Smallest angle reach in pantry dimensions

lniaAugust 20, 2012

Hi Everyone,

My DH and I have gone back and forth on an angle pantry in the kitchen. We originally had it in the plan but then I eliminated it because I wanted to make the 48 inch range a focal point and have it centered to the wall and island. The kitchen wall with the range is 196 inches. The angle pantry dimensions were 48 inches by 48 inches, thus taking up 48 of the 196 inch wall. Unfortunately there is no good place for a functional pantry and we want to avoid cabinetry pantry. So, I am thinking a good compromise would be to decrease the angle pantry to possibly 36 inches on wall with oven and adjoining wall would be 36 or possibly more if it makes sense. I would have to imagine 24 inch door would be the smallest we could go.

Any advice would be appreciated.

Thanks.

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SMPop18

We have an angled pantry in our new build. It is approx. 54" by 54" so it is pretty large. At first I thought it was too big but now I'm used to it and I know I will appreciated the storage space vs using cabinets. This picture might give you some perspective but doesn't show the adjacent long wall which will have the our refrigerator centered on it.

    Bookmark   August 20, 2012 at 10:41PM
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blfenton

I don't know but if you currently have a corner cabinet, for example a lazy susan, those are usually 36"x36" cabinets. Now try to imagine that all the way up. You will of course have shelving in there - can you reach to the corners and have an efficient set-up? You probably won't be able to stand in there. Take an empty corner of a room and try to mock something up with tape.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 12:33AM
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lnia

Thanks for the pic!
the lazy susan in the one corner of my kitchen is 24x24. Perhaps I could go bigger there if they typically are 36x36.
In regards to a possible angle pantry, I guess I am curious as to how small I can go. The bigger the better of course but i am not willing to dedicate so much corner as the original plan did of 54*60.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 5:57AM
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bmorepanic

There are interior measurements and exterior measurements. These are generally different by about 5" or so. They can be as little as 1.5" different depending on how its constructed. You need to leave yourself enough room inside to be able to maneuver, bend down or get a step stool in there to be able to go up if the shelves go all the way up.

You can make it asymetrical or even flat on one wall - for instance do 4.5 feet (interior) by 36 inches (interior) with a door on the long side. 10" deep shelves on the long side and 18" deep ones on the short side.

We have world's smallest angle pantry and its asymmetrical. It is 50" by 36" on the outside. I have 8" deep shelves on the long side and 12 to 24" deep stuff on the short side. It is really small in there. We don't have a door - just an opening.

You can't really do a non-cabinet one of these in 36" - there just isn't room for a door or an opening. Even with cabinets crammed into a corner (think tall easy reach cabinets), it wouldn't be great because of trying to reach into the depths without rollouts through a small opening. I guess you could have a giant tower of lazy susans.

In case you want to know why - something like this takes up 36" on each of two back walls, then each side moves forward towards each other by 2 feet leaving the front side about 16" long. If using frameless cabinets, you then subtract at least 1.5 inches for the cabinet side walls and another 3/4" for the cabinet door. If using framed cabinets, the subtraction becomes 3.75" for the sides and door. Even thinking pie-cut for the front, its still open only about 10-11" open on each side.

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 7:40AM
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lnia

Thank you for the detailed explanation bmorepanic! You
Mention that depending on construction sides may be as small as 1.5 or As much as 5 inches. Is the difference 2x4 construction versus cabinet construction?
So we took a tape measure and calculated 44x44 as possibility with 24 I ch door. If we do 2x4 I wonder if I could get away with interior of 39....

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 9:44AM
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Angie_DIY

the lazy susan in the one corner of my kitchen is 24x24.

Huh? Are you talking about a wall cabinet or a base cabinet? (I believe blfenton was referring to bases.) Since base cabs are typically 24" deep, you cannot have a 24x24 corner cabinet, except one that has no access to the outside world.

Typically, they are L-shaped, with each leg of the L equal to 36". (This is termed a 36x36 cabinet.)

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 12:52PM
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bmorepanic

I was thinking of 1.5" sides as timber panels, not as cabinet sides - closer to butcher block counter. Double plywood would also work pretty well.

Make sure you're allowing for the depth of the shelving before deciding. This is where cardboard is really helpful. With two sides of 12" shelves, you'd have a triangle to turn in that was about 32" on two sides that reduced down to something less than 24".

A 24" door needs a frame to hang on. Look at the dimensions for rough opening of a prehung door to get an idea - the rough opening needs to be 26" and THEN the stuff at 26" needs to be some sort of solid wood. 44" wide on both outer walls would yield "a line" across the opening side of about 28.25". Because you couldn't have solid stuff at the sides of the door frame on both sides, it would depend on your building inspector/permit process.

Remember that the door needs someplace to "be" when its open - otherwise it will reduce the opening size even further and you'll get snagged by the edge of the door or it's handle.

Also that the intersecting counters need to "finish" and they can't be in front of the door. If you make the pantry a little bit deeper (26" deep) so the counters can die into its sides, that will make the door rough opening space even smaller - to less than 26".

    Bookmark   August 21, 2012 at 2:48PM
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lnia

You were right, Angie, the lazy suzan was 36x36.

Thanks for the great feedback bmorepanic! Seems like we should do 48 inchx48 inch exterior measurements to accomodate for the 2x4, drywall, and 24 inch door+frame.
It is confusing when measurements are mentioned to know if it is either exterior or interior. is it usually interior?

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 10:41PM
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deedles

Can't you build the walls with 2x4's on the flat side so it'd be 4 x 1 3/4"?

    Bookmark   August 22, 2012 at 11:18PM
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bmorepanic

What deedles is suggesting depends on whether your local codes permit that. Most building departments are not long on allowing things that are different or special. They like stuff by the book.

By the book framing is 2x4's on edge, at least every 16" on center with doubles at rough openings for doors. Deedles hasn't allowed for the thickness of the finished wall coverings - another 1-1.25 inches depending on what you use.

Calling it a site built cabinet with a cabinet style door might fly as long as (1) not drywalled and (2) none of the short walls need to have switches or electrical outlets or you're willing to have them surface mounted.

I hope this is clear but no, 48" isn't enough to have a 24" door.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 12:25PM
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