Do appliances have to "match"

sue_sfSeptember 13, 2012

OK, it is 4am and the only thing that would clear my mind so I can go back to sleep is to post here for advice. We are building a new home and it is time for me to decide on these appliances.

Here is my dilemma. DH and I fell in love with the Fridgidaire full size fridge and freezer pair, and kitchen cabinet gal managed to incorporate them into our L shaped kitchen layout. I also want a single wall oven with an Advantium oven above.

Now I am panicked that the fridge/freezer will look terrible next to the Advantium (240 oven) and what I guess has to be the GE Profile oven. Please give me your opinions on these questions or come up with a new ideas!

1) Do I give up the Advantium for an oven/microwave stack? The Advantium is expensive, but I had one in San Fran and loved it.

2)Do I go for a different double oven that looks better next to the fridge/freezer and find a home in the layout for a microwave? 2nd oven won't be used that often, but I feel is needed for resale (if we have to)

3)Am I married to the GE Profile Oven if I go with the Advantium?

4)Should I consider something crazy, like stainless fridge/freezer with black or white Advantium and oven combo? If I did that, would I stick with stainless dishwasher?

We have worked and worked with this layout, so it can't really change. I am going to post separately for help with the corner cooktop hood....

I can only figure out how to insert on shot of the layout. Hope this one helps!

Here is a link that might be useful: Advanitum

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DH and I fell in love with the Fridgidaire full size fridge and freezer pair, and kitchen cabinet gal managed to incorporate them into our L shaped kitchen layout.

I like these too. Also check out the Kenmore Elite and the Electrolux-branded versions of these (all three are similar and manufactured by Electrolux, but have different handles and slightly different feature sets)

Do appliances have to match?

No. I wouldn't mix black, white, stainless steel, and ivory appliances in the same kitchen, or those with drastically different styles, but slight differences are fine.

>Now I am panicked that the fridge/freezer will look terrible next to the Advantium (240 oven) and what I guess has to be the GE Profile oven. Please give me your opinions on these questions or come up with a new ideas!

Why does it have to be the GE Profile oven (assuming you don't mean their unique double 30"w oven that fits in a single-oven space)? As for the Advantium 240, you have five style choices - 3 colors in their Profile line (thousgh only the stainless has illuminated controls), and two looks (both stainless steel) in their Monogram line. The Monogram series has styling that's more generic than the Profile models and thus would fit better when mixed with other brands:

1) Do I give up the Advantium for an oven/microwave stack? The Advantium is expensive, but I had one in San Fran and loved it.

I love these too. They make a fine second oven due to the convection-only mode, three shelves, and fairly large interior space (which was increased substantially about five years ago from earlier models), so just place one over a single oven.

2) Do I go for a different double oven that looks better next to the fridge/freezer and find a home in the layout for a microwave?

no - see above

2nd oven won't be used that often, but I feel is needed for resale (if we have to)

Lots of houses with only one oven sell, and an Advantium stacked over an oven looks (and can work) like a second oven anyway.

3) Am I married to the GE Profile Oven if I go with the Advantium?

no. Look at the Electolux Icon 30"w single wall ovens (both of them, matching whichever Monogram Advantium 240 you get. Or the standard, non-Icon Elecctrolux 30" single oven (two available) that looks good with the non-"professional" or European-styled model. If you want to splurge, get the Gaggenau 30" oven with the side-swing door, which is available either left. or right-hinged. Makes loading and unloading food a snap. But the Electroluxes I mentioned have glide-out racks (more of them on the higher-end models) that accomplish the same thing almost as well.

4) Should I consider something crazy, like stainless fridge/freezer with black or white Advantium and oven combo? If I did that, would I stick with stainless dishwasher?

Probably not, although there are lots of dishwashers that accept cabinet panels that match your other cabinet doors so dishwasher color becomes a non-issue. Cooktop can be a different color and look good, since it's horizontal and usually compared to the countertop which is often a contrasting color.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 6:24AM
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Sophie Wheeler

No, appliances do not have to match.

But that is one of the most dysfunctional kitchen layouts to ever be posted on this forum that came from a "professional". There's no way you have room for those refrigerators or wall ovens or corner cooktop. That kitchen needs a range, and probably a 33" fridge instead of even a full sized 36" fridge. There's not enough counter space, especially in the right spots, to cut up an apple! That corner cooktop is a huge space hog, and the twins belong in a kitchen twice that size.

You SERIOUSLY need to completely rethink this. It's the Kardashians of layouts. Kinda pretty at first glance, but completely dysfunctional when it gets down to basic living.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 7:31AM
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Thank you Lee! You have made my day by giving me some great suggestions!

The reason I was thinking GE Profile oven was b/c of the Profile Advantium. The Monogram is even more $$ than the Profile, so I was trying to stick with Profile, but it seems impossible to find an oven that looks good with it, other than Profile.

I may end up spending quite a bit more in my already-way-over-budget kitchen, but better to spend $2K more and love it than to have spent $30K and hate it! I have driven our builder and my kitchen design gal over the edge, guess it is the appliance salesman's turn! :)

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 7:37AM
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Annie Deighnaugh

stainless and black marry well.

friend of mine has a similar fridge layout, but worked with cabinet people to completely surround the units with cabinetry so it looks like a large hutch and not a fridge/freezer at all. That way it wouldn't have to match the ovens at all.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 7:55AM
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Thank Annie! Depending on how much more the Monogram style Advantium is, and what I could pair it with, I might go with black oven stack. We'll see.

Holly-it is a good thing I have thick skin! :) I was also cut to the quick regarding my corner cooktop on my "cooktop hood" post. I do have a nice large island, with prep sink that overlooks the bay, so the "main" sink and dishwasher kinda makes up the clean up only zone.

Believe me, the kitchen design gal tried desperately to turn me off of both the corner cooktop - yes it is a space hog! AND the fridge/freezer. But, I need that much cold space and putting one in the garage really wasn't an option without thousands more in garage upgrade b/c we are in Northern Michigan. So, I'd rather put the money in the kitchen and have the space there.

Here is the overhead shot - hope it helps me look a little more sane :)
Thanks all for comments!

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 8:09AM
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Sophie Wheeler

Having an island doesn't make up for the total gridlock in the perimeter. If all of those things are "must haves" then you need to look at the floorplan of the home to appropriate space from another area to add to the kitchen. If there is a dining room and breakfast area, then perhaps the breakfast area can be incorporated into the kitchen and you can create a better connection with the dining space in order to use ir more on an everyday space.

As is though, it's a 200 lb girl squeezing into a tube top and size small spandex pants. It's mainly a functional issue, but it's also a aesthetic issue. The whole look is awfully claustrophobic and busy.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 9:56AM
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Sophie Wheeler

Here's with an actual hood and more realistic stool spacing. Most people will be very uncomfortable in a space with suc massive tall wall of cabinets and hood overhead. There is no visual relief and it feels psychologically threatening. You need to mock this up with some cardboard to get a feeling of how confining and constraining this is.

Imagine actually taking the pasta and canned tomatoes from the pantry, getting the pasta pot off of the pantry shelf(you don't have a big enough cabinet to store a pasta pot), and then excusing yourself to the person sitting on the end of the island to plunk things down there. You then use the prep sink's pull out faucet to fill the pot, pivot and put it on the cooktop to turn it up to high. Pull a saucepan out from under the cooktop and put it on a burner. Turn around and open the canned tomatoes (WHERE is a can opener going?). Grab some garlic from the tater and onion storage (WHERE is that going? Pantry trip again?) and smash it on a cutting board that you pull out from WHERE? Open a cabinet for the oil (maybe the tiny upper cabinet that you have left to the right of the cooktop?) and drizzle a bit into the skillet to drop the garlic into........and keep going. Where will you keep the knives? Where will the bread go since you've got to have garlic bread?

If you really cook, then this is a kitchen you will HATE working in. If you don't cook, then there are MUCH MUCH more attractive ways to put together a high end kitchen in this space.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 10:34AM
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If resale is important to you, then you need to stop now and do something different here.

If you do all of your meals carryout or frozen and will never move, then add another microwave somewhere else and don't worry about it if you like how it looks, IF you like it. Actually cooking in it will be a lack of storage and counterspace nightmare though.

I'm all about doing what works for you, as in putting in a shorter or taller island if you are short or tall, but this isn't personalizing a kitchen for functional reasons, It's confusing wants with needs and going wild with "do it just because you can" rather than because it makes functional or even visual sense. There will be a lot of visitors to your home who will not care for how it looks and who will just scratch their heads. If something happens such a a job loss or illness and you have to sell this home, that kitchen could very well be a deal breaker. Those who scratch their heads are going to be in the majority, and they won't want that kitchen. They'll want a big price deduction to rip it out and start over.

I second the suggestion to look at the adjacent space to spread all of that out into a more usable fashion. That would be a wise move at this point in a new build.

