ANOTHER call for layout help...

maggiebkitSeptember 20, 2012

I posted a few weeks ago and got some great feedback. Thank you! However, I realized that instead of deciding on the little things like a 30" or 33" bank of drawers I had to figure out where the big items were going first (fridge/cooktop/oven/micro/sink) and then I could work on the smaller details.

This is a basic drawing of our original, well not original, but the final of many first drafts. The eat in area got cut off as I was trying to make the pictures a little smaller. The issue of only one sink so far from the fridge came up...

So what if we put the sink in the island? Then we don't have to put in a window over the sink. However, when you are in the family room and in the eat in area of the kitchen you are staring at that "top" wall. A window is more interesting than a row of uppers and lowers...

And here it is as an almost blank slate, any and all suggestions welcome.

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Forgot to say THANK YOU!!

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 1:43PM
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B is least in the arrangement you show...the DW opens into the back of the legs of someone working at the cooktop. Plus, all three work zones are crammed into a small space with the majority of countertop "wasted" b/c it's not located where it will be useful.

Do you have full measuremnts? Perhaps it's in the other thread? Could you please link to that thread if all the info is in that thread? Measurements Information on how you use the kitchen, your family, etc. (from the "Layout Help" topic in the "Read Me" thread)

Here is a link that might be useful: New To Kitchens? Posting Pics? Read Me!

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 3:23PM
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You don't have to put in a window just for a sink.

Sinks don't have to be in front of windows.

Windows can be in front of prep space instead of cleanup fact, that's even better (at least to me!) I'd rather have the "view", etc. when I'm prepping b/c I spend far more time prepping than cleaning up, as do the majority of people (at least if they have a DW!)

Windows are for letting in natural light, providing a "view" (whether b/c you like the view or b/c you want to watch children at play), and giving a space an open and/or airy feeling (with large windows, generally).

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 3:27PM
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Thanks for responding Buehl!
The new to kitchen thread is great!
The "top" run is 192", the left side run is 137".
There are 42" between edge of cabinets to edge of island, I know that is a little tight, but we are ok with that.
In the morning there are two people in the kitchen working (husband getting breakfast, me getting breakfast and packing lunch for 2 kids). Rest of the time it's mostly a one person operation.
We don't really entertain, when we do its mostly other families for pizza. I am a bit culinarily challenged!

I see the advantage of having a window, just not sure if we should have that expense. My biggest fear is all this money spent on something that I won't like. I can't even tell you how long we've been talking about this. And the choosing of the cabinets-I'm even driving myself crazy!

Hop that was what you needed!

Thanks again!

Here is a link that might be useful: Other thread

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 4:51PM
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    Bookmark   September 24, 2012 at 11:59PM
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A few more questions...

  • The 42" b/w the island and the left counter and b/w the island and the top counters...are you measuring cabinet-to-cabinet or counter edge-to-counter edge? I'm asking b/c in the majority of cases, counters overhang the cabinets by approx 1.5". So, if it's counter-to-counter, the 42" is a true 42" aisle. However, if it's cabinet-to-cabinet, then the aisles are really 39" wide, not 42".

Is your refrigerator a built-in refrigerator or is it a cabinet depth? Built-ins are around 24" to 27" deep including doors & handles while cabinet depth are around 30" deep including doors & handles. This will also affect your true aisle width. How far is the top wall from the "rectangle" (the wall on the right side)? How far is the left wall from the "rectangle" (the wall on the right side)?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 1:12AM
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What is to the right of the long run of cabinets that ends with the pantry? Is that pantry a cabinetry pantry or a sheetrocked pantry?

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 9:48AM
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I basically have your layout A with a few small differences:
1) the Sink/DW/Ovens are scootched over the left (basically, Sink is in line with the island, also I have double wall ovens);
2) I have a full-depth Fridge but recessed it into the wall so it only sticks out 3-6" past the cabinets, not 9-12." This is very important for your aisle widths.
3) MW is in an upper next to the fridge;
4) My Pantry is located elsewhere.

I love my layout. It works very well even with one sink because I set it up so the island would not be a barrier, which it is in yours. It's really nice to have the long side of the island facing the Cooktop and Fridge. My remodel is still ongoing because my DH is building our cabinets, so we may put a prep sink in the island, but I would NOT want a big cleanup sink and DW in the island. I want my counter and storage space in the island to be for prepwork and prep storage, NOT the sink/DW/dish rack/dish storage cutting it all up.

