me if I am wrong but the CM on the soffit is the same color as the CM above the cabinets, right?

I couldn't see the rest of your kitchen, unfortunately, and wanted to ask to post more pix but thought it was too much to ask. Would love to see your DR if you don't mind.

My soffits are entirely different. They are just these hollow things attached above cabinets. They don't look bad (if I could remove the wall-paper border on them, that is) but I could really use some extra storage space.

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 8:45PM
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Zippity-do-dah

Wowsers! Your kitchen looks terrific!

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 9:43PM
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AboutToGetDusty

Oh, Eleena, please don't take it that way. If I sound crabby, it's because I've been stuck in a house with sick kids all week ;-) And I was just responding to Hollysprings' comment that 'looks much better to NOT match,' which may or may not be the case depending on the kitchen and house.
Yes, the paint used on the molding on the soffit is the same as above the cabinet (Schuler White Icing)...but then the color on the rest of the new and old molding is BM Super White I believe.
We had two empty soffits in our old kitchen which we got rid of.
Here's a link to my new kitchen pics. There are some dining room pictures - I'm in the process of collecting ideas on what to do with it to make it look as good as the kitchen. Any ideas? It's my project for the winter.
Good luck with your reno!

Here is a link that might be useful: Dusty's Kitchen

    Bookmark   September 28, 2012 at 10:11PM
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eleena

Dusty,

How are your kids? I hope they are better?

Thanks for the link. You kitchen has been added to my "idea books". :-)

    Bookmark   September 30, 2012 at 11:33PM
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EAM44

Dusty - I love your kitchen. To me it's one of the best examples of improved form and function (love the corner trash/recycling) while staying true to your existing space. Your choice of materials (and designers too - Lowes did a great job) is fantastic. It really looks professionally done.

For the dining room, I would (don't kill me for suggesting this) paint the walls a lighter shade of grey, widen the opening to the playroom (to access more light, and because it won't always be a playroom), and paint those cabinets (distressed black would be fine, or dark grey with black glaze, but I would stain them mahogany, like your dining table). The china cabs are the wrong scale for the room as well as being the wrong color, and having them along big walls that make them look like bookends just emphasizes the mismatch a bit. If there is enough space you could arrange them so that one is along the wall of the arch, at a 90 degree angle to the one on the right of the door, making a china cabinet corner then put a buffet/serving table on the other wall. Whatever you do, I'm sure it will look beautiful.

    Bookmark   October 1, 2012 at 5:02AM
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AboutToGetDusty

Thanks, eleena, kids and I are finally fever free (thanks to antibiotics) but dh is now sick :-( Can't wait to see what you do with the molding!
EAM44, thanks so much for the compliments and feedback! With the paint colors, I will think about that when it's time to paint our living room and playroom - all at once - probably in another year or two. Our original plan included widening the doorway to the playroom (but with two sliding barn doors possibly that could close it off when wanted)...but it was a budget buster. Maybe someday in the future, or if we decide (and can someday) expand the house in the back). The china cabs were given to us by family - they keep a lot of family-given items - kind of stuck having them there if you know what I mean ;-) Love the idea of distressing them. I was thinking distressed black or grey...what about white? I'm definitely chucking my old table in the winter - I want a narrow rectangular farm table with a bench on one side, darker or lighter than my current table - it would free up more room in the room. And a different chandy. We've tried everything but this seems to be the best place for the cabs (for now). We have so many windows and another arch going from the d/rto the living room and lots of molding...not enough wall space. It's what I love and yet scratch my head about in my charming little house!

    Bookmark   October 1, 2012 at 9:01AM
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