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 11:01AM
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Here is a thread where I asked the same thing about matching appliances. I am very happy with everything that is stainless or has stainless on it. Not loving the "stainless look" fridges with the rest of the appliances, but it's ok. The handles of all the different appliances look good together. Notice, the two dishwashers are black. I think they have a bit of stainless trim that tie them in, maybe on the brand name plate if I remember correctly ? They look good being black especially since I have fairly dark cabinets.

The microwave, oven, and stove clock displays being different colors I also don't like. I forgot to check that when I was ordering the appliances. Two are green, one is blue. I don't remember what all my appliances are, but I think every one of them is a different brand, LOL.

Here they all are together ...

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 11:15AM
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Could you get rid of the prep sink and put the cooktop on the island? That frees up the corner for storage, and there are lots of threads on ways to make use of that corner space. Unless you have a butler's pantry, you don't seem to have much storage space with this configuration.

If you're worried about the advantium not matching the wall oven, could you put the advantium in the island so it's not right next to the wall oven?

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 5:13PM
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I truly don't want to pile on but give more thought to the layout.
I'll just point out one critical problem. Your fridge/ freezer doors are 33" each. Since they are hemmed in by the island no one will be able to stand and work at the island when someone needs to get into the fridge.
It would drive me bonkers to have to step aside from my chopping or mixing so that a kid or guest could get a drink from the fridge or my husband could take out a casserole etc.

As to the original question.....heavens I hope that one doesn't need to match!! I've never given it a second thought.

My new kitchen won't have a single matching item/brand! And I hadn't even realized that until just now! Culinarian range, Modernaire hood, Miele warming drawer, Fisher Paykel DW, Sharp microwave drawer, and Subzero refrig/freezer and kitchenaid refrigerator/freezer drawers.
Guess I'm spreading the love!

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 1:43AM
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Yeah I didn't like the layout either, but without seeing the surrounding rooms I can't make any good suggestions as to how or where to move things. Like can the corner where the cooktop is be carved out to make a square - what's behind it? What's to the right of the small cabinet to the right of the fridge, and can the kitchen be expanded in that direction? Can the window be moved? (you seem to want the sink there, but moving it a foot rightward would open up space to put the fridge and freezer on that wall, left of the window, opening lots of countertop space on the other wall).

I definitely wouldn't go with a range - they eat up lots of countertop space and result in a wider than necessary oven if you want 36" of cooktop width as shown. I usually go the opposite route - a well-designed 60cm (23") gas range with tiny knobs on the right front side (which leave as much space for cookware as a typical 30"w cooktop with the rightward-most space used for control knobs), gaining 7" of countertop space in the process, then using an undercounter 24", 27", or 30" oven at a different location, the first two which often are short enough to allow for a drawer above or below it when placed under a countertop - very convenient for cooking utensil storage. Using separate fridge and freezers let you space them apart if necessary. The wall-oven Advantium 240 must be placed in a tall cabinet unfortunately; only the 30"w Advantium 120 can be installed under a countertop. But Miele makes 24"w 240v speed ovens that can be placed under a countertop, which perhaps could go in the island.

Some of these suggestions like moving walls or windows around to make better space can add thousands to the cost, but better that than to spend a large sum of money on a kitchen renovation with fairly high-end appliances and cabinets only to have it severely compromised by an ineffective layout.

Can we get pics of the existing kitchen and surrounding areas, or a floorplan showing them?

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 4:09AM
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Still not sleeping, but thanks so much to those with constructive criticism.

Angela- the pictures and link were very helpful.
Ginny - I wish the Advantium could go under counter, but GE says no to that. And I really want that prep sink - it is my "view sink" b/c I don't want the main sink on the island.
gb-that is a very good point about having to move for someone else to get in the fridge.

What makes me laugh is that this is more counter space AND more convenient storage than I have had in 2 different homes!

All that said, I am re-thinking the twins, but the corner cooktop must stay because the HVAC guy already claimed that space. Guess I could make him move is one more person hating me gonna hurt? :)

Lee - the window is framed and would be a little difficult to move and could only go left. Actually, it could move a foot right with no problem b/c I had them frame it wide to give some options. (Window isn't in place yet) But that would require moving some ductwork if the cooktop isn't goin in the corner. This kitchen is part of a great room layout. I do have a small pantry (3'x4') around the corner. The L can't be expanded without encroaching and becoming out of proportion with the rest of the space. Appliance wall is basically a back wall with the far opposite wall being beach/water view.
I'll think about what my kids will be facing (the appliances) when they are at the island having breakfast. Don't want to turn the island, it is more about function.

9ft ceilings, I was going with 36" cabinets so they aren't so overbearing.

Corner cooktop balances a fireplace in the opposite corner.

Time to have a chat with the contractors.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 6:06AM
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The trouble I'm having working around this space isn't so much that it has a corner cutout, but how large that corner wall is. I'm trying to think of ways around it that preserve what you want. Do you need 6 burners on the cooktop? If not, something like this Fisher & Paykel gas cooktop (scroll through the pictures on that site - one alone doesn't do it justice) may work better - it's still 36" wide but only 18" deep but has only 3 burners, but that allows the cabinets on the sides to be considerably longer. There are some 36"w cooktops with 4 burners on the market too that are less deep front to back. You could split the Frigidaires and put the fridge off to the far right of the L, the freezer at the far left, left of the window. I could do without a double sink there, especially since you have another sink in the island, or maybe a narrower double sink with one large and one small basin to add countertop space. Since there's a water view out the back window, I'd orient as many chairs as possible in that direction.

You could settle for the over-the-cooktop version of the Advantium 240 - not to actually be placed over the cooktop (due to it being only 30" wide and a weak 300cfm exhaust fan), but under the wall cabinet either just to the right of the angled corner (left of where the freezer is now) or at the far left of the wall cabinets, at the end of the run left of the window and sink. In either case the wall cabinet you're placing it under would have to be 12" less tall to make room for the Advantium underneath it. Its exhaust fan would go unused, and it has less space than the wall-oven version of the Advantium (has about a 13" turntable rather than 16"), but at least you'd have an Advantium 240 in your kitchen. Then you could put your remaining single oven (or the GE two-in-one Profile double oven that fits in a single 30" space) underneath the countertop, opening up 30" of countertop space where you now have your oven stack, or allowing you to move both Frigidaires 30" to the right opening up lots of space to the right of the corner cooktop. Or moving the Frigidaires only 24" to the right, thus giving more space to tha small countertop and cabinets at the far right as well as still opening up a bit more space left of the Frigidaires than you have now.

If the window can move left, that may be worthwhile since that would add crucial countertop space between the cooktop and sink, and still allow centering the sink under the window.

Lots of good design choices available here. Just need to take some time and think them over.

    Bookmark   September 14, 2012 at 11:53PM
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Why does the oven below have to be GE profile? The Cafe Series is awesome and I wish I got a single wall oven and the advantium above rather than my double oven set. The GE Cafe wall oven is awesome- I am loving it.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 12:55AM
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9ft ceilings, I was going with 36" cabinets so they aren't so overbearing.

You have a small kitchen, and you are extremely constrained for storage, and yet you have made the decision to have shorter cabinets? Even though you have enough ceiling height for taller cabinets? I am sorry to be blunt, but that doesn't make sense. Also, you are mistaken about the "overbearing" part. Actually, the short 36" cabinets you mentioned will defeat the airiness of your 9' ceiling, make your ceiling seem lower, and your kitchen seem even less open. There will be about two-and-a-half feet of un-utilized space above your 36" cabinets.

My advice is to install 42" tall cabinets, and get every bit of storage you can. It will also look better than 36" cabinets with a 9' ceiling. Another choice would be 36" cabinets with another set of 24" cabinets stacked above them, to the ceiling (with molding). It's more expensive, but if your budget allows the stacking option, you won't have an empty space that collects dust up there, and you will have eked out every bit of vertical storage you can.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 2:05AM
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On iPad so can't do a picture manipulation. On the fridge wall, what about if you change the order of the items.

Right now it is ... 1) 15" + 9" bases + uppers 2) 33" + 33" fridge freezer 3) 33" double oven 4) 15" base + uppers

My suggestion is change the order to this ... 1) and 4) 42" = 15" + 9" + 15" + 3" (see expl below) bases + uppers 3) 30" double oven 2) 33" + 33" fridge freezer. I think putting the cabinets together to make one bigger run will help make the corner feel more open and not so closed in. The ovens make more sense to me closer to the stove. The fridge & freezer are last so other people can access them without coming into the cooking zone.

According to the specs, the Advantium you linked requires a 30" cabinet, not a 33" cabinet. I took the extra 3" and added it to the cabinet base & uppers run. That total of 42" can be configured a variety of ways. I would choose bigger drawers or cabinets than many smaller ones. For example, 9" tray base and 33" drawer stack. One big cabinet costs less than 2 smaller ones.