That said, I would use Layout A but suggest the following:
1. move the Sink (and DW & Trash) to the left. The Sink should be centered on or line up with the left edge of the island.
2. Recess the Fridge into the wall so it only sticks out 3-6" past the cabinets, not 9-12." As previous, this is very important for your aisle widths. I would say this is the most important element to making this layout work.
3. Optional: Since most things that go into the MW come out of the Fridge, put MW next to the Fridge. Put a normal MW on a shelf in an upper or use a drawer MW in a base cabinet. You could then consider switching to double wall ovens if you wanted/budge allows.
4. Optional: If it didn't make the interior or exterior look weird (window size on the elevations, etc) I would also move the Wall Oven to the left and then make the Pantry larger.
5. Optional: One of my huuuuuge regrets is rushing my window installation and choosing a small window, so I would DEFINITELY go for a huge, counter-height window over your sink. Search for erikanh's kitchen to see her stunning window.
6. Optional: I might also widen your island (left to right) so the side facing the Sink/DW can more easily act as a second prep area. I'm not sure if you have the space for that or not since maybe there's a kitchen table or some item that needs to go nearby.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2012 at 10:32AM
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Sorry, I'm so late to respond...
The measurement should be from counter to counter.
We are getting a new fridge and are going with counter depth if we can't recess it in the wall. I guess we may have recess counter depth also...
It is 5'7" from top wall to right rectangular, (that I forgot to draw on this plan, but is visible on original post)
And the kitchen is 13 wide between the cooktop wall and the right wall, and it is 16 feet to the entranceway door

My dreamhome, right now the pantry is sheet rocked, but we are thinking of doing cabinets, though if we left it we could save some money.

Good point about the island being used as prep space, that's why the original layout didn't have a sink in it.
1. So you think the left edge of the sink should line up with the left edge of the island?
2. we are hopefully going to be able to recess the fridge
3. I like the idea of the micro next to the fridge, but then I think that might mess up the look of the cooktop wall, I don't really like microwave drawers, but function first right?
4. I'll play around with this
5. Need to get approval form Homeowner's so I'll need to see how big we can go
6. There is a wall I forgot to draw on the right on this layout so I can't make the island too much bigger

Thank you all so much!

    Bookmark   September 30, 2012 at 3:48PM
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It seems weird to me to have the fridge so far from the microwave. The vast majority of the time, if you're microwaving something, you just got it out of the fridge or freezer. Also, most of the things you'll need to wash before prepping/cooking will come from the fridge too, so you have to think about how far you want to carry it.

Without seeing measurements and the locations of things like windows, doorways, exterior walls etc. I may not be able to give you advice you can use, but I would probably suggest putting the fridge and microwave on the shorter wall and the sink and cooktop on the longer one.

In fact, if by "pantry" you just mean a floor-to-ceiling cabinet (as opposed to a little room or something), I might suggest putting the pantry on the end of the short leg, the fridge to the right of it, and the microwave to the right of that, so all three of them are on the short leg. That way your cooking/cleaning space is separate from your snack space AND people coming from the eat-in area to get milk from the fridge, cereal from the pantry, whatever, are not crossing your cook/prep/clean space to get there. And maybe your coffee maker and toaster could go in that general area too (on the counter to the right of the fridge). That then becomes your breakfast and snack zone, with everything you need right there.

If you did that, then across the top it could go dishwasher, sink, cooktop, wall ovens, with at least 3.5 feet of counter space between the sink and cooktop, and a little bit of counter--say, one foot--between cooktop and wall ovens to give you elbow room while you're cooking and a place to put things like olive oil, a container for spatulas and such, etc.

Also, you could plan on storing your dishes in the upper cabinets that would start to the right of the fridge and continue around the corner--that would put the dish storage close to the dishwasher, which is obviously preferable, and yet it would also be close to the area where people are putting snacks together, getting drinks from the fridge, microwaving stuff, etc.

    Bookmark   September 30, 2012 at 4:26PM
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Hi Maggiebit - yes, I think the left side of the sink should line up with the left edge of the island, or the sink should be centered on the island (i.e. the center line of the sink and the center line of the island are the same). The former (left edges lining up) is ideal, but both will work. Either way the corner of the island will not be a barrier in the fridge-sink-stove circuit. Good luck!

    Bookmark   October 4, 2012 at 8:40PM
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