Also, move the sink down as much as you are able to give more room between the sink and cooktop.

I agree ... go with the taller cabinets. I think the 36" will look too short with 9 foot ceilings. The taller look more modern and more upscale. The tops are cut off in my pics above, but those cabinets are 42".

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 3:18AM
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> Why does the oven below have to be GE profile? The Cafe Series is awesome and I wish I got a single wall oven and the advantium above rather than my double oven set. The GE Cafe wall oven is awesome- I am loving it.

The GE Cafe undercounter double oven is only available as part of a range; I was referring to standalone double ovens that can be installed under a countertop. I don't know of any such ovens currently on the US market other than the 30"w GE Profile, in all-black or stainless/black as shown here. It can be mounted either under a countertop or in a wall cabinet.

The GE Cafe 30" slide-in gas range with two ovens and 5 burners (including a long oblong one) is indeed excellent though, if that's what you need.

Re: cabinet heights - I don't get the impression lack of overall storage is a problem here - more lack of *convenient* storage. The added space offered by tall cabinets (or separate cabinets on top of the regular wall cabinets) is mostly out of reach if you're not standing on a stepstool (or 6' 2"+), so it's more a place to stash rarely-used cookery and the like. In kitchens with tall ceilings, if you want to reach the ceiling with cabinets, I prefer a separate run of cabinets over the main wall cabinets, sometimes of a contrasting style and width with lift doors (like those shown below - I've seen this done many times but can't find a pic online), or sometimes just a shorter version of what's below. I don't find cabinets that don't reach a tall ceiling to be declasse though, and being able to see the edge of the ceiling can make the room look larger, and certainly saves money not having to buy extra or larger cabinets. Sometimes the open space on top is used for decorations (be careful, tastewise) or hidden indirect lighting, via fluorescent or more recently LED lighting.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 3:55AM
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Hi again!
Thanks to all for taking your time to help me here. Regarding cabinet height, I can still change this if I want. Basically, cost of the 42" cabs would not be that much more b/c we have a large crown trim on these 36"ers and "it ain't cheap." :)

The "good" news is that your comments just about gave me an ulcer, so I met on site with KD and GC was there too. In our discussions, we realized that I had screwed up royally and stated we had a 42" window when we really have a 48" window. So, the header is going to move to the left, pulling the window away from the corner cooktop.

My KD is 100% comfortable with 52.5" from the corner to fit the cooktop. I will have a new drawing to post soon. The cabs/drawers are really just for holding places right now, so those will change.

The kitchen sink is drawn as a double but will be a Rohl Allia - in a 33" cabinet unless we go with a 36" so I can have a small garbage can underneath and put the pullouts by the prep sink on the island, which will also have a disposal and be 18".

I didn't post the layout for critique at this point. My OP was can I put GE Profile Advantium over a GE Profile single oven in a position adjacent to the Frigidaire Twins. I am 50-50 on whether I will do stainless Profile or Black, but decided not to spend the extra $$ on Monogram.

I don't even know how to respond to LiveWire, except to say that I do cook for my family, I do a lot of frozen dinners, but only those that I have cooked myself and frozen for future use. We have 2 high schoolers and a middle schooler, all involved in multiple sports. We have an active lifestyle so I don't have the luxury to spend hours each night in the kitchen. I tend to buy 3 lbs of bacon at Sam's Club, cook it all and freeze it so I only have to clean up bacon grease one time. We live on a lake, so we freeze fresh salmon. We have friends who hunt, so we have venison in the freezer. I must have caught you on a bad day, because your words were particularly harsh. That said, I do appreciate the time it took to write them. (honest, I meant that sincerely, just hard to express it in the tone intended)

Thanks again! To be continued!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 6:44AM
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My other issue with really tall to-the-9'-ceiling cabinets is that they make all the doors unnecessarily heavy to open and close, all for extra storage that's mostly out of reach anyway.

As to GE Profile stainless vs. black, I had to make that decision recently and went with stainless because I liked that the buttons labelling had backlighting only on the stainless models making them easier to read, but I'm not sure if they're still that way (this was for an over-the-range Advantium 240). Looks-wise, I prefer the black since I never cared for the curved surfaces that the Profile appliances use and the stainless trim accentuates, but appearance is a personal preference. Black also saves a few hundred $. Actually, I'd probably go with the Electrolux black 30" single oven with the black A240 over it and save even more, and get an oven that can really broil (open door) and has nice glide-out racks that glide out far enough to be useful.

Also, have you looked at the Danby Designer separate refrigerators and freezers? Kind of like the Frigidaires but only 30" (vs. 32") wide each and the doors are reversible which could open up some more design possibilities, like putting the fridge left of the sink and the freezer at the far right of everything.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 8:53AM
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I remember someone saying on the Kitchens Forum, and it stuck with me, "you can never have too much storage in the kitchen".

Regarding cabinet height and Lee676's note about needing a stepstool: I don't know about the OP, but I am 5'3", and I need a stepstool for anything above the second shelf regardless. So it doesn't matter if I have 36" cabinets, or 42" cabinets or a stack of cabinets up to the ceiling, I need a stepstool. My children also need a stepstool regardless of how tall the cabinets are. And "all that extra storage that's out of reach" is precious to me; I don't know where I'd put my holiday stuff, party platters, candles, some of my mother's serving pieces, and other miscellaneous otherwise. My house is not large, and I don't have a lot of room for storage if it were not for the tall cabinets.

Also in response to the comment about cabinet doors being heavy, I have 42" cabinet doors, as do some of my friends and family. They are not the least bit heavy.

A number of Kitchens Forum people have done stacked cabinets (I have a few stacked cabinets, but couldn't afford an entire kitchen of them), and the effect is marvelous.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 11:37AM
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We have a 101" ceiling, and chose to do what I call "faux-stacked" 43" cabinets. This is one box, with two doors. The price is more than a single-door cabinet, of course, but much cheaper than two separate boxes. We split them 27"/16". I like it.

BTW, Live_Wire_Oak was not being snide. There really ARE people who ask for advice here who don't use their kitchen seriously. She didn't bring up that possibility pejoratively.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 12:42PM
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I really urge you to consider what LWO and hollysprings have said. In posting your layout and ideas, you have to be open to criticism, but that's a good thing. Please try to put a positive spin on the criticisms of your layout. The goal here is a functional and aesthetically pleasing kitchen, right?

FWIW, LWO and hollysprings (as well as others) have made a huge impact on my kitchen design and layout. My kitchen will be so much better because of their advice. But I had to get there by re-evaluating what I originally thought I wanted. They convinced me to give up the twins. I'm so glad that I changed my mind. The F+F combo just didn't fit in my kitchen and that's ok.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 8:01PM
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I prefer appliances to be in the same family. I wouldn't care if one shade of stainless in a bit different in tone than another, or if it's a different brand, but I wouldn't want to mix white with black or stainless, especially on the same wall. To me it looks like just waiting for the one odd appliance to die or got a bargain price on it that I just couldn't pass up.

Sorry I have to agree with the others about the layout. Waaay too much fridge freezer for that space. I hear what you're saying about no room in the garage for a spare, but there is no room in the kitchen! And it looks like it's an open floor plan? Don't know if it's to a family room or what, but wherever it is looks like it will have a view of the giant FF.
If you are worried about resale I'd reconsider that. Families of all sizes have lived with standard size fridges for decades. Break up with your love and just go grocery shopping more often. Please don't take offense, I'm not being snotty, just honest.

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 8:32PM
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I was sincere when I thanked LWO for his/her time. The comments were just off base, IMO, because I was asking for opinions on matching appliances.

And hollysprings, I have to thank for giving me some great material that helped me laugh instead of cry. I can't count the number of times I have used the "Kardashian of dysfunctional kitchen design" line. LMAO! My kitchen designer and I laughed and the appliance salesman equated me to the 15 year old girl who posted a pic of herself online and asked if people thought she was pretty. Apparently, the responses she received were awful. So sad...

gbsim did make a helpful comment about distance from the open fridge door and the island. 48 inches, or even 45 with counter edges is actually comfortable with a 33 inch door, but we are still going to pull the island a little farther from the cabs. That is easy...

The 33 inch cab (instead of a 30 inch + filler) for the Advantium and oven is needed to give wiggle room so the refrigerator can open, I believe.

As soon as I lock in my appliances, I am going over the whole space/storage issue. Cabinets, drawers, etc.

THANK YOU Lee for the black electrolux suggestion, I will definitely look into that! Love that electrolux oven with blue interior and sliding racks!

    Bookmark   September 15, 2012 at 10:09PM
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OK, I checked my appliances ... the 2 fridges are Frigidaire in "Silver Mist", the microwave is GE, the single oven is Kenmore, the stove is Whirlpool, the hood is Kenmore (hey, a duplicate brand!), the dishwashers are Maytag, the stainless sinks are Ticor, and the faucets are Moen and are chrome. The dishwashers are black, but the name plate is silver that says Maytag.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 12:12AM
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sue_sf...what you are running into is the situation where people here are having a difficult time coming to terms with someone who is very insistent on what others see as a dysfunctional layout and insisting that it is functional.

One thing we hate to see is someone spending a lot of money on something that will end up being less than pleasurable to work least from our point of view.

Yes, we have had a few people come here and tell us they don't cook and don't really care if their kitchen is just has to look good and, usually, have the latest and greatest "gadgets" and appliances (i.e., a "show kitchen", not a working kitchen). I think Live_Wire_Oak was trying to find out if you are one of those because some of what you have been saying makes it seem that you are. Based on your response, however, you are not...but we didn't know that. She is also being honest and telling you how others will react if you have to sell. No, you probably aren't planning to sell in the foreseeable future, but as we have seen here, things happen and often people are forced to sell anyway (and leave their beloved kitchens behind for someone else to enjoy!)

The bottom line is that your layout really is not functional for someone who cooks a lot and, yes, it would be a deal-breaker for many (me, included) without concessions in price so it could be gutted and redone. It sounds like you are not open to modifications to the layout, so I think we need to accept that.

In the end, this is your kitchen and if you want it just like you have it, then so be it. You are the one who has to live with and work in it, not us, and it may very well work for you and your family.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 12:16AM
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"the appliance salesman equated me to the 15 year old girl who posted a pic of herself online and asked if people thought she was pretty."

That is hysterical!!

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 12:22AM
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I actually used the Advantium 240 and Electrolux oven combo in a recent remodel. Electrolux has two black 30" single ovens, with the higher-end model (which costs only an extra $250 or less) having two glide-out racks instead of one, plus a different control panel setup where only the needed controls light up in blue. GE has only one glide-out shelf even on their top Profile oven, and it doesn't glide out very far or have Elux's convenient hand grip. And as mentioned, the Electrolux has a higher-power (8-pass, 4000-watt) open-door broiler which makes all the difference. The closed-door broiler in the Kitchenaid it replaced was unable to char only the top of the food - instead, it cooked all the way through - that's baking, not broiling. Also, the Electrolux oven is [i]quiet[/i].

I'm not in agreement with the opinions of several others here about the fridge and freezer being too big. Yes, families got by with smaller fridges and even smaller freezers in the past. They also got by without 55" flat-screen HDTVs and internet and mobile phones, but I don't see anyone putting 15" tube TVs in their kitchens and sticking corded phones on the wall anymore. Things have changed. I have a 1940s house with a tiny kitchen in an enclosed room (with a door) off a large dining/living room, and it was built with only a small fridge with a tiny freezer compartment inside the main fridge section. That made sense in the '40s when there weren't many frozen foods available, and not much refrigerated food either, and preparing meals took hours each day, and was performed by someone who generally stayed home much of the day to prepare dinner each night. My kitchen and floorplan are obsolete - not because it has fallen victim to the whims of fashion, but because a fundamental shift has occurred in the way people live. So I'm tearing down the wall that separates the kitchen from the living room, and probably using the same Frigidaire (or Kenmore or Electrolux) separate refrigerators and freezer that you're using. I may extend the kitchen into the former dining area, and yet the overall kitchen size would still remain small. But even if I leave the kitchen sized as is, the 32" fridge and freezer will fit. I'm going with a 2-burner cooktop and separate built-in grill - two burners is plenty for a 3-bedroom house, especially with all the other cooking options. An instant-hot means not having to use a burner for a water kettle. I'll keep a third portable burner in a drawer just in case, but I doubt it'll get much use. (I may give in and use a 60cm/23" cooktop with four burners instead, but even these have plenty of cooking space because the knobs are tiny and at the front side, and they're thin so there's room below for a drawer for utensils that you wouldn't get in a range). I'll also have an Advantium, a toaster oven, and a 24" wall oven with convection (Fagor with glide-out racks and side-hinged door, which let's me place it undercounter and still have easy access, which along with the small cooktop and narrower but roomier sink opens up lots of countertop space and room for a separate freezer. I don't want to run down to the basement to get frozen food either. And I don't even have a garage to put an extra freezer.

Although I recommend keeping the separate fridge and freezer, you do want to be sure the open doors don't block access around them when open. But with careful design I think you can accomplish that in your space.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 7:10AM
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...What I'm getting at is that the fridge and freezer don't have to be buried in the kitchen cooking area anymore if space is limited - indeed it's often convenient to have it closer to the eating area. Someone about a year ago posted this (stunning) kitchen remodel that picks up on this idea - notice how the fridge and freezer are close to the eating area (and living room) and further from the back wall on the left with the oven and such. This same kitchen is also a good example of separate high wall cabinets placed over the main cabinets.

p.s. anyone remember who this is?

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 8:04AM
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Thanks Buehl -
Island - :) yes, I am a glutton for punishment (apparently)

As always, thanks everyone for your time.

Here is the layout of the great room. It is a narrow lot on a lake. When you walk into the front door, you head past a bedroom and bathroom on the left and straight at the open staircase and into the great room. The great room is not a large space, and the kitchen is already large proportionate to the space. There is a fireplace in the corner next to a large glass slider that goes to a covered deck.

The appliance wall is behind you. Until you are leaving, you won't see it :) It actually extends to the end of the wall. The passthrough to pantry used to be there, but we moved it to around the corner so we could have a longer run.

Anyway, the island shape is changing. It won't be as wide and it may be a little longer. We will pull it out from the fridge a little bit so there is more than enough room for traffic. It will have a prep sink and a 42" cabinet w/ 2 drawers(think stock pot, rice cooker, waffle iron, etc). Right now, it has a 36" bank of 3 drawers on the end facing window wall, and a backside that is accessed under the overhang with a 48" double cabinet (think crockpot, panini grill)- actually this cab is now 12" deep, but I am going to bump it to 15"

Again, the window is shifting toward the dining room as much as one foot. This will help the crowded corner by the cooktop.

I do welcome your thoughts on the cabinet/counter that is to the right of the oven stack. My thought was to keep that open so it didn't feel cramped as you entered the space. Plus, it is a place to dump my purse, keys, cell phone, etc. As it is now, the cabinet starts about 6 inches in from that wall. It can go away and we can move the appliances away from the corner even more, but to me that does seem intimidating as you enter the space. We could add a wall to end that appliance run, but I'd have to think about that one...

I have avoided moving the oven stack to the window wall because we would also like counter leading out that slider by the dining table. The grill will be out that way. If you guys want to move that stack, we can consider it. The kids will be using the Advantium. I think it is way more visible there....

The table is just something thrown in there - there will be room for chairs. That side slider will be heavily used, so the counter run can't come much closer. For what it's worth, I see a sectional, not the sofa config that is shown...

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 8:26AM
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lee - I must have been posting while you were - that photo is amazing! Those are some serious high ceilings! Love it-

Thanks again for the advice on the Electrolux. Sounds like a no brainer. Regarding the 240A, why does GE seem to box it in on top of the counter in their photos? Do you like that?

If we wanted to do that, I could put the black electrolux under counter next to fridge, have that open countertop and then put the advantium above the counter on the sink wall, closer to dining table where kids can use it w/o being in my way...
Or, do I keep them stacked on the "appliance wall" and consider getting rid of the open counter as you walk past the stairs? I will be coming in through the mudroom from the garage and can throw my keys and crap in there. :)

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 8:53AM
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Sue_SF: late to the thread and I'm no layout guru. Been working on mine for, oh about, well, over a year now and just lately do I feel that I'm closing in on the best layout for my space. And that is only because of the suggestions from GW.

It can be overwhelming to post for one thing and get comments on something completely different...esp when those comments could cause you to go right back to GO or close to it. My best ideas for my kitchen remodel have come from others on here but only when I let go of the concept of 'hurt feelings' and objectively looked at suggestions for their merit in real life.

The other thing that has helped me is to tape out areas of question and 'work' within them. This helped me see that 36" in a small 'U' setup...well, my rear-end didn't fit, lol. 42" was better and 48 felt just was confirmed by several posters here recently.

Anyway, different eyes see different things and I figure these kitchens are so dang expensive that I'm leaving no stone unturned and no pre-conceived notion unexamined before we start plunking down thousands.

After what I've gained here in knowledge already, I consider myself lucky to be able to ponder what is pointed out to me, layout-wise.

Good luck to you!

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 9:26AM
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Hopefully, you are open to layout advice if the experts accept your appliance choice? I'm not an expert, but I do see some issues that I hope you will consider.

Is your prep sink going to stay where it is?

What I've learned here is that you don't want to generate any traffic through your prep and cooking area. Your current plan has your f+f closer to your cook surface than the prep sink. I don't really think that your prep sink would function as a prep sink in this layout, especially if people are going to and from the fridge. Whichever way people take around the island, this would happen. Imo, a huge snafu. Is it possible to at least mount your advantium and wall oven under the counter? Then you could move your F+F down to the end, creating more counterspace around your cook area and hopefully removing your f+f from your prep and cooking area.

With all of your appliances, you may want consider an integrated dishwasher for aesthetics.

And I do agree with previous comments that your uppers should go as high as the ceiling. The cabinet stack to the right of the cleanup sink should be a drawer stack. Will your garbage go under the sink?

Funny enough, I also wanted a corner range like you. I changed my mind before I found GW, but here's a link to a blog post that influenced my decision.

Here is a link that might be useful: Corner range advice

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 9:27AM
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I'm a bit confused since you've changed alot of things since the drawings were made and I don't have time at the moment to draw up what it would look like with the newer modifications. I tend to favor the Electrolux under a longer countertop to the right of the fridge (I think that's what you meant) - I usually don't like ovens under a countertop because I need to lean over to use it, however, in this case the oven under a countertop would be only slightly higher than in your original plan and you'd gain 30" of countertop this way - plus, the roll-out racks in the Electrolux alleviate the awkwardness of reaching around a drop-down door and into the oven to insert and remove food, allowing easy access when standing to the side of the open oven door and extended rack. I like having a microwave oven near the eating table since I often need to reheat food during a long meal, and of course the Advantium doubles as a microwave. There are differing schools of thought concerning whether or not it's good to have all the cooking appliances nearby. Some say yes; create a cooking zone. I think no, because each appliance requires its own paraphernalia - pots and pans for the cooktop, trays for the oven, microwavable cookware for the MW and the round glass and metal Advantium trays - and thus, each needs nearby cabinet space to store those separate items, and each is used for different purposes and for different time lengths. The cooktop is often constantly watched over as you stir the food; the oven needs only occasional monitoring, and the microwave and Advantium are both fast (and thankfully cool - I'd rather not have the heat of an oven or cooktop nearby as I use or check on whether the food looks ready in the MW/Advantium).

I don't know why GE shows the A240 like that either. Same with their double 30"x30" Profile oven. It does place it at a convenient height though (you should check out your favorite height before deciding where to place it - you wouldn't believe how many people don't think about this until after their new kitchen is installed, and then discover they can't reach the top of their double oven stacked over a warming drawer).

Sometimes GE shows the A240 over their JX2200NBB slide-out drawer accessory. Although its real reason for existing is to fill the gap in the cabinet cutout of those people replacing first-generation Advantium 240s that were made until 5 years ago and were taller (yet much less roomy inside), it also makes for a convenient place to store the round Advantium trays when not in use.

    Bookmark   September 16, 2012 at 9:55AM
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sorry lee -
I thought I'd posted a picture with that long explanation. I am not sure what happened to it!

I'll be making all these decisions in the next couple of days.


    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 3:53AM
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What is going under the stairs facing into the kitchen and family room? That could be space to reclaim for kitchen use.

In addition, there are some other issues with the home layout. The master bedroom shares wall space with the family room, which is one of the noisiest rooms in a home, and the sound will transmit back and forth between the two areas. The master bath is overly large and wasteful of space considering the smaller size of the rest of the public areas suffers as a result. The covered porch will leave the family room and dining area dark. If the only window into that space that isn't covered with an overhanging porch is in the kitchen zone, then you should do everything possible to maximize that light source, such as making that window as large as possible and shifting storage elsewhere.

The usual area to shift storage would be the other leg of the L. With a standard sized refrigerator, I'd put in a small pull out pantry to it's right to be able to take up the slack that the larger window and corner cooktop swallow. That's not possible here without making that wall even worse, so you should investigate that "lost" space under the stairs. If the stair is tall enough at the back, that would the the ideal location for the freezer, thus giving you 33" of additional storage in the prime hot zone.

Overall, the plan as designed will be dark and small in feel, despite the open concept. The traffic patterns aren't generous and the seating space is quite cramped for both the family area and dining area. The large wall of large tall objects that you plan will further close it in physically and psychologically. It needs more light and space. Look at doing skylights or solartubes into the covered porch to help with getting more light into the interior rooms and get rid of the fridge and freezer as planned if you cannot move the freezer out of the main space.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 7:38AM
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Ditto above suggestions to swap the oven stack and fridge. This also really does not look like a kitchen that needs a 6-burner cooktop.

You have lots of good advice above. I'll just suggest the exercise of taking a pencil to a printout and drawing how people and things are going to move in this space.

There's a cooking circulation (raw materials, prep, cooking, dishing up), a cleaning circulation, and then people wandering in to get something out of the fridge. You want each circulation to be as compact as possible and to cross the others as little as possible.

Another way to get at this -- which may seem excessive, but why not get this right -- is to haul out some folding tables and cardboard cartons and whatnot and build a full-size mockup of your layout. Then walk through cooking and cleaning. I did this with parts of my kitchen and it saved me multiple costly mistakes.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 3:56PM
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Sue - going back to your original question - I have the Elux fridge, Wolf e series and Advantium Monogram - 3 different companies (and a Miele DW)
I am into function over fashion - but I think they are fine together.

Now - my 2 cents - Sorry - I fired our KD when I realized that I could not open the oven and reach into the oven without bumping the peninsula.

New design, wall ovens still exist - but no peninsula - I think you will poke your back on the island when you try to get items out - unless you pull them from the side.

I found GW after my plans were set and we were under construction - I wish I had found GW earlier - but did make changes to the plans based on feedback.

Hang in there - kitchens are expensive and we value our resources.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 7:33PM
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Thanks Gemini- your kitchen looks great and thanks for addressing the original post :)

Met with KD today and we are really close to being finished. I liked Lee's advice on the Elux oven (I am a sucker for the cobalt blue interior and gliding shelves).I am still not sure on whether to go all stainless or mix F/F with black oven stack or maybe even stainless elux with black 240A.

We are also considering the single oven below counter and Advantium 240 over-the-counter in the cabinet on the sink wall. It was one of Lee's suggestions.

We ended up with 30 inches to the left of the cooktop b/f the sink and 30 inches to the right of the cooktop b/f the F/F. I will consider going cooktop, cabinets, ovens, F/F, like Angela suggested. I definitely want the 18 inches of counter at the end of the run so you aren't entering in b/t the stairs and the full height appliances. Window is now in and looks nice.

BTW, the stairs are open, so no storage under them and the master b/r wall will have sound insulation. The kids have a "flex room" upstairs and that is where they will be - kinda like a basement, but upstairs since we are on the lake and can't have a basement :) The furniture isn't relevant, it was just put in by the draftsman.

I am comfortable with the amount of storage between the counters and the island and the pantry around the corner.
I have also done mock up after mock up and 48 inches to the island is plenty. I will take several more looks at traffic patterns....

Thanks all -

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 10:26PM
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I've been too busy to look much at this today, but I did print out your newer floorplans. Just so I'm clear can you verify these assumptions I'm making:

- do the stairs that lead to the kitchen drop you off in front of the living room chair and near the main bedroom door, or are those on two different floors and the stairs leading to the kitchen drop you off around the corner from the oven?. That is, is the main bedroom on the same level as the kitchen, adjoining it?

This is new construction, right? Are the window positions fixed in place yet? From what I can see, the windows along the kitchen sink wall could be placed just about anywhere.

Quick note on the appliances - Electrolux is running a promo where you get a $400 American Express gift card if you buy three of their appliances (fridge, freezer, oven). If you upgraded to Eletrolux rather than Frigidaire fridge and freezer, you'd still pay a few hundred more even after the rebate but get some nice added features like LED lighting and smooth-gliding crisper drawers. Electrolux is Frigidaire's parent company so the designs are basically the same. Alternatively, if you decide on the stainless Electrolux oven, you could stick with the Frigidaires and upgrade to the Electrolux Icon E30EW75GSS oven for a few hundred $ more, which has 3 glide-out racks and full-coverage glass on the inside door whih gives a dramatic effect along with being easier to keep clean, without the usual gasket surrounding the glass. The Icon is only available in stainless steel though; the regular Electrolux "wave-touch" can be s/s or black. The refrigerator and freezer are also sold as Kenmore Elites, which sell at a Frigidaire price (circa $1500 each) but have some of the Electrolux features (LED lighting, fancier shelves) so they're worth a look if you've only seen the Frigidaires. The same company makes all three. Are you planning on getting the double trim kit for these that makes the two pieces look like a huge Sub-Zero built-in?

(turned out to be not such a quick note. I need to learn terseness in writing. And in speaking but you don't need to know that....

I worded an earlier response incorrectly regarding oven placement - placing the oven under the countertop would leave it only slightly higher than in your original plan - I meant *lower* of course, but I think you figured that out. What it would do of course is add 30" to the countertop there.


- if the stairs drop you off near the end of the countertop near the oven - I think that's what you're saying, I might put a curved cabinet door or just open curved shelves at the end so nobody stubs their foot walking by - it won't steal much countertop or cabinet space which should still be ample now that you have the oven under the counter.

- You could go with a 27" rather than 30" oven and cabinets, move the Frigidaires 3" to the right, and gain 3" to the right of the corner cooktop area.

- If you stay with the straight-edge cabinet on the far right, you could keep the 30" oven (probably a good idea), reduce the upper and lower cabinet in width by 3", move the Frigidaires 3" to the right, and again gain 3" of extra countertop space in that crowded but crucial area to the right of the cooktop. Or you could do this with the 27" oven, move the Frigidaires 6" to the right, and gain 6" of countertop to the left of the freezer and larger cabinets.

I'm still not clear on the overall dimensions.

I'm stopping here or else my post will end randomly cause it's 5 AM and i'm falling asleep. Ambien, take me away....

    Bookmark   September 18, 2012 at 5:32AM
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Saw a GE Profile 30" oven when I was at HD and had a look. I'd be afraid to use the top shelf in this oven - the heating element dangles so low, about 1-1/2" from the top surface, that I'd probably singe my knuckles on it every time I reach for my oooked food. Also, the only interior lighting is from two small domes on the top. Put a tray on the top shelf, and the rest of the oven goes dark.

Put in my "what were they thinking" file....

Also learned that none of the wall-oven Advantiums have backlit keys, regardless of whether it's stainless or black, but not an issue since the buttons are clearly labelled and easy to read. (On the over-the-range versions, the stainless-steel models have backlit keys but the black ones don't). Trivial detail I know, but I got it wrong in an earlier post and i'll never live this down if it goes uncorrected....

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 9:34AM
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And when you are done, you will have a party at your house and invite us all up to the lake ? : )

    Bookmark   September 19, 2012 at 5:47PM
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Oh my! I must have unchecked the "email update box" and I thought everyone had forgotten about me and my "Kardashian of dysfunctional kitchen layouts!" Thanks Lee! More great info. Come on up anytime, Angela!

I am attaching my latest layout. I do have one last question. I am going with 30" Electrolux Stainless (probably the IQ, not Wave touch, unless Lee has a good reason-the wave is $600 more.)

Do I stack the elux in a double oven cabinet, as shown in the layout, with the 240 Advantium wall oven OR do I put the elux under the counter there and have the 240 Advantium over the cooktop model above? These are the pros/cons as I see it.
OTC 240A - taller interior (pro), shallower - can't fit a 9x13 casserole (con), looks kinda funny hanging there-it isn't sitting on a shelf like a regular m/w (con), it is $1000 less expensive (pro) but I have to buy granite for the counter, but I have more counter space....

I kinda like that the OTC opens like a microwave, but the oven won't be any higher than any other double oven stack, so wall oven pull down door shouldn't be a problem

Layout dimensions -I have 30 inches on either side of the corner oven. F/F are 33 and 33 and the oven is in a 33 cab so fridge can open (it was either that or 30" cab + fillers). Last cab on that run is 18. Corner cooktop will have a hood built on site. Nothing froo froo, but a valance of some sort. Window got moved over :) and is 48, not 42. That run is 30" drawers, 36 sink base (for the Rohl Allia that I loved loved loved in my last remodel)sink is 31", so there is room for a small garbage there, dishwasher and 18" drawers. I don't want to extend that run anymore or go closer to that slider b/c I will have a dining room table in that little 11 x 11 space. Island is 51 x 99. It houses a prep sink, garbage pullout and some drawers, cabinets and is backed by 15" narrow cabs for vases, candles, crockpot, probably the mix master, etc. I have a medium size pantry near the mudroom/garage entry. Island is 48 inches from sink wall and 48-56 inches from appliance wall. (TBD) The F/F doors are only 33" so I don't want to push that island too far into the other living space. I am happy with it being 48". Gonna go lay it out one last time...

Oh, you all win - cabs are 42." Lee, we just have one set of stairs and they are the ones you see by the end of cabinets. Their entry point is before you get to the cabinet run. I considered a softened corner there, but opted to pull the cabs in 6" from the wall instead.

The rest of the house is what it is, by design. We have an open stairway that goes upstairs to a kids' den and 2 bedrooms. Master is next to the living room downstairs, and has a disproportionate size bathroom, but I am gonna have a claw foot tub, dang it! We have tons of windows, but deck is covered because it faces due East and the sunrise is outrageous! I think we will have plenty of natural light, it just won't be direct.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 6:59PM
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BTW, not doing the trim kit to look like a sub zero - I just want the big ole F/F!

Here is the look of the stacked ovens

The fillers are kinda screwy b/c of the computer formats. The fillers will be minimum required.

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 7:31PM
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and the look of the over the counter Advantium. But no range underneath, just countertop and oven below the cooktop

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 7:35PM
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Just to be clear - in the second diagram -you are using the OTR style Advantium with a side opening door? Gives you more counterspace for sure. The disadvantage is your lower oven is lower - which means more bending.
Are you going to use the monogram advantium with the Elux?

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 10:31PM
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Gemini- I hadn't really thought about the Monogram Advantium, but guess we should. I just showed DH both options and he likes the look of the Advantium above. I prefer that it opens like a microwave. Only disadvantage that I see to the OTC Advantium is that it isn't quite as deep, so I can't use a 9x13" pan. It says it fits an 8.5 x 11 casserole, which makes me laugh b/c that is a paper size, not a casserole size in my book, but whatever...

I have never had a home with wall ovens, so the low main oven doesn't bother me. I am used to slide in or free standing ranges and they are "low."

I am getting a monogram gas cooktop and if I get the Monogram Advantium (by Sept 30!), I will qualify for a $1000 rebate, IF I get a monogram Hood. Any advice on a monogram hood?

We had considered the OTC Advantium for the other end of the run, but only like the look if it is surrounded by cabinets.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 7:45AM
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My bad, the Advantium IS the qualifying hood. Not sure if I can get a 3rd Monogram appliance to qualify

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 8:20AM
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> I am going with 30" Electrolux Stainless (probably the IQ, not Wave touch, unless Lee has a good reason-the wave is $600 more.)

Lee doesn't know where you're getting that $600 figure from - their website shows only a $150 bump in price from the IQ to the Wave Touch (black) or $250 (stainless steel). Anyway, Lee does have a good reason it's about $200 more, and thinks it's easily worth that small increment if only because the Wave includes 2 glide-out racks (and a third fixed rack) rather than just one of the three racks being a glide-out on the IQ. Those are especially useful if you wind up placing the oven below the countertop. You also get a temperature probe, a turkey-specific cook mode, some extra cooking options like defrost and multi-stage cooking instructions, and a control panel that goes dark when not being used.

There's also two Electrolux Icon models (both stainless steel, one with "pro"-style handles) that sell for about $400 above the stainless Wave Touch, which has all 3 racks with glide-out (plus a fourth stationary rack added) It also has different styling - more flat and crisp, with a glass rather than plastic touch control panel, a full glass door that stays cool to the touch and looks sleeker and is easier to clean from the inside (and may be larger, can't tell), has two radiant cooking elements. It doesn't have the special turkey setting though.

Now on to the Advantiums - assuming you're looking at the 240v, both the wall-oven and over-the-cooktop versions are each available in Profile Black, Profile S/S, or Monogram S/S. Wall ovens have a 17" deep oven cavity, 3" deeper than the OTC versions. OTC models do have 1" more height inside though, as well as nice backlit keys that (like those on the Elux Wave or Icon ovens) light up only when used, for an uncluttered look. The drop-down vs. side-hinged door is a matter of preference - because of the physics involved, it takes less effort to unlatch the drop-down doors, but for actual use, it's about the same - the swing-out door is less in your way once it's opened. The OTC Advantiums include halogen downlights to illuminate the countertop below it, which can be dimmed. Either is fine IMO.

Here' the pricing I pulled online:

for the Electrolux 30" ovens:

30" Electric Single Wall Oven with IQ-Touch Controls
$1,849.00 MSRP

Stainless Steel
30" Electric Single Wall Oven with IQ-Touch Controls
$2,049.00 MSRP*

30" Electric Single Wall Oven with Wave-Touch Controls
$1,999.00 MSRP

30" Electric Single Wall Oven with Wave-Touch Controls
Stainless Steel
$2,299.00 MSRP*

Electrolux Icon Designer Series 30" Single Wall Oven
Stainless Steel with Black Trim
$2599 typ.

Elecctrolux Icon Professional Series 30" Single Wall Oven
Stainless Steel
$2699 typ.

For the Advantium 240:

OTC Profile Black $1,299
OTC Profile S/S $1,399
OTC Monogram S/S $1,799
Wall Profile Black $2,499
Wall Profile S/S $2,699
Wall Monogram S/S $3,199

conclusion - how important is having the extra depth in the Advantium, having the big oven slightly higher off the ground, and having the added storage space of the drawer below the oven and the 24"d rather than 12"d wall cabinets above the Advantium? If it's not all that important, you can create a significantly larger countertop near the stairs and give that area a less constricted, more opened-up feel (resulting from the open space over the countertop and 30" of wall cabinets being pushed back a foot). It also looks like you'll save yourself a good chunk of change, because the wall-cabinet Advantiums cost from $1,200 to $1,400 more than the corresponding over-the-cooktop versions. I also expect needing only a wall cabinet and framework to support an undercounter oven will cost less than a full-height oven cabinet. OTOH, you'll need an additional 2-1/2 feet of granite or other countertop material.

As for colors, the fridge and freezer are big slabs of stainless steel; the oven and Advantium are, even if you order them in the "stainless steel" color, will be just stainless-steel frames around black glass and control panels. The S/S Profile Advantium sort of calls attention to itself with those curvy panels; I think i'd prefer the black one which visually almost disappears into the wall behind the big fridge and freezer. Maybe paired with the black Wave Touch electrolux below. Or maybe the S/S version of same (or the fancier Icon "designer" oven) even if you stick with the black Advantium. The styling of the Monogram Advantium is more neutral and closer to that of the Electrolux oven, but it's also $400 more for no additional functionality. I think even with a S/S oven, the black Advantium would work. That's because the oven is on the same plane as the fridge and freezer, 24" from the wall, whereas the Advantium is inset. The more I think of it though, I kind of like having the big silver square created by the adjacent fridge & freezer stand on its own, with no other shiny silvery appliances off to one side creating needless asymmetry, and and don't think having some stainless trim around a still mostly-black oven would help the overall look, especially if you're using darker cabinet colors. Better to have the strikingly wide refrigerator and freezer, equal in size, unadorned with the usual ice dispenser, be the main visual statement on that wall, rather than divert attention to what looks to the world to be an over-the-cooktop microwave that isn't over a cooktop.

If you want to move the Advantium to the left wall but don't have cabinets to put it between, you can sometimes order a side panel that matches the cabinet front in color. Only some cabinet manufacturers make these.

One last thought I had is that if you buy three of certain Electrolux appliances, which include the Wave ovens, they'll give you a $400 rebate. Electrolux sells more deluxe versions of the Frigidaires under their own brand (LED lighting, glide-out bins, etc.), but unfortunately even with the $400 rebate it would still cost a few hundred dollars more to get the Electrolux pair. Again, I would also look at the Sears/Kenmore Elite version of this set too, which has more of the added Electrolux features for close to the Frigidaire price.

I have some thoughts on the rest of the kitchen (and the house in general) but it's already past my bedtime....

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 8:46PM
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Lee- You are the best! Thanks for taking the time to point those things out. I am not sure why my appliance store says $600 more for the Wave Touch - $2599 vs $1999. I'll have to double check those prices. That is in stainless and I see what you mean about going black on at one or both of the ovens. I didn't realize the IQ Touch only had one glide rack. The glides are the reason I want it!

I don't want to move ovens to the left of the F/F, mainly because the microwave will be frequently used and I don't want it in the middle of that "L." I will be moving the prep sink.

Do you think we will have a problem with activating the Elux Wave Touch when we are using the Advantium above it? That would be a real hassle....

Rebate-wise, neither Elux or Frigidaire allow the F/F to count as two qualifying purchases. They are both "refrigeration" category. So, I don't qualify for an elux rebate. I am getting a Frigidaire d/w, so I do qualify for $150 back from them if I go with the Frigidaire F/F.

My Sears doesn't have the Elite version to look at. DH and I kinda like the no fingerprint version anyway.

Lee, I can't thank you enough. Had it not been for you, I would be going with the Frigidaire wall oven and I am excited about the Elux!

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 6:49PM
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Thanks for the kind words - I don't usually spend this much time researching stuff for complete strangers on internet forums, but I happen to be dealing with almost the exact same issues with my kitchen-and-living room renovation, and also plan to use the separate fridge and freezer in a room that most people consider too small for them, as well as an Advantium 240 of some sort, so I need to learn about these anyway. I'm probably using an undercounter Fagor 24" oven with the side-hinged door since I have less space (its under-$1000 price and glide-out racks make it an easy choice for me, especially since it fits perfectly into Ikea's undercounter oven cabinet which is only offered in the 24" width - important since i'm doing the work myself). I did, however, use an Electrolux oven for a makeover in another kitchen I helped design for my brother and his family, so already did the research on those. They needed a double 27" oven to fit an existing cabinet which ruled out the Icon which is only offered as a 30-incher, but opted for the Wave-Touch over the IQ largely because of the 2nd glide-out rack. They went with stainless steel to match the other new appliances they added; however in their kitchen the oven is far away from other appliances, across a wide opening to the living room, and the s/s fridge is a smaller 36"w combo fridge/freezer. They also used an OTC Advantium 240 Profile also in stainless steel. At the time, Monogram versions of OTC Advantiums weren't yet available so we didn't have the Profile-vs-Monogram styling choice to make. If you have any specific questions about how either the Electrolux or the Advantium work in real-life use, I can pass them on and get back to you. I can say now though that they're very pleased with both (as am I since I've used them occasionally when I'm visiting). I too like the way the blue interior of the oven looks, as well as how the bright lights on both sides of the oven, set at different heights, light up the food even when several racks are being used. And the way the lights do a slow fade-on and fade-off looks elegant too. It's much quieter than the Kitchenaid oven it replaced, the glide-out racks work smoothly, and overall just feels like a quality piece - and most importantly it cooks well.

One last minor tidbit about the Advantiums - I incorrect wrote in an earlier post that black over-the-cooktop Advantiums don't have a backlit control panel. Correction:, both the black and stainless-steel OTC Advantiums have it, whether Profile or Monogram. The white ones don't, nor do any of the wall-oven models. The backlighting allows the control panel to be dark most of the time, giving it a smooth almost-black appearance when not in use that allows the control panel to blend in to the adjoining oven window, without needing white lettering all over the control panel buttons. (I have an almost Apple-esque obsession with clean, uncluttered design and intuitive controls).

Regarding moving the ovens to the left of the F/F, I was referring only to the OTC Advantium, and was thinking at the far left of the cabinet run, left of the sink and window, not directly to the left of the freezer. Don't know if there's room there, but personally I prefer having the microwave easily accessible from the eating area (to reheat food if necessary without walking through the food preparation area). However in your kitchen, it may still be easy to get to the microwave if it's to the right of the fridge, because you can walk around the island from the other side (near stairs) without walking past the cooktop/sink/fridge area.

Regarding the rebate, I re-checked this because I thought the separate fridge and freezer did count as two separate appliances toward the $400 gift card for buying three appliances. According to the Electrolux rebate form, "Only one appliance from each category may be applied to rebate offer, except All Refrigerator/All Freezer category. If both All Refrigerator and All Freezer are purchased, it qualifies for two appliance purchases". That seems to make it clear that the Electrolux all-fridge and freezer do indeed qualify, and along with an oven would add up to the 3 appliances needed to get a $400 rebate. However, I just noticed as I re-read the rebate form that only the stainless-steel ovens (either IQ or Wave) qualify, not the black ones. If I had bought the Elux fridge, freezer, and black oven and then found out I didn't qualify for the rebate, I'd have some serious words for Electrolux because this web page, which you get to if you click on "wall ovens" from the main Electrolux site, strongly implies that ovens of any color qualify for the rebate. Yes, only the model numbers for the stainless versions are shown above the "2 rebates for up to $500" link, but it does show little squares for black and (for some models) white color options too, and if you click on the black square to change the color, you're taken directly to a web page describing the black oven without ever making it clear that the color change disqualifies you for the rebate. If you wanted the Electrolux F/F and a black oven, I suppose you could opt for one of the qualifying Electrolux dishwashers instead of the Frigidaire. I also wasn't aware that the Frigidaire had a fingerprint-resistant or easier-to-clean finish - a detailed comparison of the Frigidaire/Electrolux/Kenmore versions (all which are actually built by Electrolux and thus the similarity) is still on my to-do list before I buy a set for my own kitchen; I don't know which brand I'm going with yet.

Meanwhile, Frigidaire has some rebates going on too. The rebate form I get to online doesn't show their all-fridge or freezer qualifying, but when I was at the local Home Depot they definitely showed me on their computer that the Frigidaire all-fridge (Home Depot SKU 220846) and FPUH19D7LF freezer (SKU 220895) bought at the same time qualified for a $400 rebate called "Buy More, Save More" that runs through November 11 - and that's without any third appliance. That may be a Home Depot-only promotion, because HD is hawking their recent addition of Frigidaire and Electrolux appliances to their stores. I have that info from a printout they gave me at the store; however, when I go to the HD website, it doesn't show either the fridge or the freezer being available at all. Don't know what's going on here; I'll have to go back to HD and have them go through their computers and ask for a printout of the rebate form to know for sure. I do have a printout showing both appliances being available at HD for the price of $1,549, including delivery and removal of an old fridge, but not taxes. In my area, both also qualify for a rebate from the local utility that covers Energy Star-qualified appliances.

> Do you think we will have a problem with activating the Elux Wave Touch when we are using the Advantium above it? That would be a real hassle....

Don't understand what you're asking - what do you mean by "activating", and why would having an Advantium above it make a difference? And do you mean the over-the-cooktop or wall-oven Advantium?

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 8:53PM
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The Frigidaire $150 rebate ended today, so the appliance store worked up an invoice to get me started on that just in case. Their price is $1435, including delivery and they are a dependable local store.

The Frigidaire is that fake stainless- It is more gray than the real stainless. The Icon twins had fingerprints all over them - DH commented immediately on it.

By activating, I meant turning on the control panel.
"Wave-Touch´┐Ż Controls
One simple touch and the control panel activates, showing the virtually endless cooking options. After you make your choices, all but the options selected will fade away, returning to an elegant display."

I just wonder if we will accidentally be turning the thing on all the time. I had a Kenmore slide in range that had an angled front. My belly (kinda a normal size belly) would lean against it when I stirred at the cooktop and would turn the oven off. Drove me crazy!

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 10:56PM
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I don't think that will be a problem - it appears from looking at the pictures that the door pull handle protrudes about 2" from the oven control panel that is just above it, and thus your belly would hit the handle before it could wreak havoc on the buttons, and anyway having an oven handle pressing an inch or two into your gut would probably hurt enough that you'd back away before the controls were activated. Also, if it's installed underneath a countertop, the countertop edge may protrude above the controls as well, and you'd likely rub against that more than the control panel if you leaned over the countertop (the countertop edge - normally 1-1/2" thick, is something you don't have with a range). This wasn't an issue with the one I've used because it was a double oven, thus the control panel that operates both ovens is up at about eye level. IIRC, touching the panel the first time simply makes the buttons all light up, and the next press on a specific button chooses that function. To start the oven, you'd have to wake it up by pressing anywhere on the control panel (similar to a touchscreen phone or iPad), then press "oven" or "broil" etc., then "start" before it would turn on, so a random press won't turn on the oven. There are some online videos that show how it works (click on "Product Videos", and select from those on the list at the right). I've only watched the first two, "wall oven" and "percect turkey", but those show how the control panel works.

Often a new rebate starts the day after the old one expires, often with the same basic discounts, occasionally with some changes in rebate amount or which models qualify. Don't have any way of knowing whether they'll be a new rebate for the appliances you want but it sounds like you're protected if the invoice was made today. Appliance companies know that having a rebate that ends within two weeks gets people to buy now, so they prefer to have constantly repeating rebates that begin and end every few weeks rather than one that extends for several months.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2012 at 11:56PM
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Got to thinking about GW today and thought I would finish this thread with a photo of the finished product. We love the kitchen - as always, there are a couple of things that I would change...The Frigidaire twins are OK, but I am not sure that I would recommend them. The handle has fallen off once, is loose again and we are awaiting a new handle. I didn't want the trim kit, but wasn't told that without the trim kit, the units slide all around. The trim kit also provides the wheels and ability to level the units, which we had to try to do with its twisty little furniture legs. Other than that, I like them.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 3:07PM
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Thank you for posting again, your planning happened before I was TKO but I enjoyed reading the thread.

Your kitchen looks lovely, not at all like a 200lb Kardashian in a tube top, lol! My old kitchen was much worse in form and function, but I turned out some terrific meals during the ten years I had it. I hope this is working beautifully for you and your family.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 4:56PM
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So glad you like your kitchen!

Where did you put your oven?

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 6:10PM
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That looks great - love the ceiling! But where are the ovens that were discussed so much? Weren't they right next to the frig/freezer combo in all your plans?

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 8:09PM
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Oh yes, the oven! At the 11th hour, we realized that the fridge specs said it needed something like 19 inches of clearance for the door to open all the way so you could get the drawers out to clean. We panicked that the oven handle would be in the way and moved the oven to the island. It's fine there, no conflicts with the fridge being open at the same time. I worry about water spilling into the electronics. I went with the Electrolux wave touch.I was a sucker for the blue interior and the easy glide racks. OK, who gives a rat's behind what color the inside of the stove is? AND the racks slide so easily that the glass pan of brownies gets enough momentum to slide right out of the oven!I could've saved about $500 on that choice! also, people lean up against the island and the oven chirps. So we lock it and then the lock light stays on which negates the benefit of the dark panel but oh well. We had such a nightmare with our idiot builder that the kitchen was the least of our worries!

    Bookmark   August 25, 2013 at 11:02PM
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Sue, thanks for posting a picture of your finished kitchen and also thank you SO MUCH for posting it to this thread instead of starting a new thread !! I had subscribed to this thread, so I was able to see your reply on this thread. I almost certainly would have missed it if you had posted elsewhere. Send me a private message with your lake house address and we'll see you this weekend ! : ) Hehe, just kidding.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 8:01AM
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Your combination of Fridge - Micro - Toaster oven forms my most frequently used workspace for mini-meals and sandwiches.

When I saw Thu, Sep 20, 12 at 18:59
I thought that not having counter space right under the micro would be a big inconvenience. I need every bit of free counter space around the micro and toaster adjacent to the fridge.

Therefore, I think it's great you had to move the oven to the island! Voiila - prep space!

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 10:42AM
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Beautiful! I love the ceilings too. Can you show us the lake view?

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 11:10AM
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Here is a photo of one of our awesome sunrises! I took this from the window being our dinner table

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 12:07PM
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Fabulous! Thank you!

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 1:10PM
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Sue, your kitchen turned out great. I love that wood ceiling. But with that gorgeous view, a pretty kitchen is just the icing on the cake. Use it in good health.

    Bookmark   August 26, 2013 at 2:34PM
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Sue, congratulations on finishing your kitchen.

We just started and have gutted kitchen. I have selected the Electrolux wave touch 30" to be installed under counter next to fridge (different counter than cooktop)..can you please advise any "Watch-out!!" to install Electrolux under the counter? I saw it yesterday at a store and it has contoured panel on the top, does the round edge interfere with the granite/counter? I read at GW somewhere that there is a junction box that needs space either on side cabinets to the oven or in between oven and counter space...any ideas about that?
Does the oven door get very hot? Have small kids , under counter oven can give more chance for them to touch it...
Would be really helpful if you can post some Oven (installed) pictures.
Thanks a lot.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2013 at 4:00PM
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Very nice and also love the ceiling! Oh, how I wanted those Frigidaire twins but alas, I really didn't have enough room. They look great, though.

Thanks for posting this follow-up! Enjoy your lovely kitchen and that beautiful view.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2013 at 6:03PM
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Thanks, Deedles! I do like the twins very much. However, they didn't tell me that you really need the trim package to keep them from sliding all over the place, and to level them. I just didn't want the fake grills. I needed them to look as small as possible!

MSeth - YES! I forgot how the wave touch interferred with the granite. I didn't notice the contoured front and the salesman didn't warn me. My granite was templated before the oven was installed, so when the oven was put in, it stuck out beyond the granite. It was ugly, unfinished metal lip on top. I could not have kept it like that. The granite guys came back and broke the glue on the island and shifted the entire slab forward. Luckily, there was a little room in my sink cabinet for the sink to move forward just enough for the granite to cover the contour. I tried to take a picture to show how it is basically flush with the counter edge. I am still concerned that liquid might spill on the island and run into the electronics, but it is much better than it was.
Regarding the kiddos...I don't notice that the door gets any hotter than any other oven that I have owned. It does get hot. One thing about it being so low is that when you lean down to open it the hot air french fries your face. So, you will want to teach the kids to stay away from it. The easy glide racks slide so easily, that your food gets momentum and practically slides right off the rack. It also lights up and beeps when people stands up to it and wakes it up. It has a lock feature, but it is a bright blue and it stays on all the time when it is locked, so I don't like to lock the oven. If I had it to do over, I would not buy this oven again. Sorry to tell you that!

    Bookmark   September 22, 2013 at 10:27PM
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Here is the other picture - sorry I don't know how to post two in one reply and can't research it tonight.

Good Luck! Hope this helps!

    Bookmark   September 22, 2013 at 10:29PM
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You know, I do remember a comment on the AJ Madison website about that sliding around issue. There must be some kind of bracket that could be put on the back to stop that?

    Bookmark   September 23, 2013 at 3:35AM
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Thanks Sue for quick response and the pictures. Will talk about this issue with my KD.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2013 at 6:51PM
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Sorry to be asking this so late, hope someone is still reading. We are doing custom cabs and this same oven under a peninsula.

Suesf: Are you saying the cabinets at the sides need to consider this as well, or just that the countertop needs to be extra wide to cover it?

MSeth: Did you follow through and if so, what was your workaround?

    Bookmark   December 30, 2013 at 7:13PM
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