If this is it, please let me know (not the huey lewis song)

maggiebkitAugust 23, 2012

Here's my layout, what do you guys think?

We are a 4 person family with two kids and usually only one cook, though I am trying to let the kids hep out a little more.

Here is the overhead view. The rectangle on the right is a wall that can't be moved. The entrance to the kitchen is between that wall and the pantry unit. The part of the room that you don't see at the bottom of this layout is where we have our eat-in kitchen table. Next to the fridge is the entrance to our dining room.

Here is the sink run. We are putting in the window, so the placement of that is flexible, but I do think I like having the sink in front of it. The sink we want requires a 36 in base. The 21 inch base cabinet all the way on the bottom left will be a magic corner. We originally had a super susan in the corner, but then that leaves us with a too small for anything 9 inch cabinet which I didn't really like. The top cabinets will be a blind corner, but I can't come up with a solution that won't make the cooktop run unsymmetrical.

Here is the cooktop run. We want a 36 in cooktop.

Here is the island, not sure why it's fuzzy, sorry about that. We decided not to do a prep sink to save on plumbing, sink, and facet costs.

Would love to hear your thoughts!

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I am not a good layout person, but my first thought was how far the fridge was from the sink prep area.

Any way the fridge and pantry could be flipped?
You have a lot of nice room to play with!

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 10:14PM
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It's pretty, and looks functional. The only thing I don't love about an L with an island where all of the appliances are on the L (as opposed to sink and dw on the island, for example) is that necessary items end up far away from each other.

I'd swap the micro/oven with the fridge. You want cooking elements together because you often use them together, and it lets you pull something hot out of the oven, and place it on the stove. Fridge and pantry belong together because that's where all the food goes, and fridge items often need to be washed before use so you want it near the sink. Of course the oven stack is 30" and the fridge is probably 36" so there will be downstream effects.

Or, you can leave it just the way it is. Everything fits, no major issues, and it'll look great. No kitchen is perfect.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 10:28PM
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I would flip the fridge and the ovens. What purpose is the island serving? It doesn't appear to have a dedicated function.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 10:43PM
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Three votes for moving the fridge, I'll have to seriously consider that.

CEFreeman- I'll have to check out the clearance for the fridge doors.

EAM44- thanks, good point about the hot items coming out of the oven. I'll draw that out tomorrow and see if I can make it work.

Palimpsest - In my mind I was picturing the kids doing homework at it while I got dinner ready, or eating breakfast while I packed lunch. Also, I think I need all the drawers for storage. Should I be thinking about it differently?

Thanks everyone!

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 11:04PM
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A other vote for moving the fridge if you aren't doing a prep sink.

Are you planning on stools at the curved part of the island? Is the 42" from the overhang on the furthest point of the curve? Or from a skinnier part of the island? From the island cab to the wall or from the overhang to the wall? Even if 42" was from the counter overhang at the widest point of the island, that's not enough of an aisle if you have anyone walking behind the island.

Speaking of overhang, how much do you have on the island? 15" is a minimum for counter height seating.

    Bookmark   August 23, 2012 at 11:20PM
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would you have enough room to change the trash and dishwasher around?

the open dishwasher will block the aisle of anyone wanting to enter or leave the kitchen.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 8:01AM
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I'd make the island smaller - its nearly 8 feet and I'd cut it down to 5-6 feet of cabinets. It's plenty of length for prep. I'd also "box" it and make the whole counter be 3'3" wide and cut the seating down to just two positions on the end where the dining room is by arcing that end to almost a half-circle. That would add another ?1.5 feet? back to the island length and serve as the overhang.

If you want to keep the ref where shown and don't enjoy walking, add a prep sink to the island. I kinda feel like the ref is in an ok position to the table. I almost feel like the sink run and dish storage should be where the cooktop is to be more accessible for setting table, doing dishes.

Not disagreeing with the decision to have a 30" ref, just making sure you know that's the size shown.

Not disagreeing with decision to split up tall objects, but making sure you know that even with the island, you may feel cutoff when cooking because the tall stuff will cut you off from others who may be in the dining room.

Lots of people quote statistics on prep-v-cook time. I think most of those are based on professional chefs and I know a popular one is based on army cooks. I spend a lot of time at the range. I'm enough of a geek that I measured what I do and found that those studies don't necessarily apply to me. I wouldn't want you to be surprised at the end.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 8:09AM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

Hi, maggiebkit, I don't comment on too many layouts, but you are planning essentially the same layout that I have, so I feel qualified to offer advice. I did a budget facelift/remodel, did not move plumbing, so kept the sink in the same spot in relation to stove and fridge.

I'll throw you a curve, and suggest that you keep the fridge where it is--close to dining areas, and consider switching the sink and cooktop. You can split the window and put the stove between two smaller windows (if the exterior appearance is not adversely affected.)

Advantages that I see are:
You will prep between sink and cooktop, and have a view while working.

You will have views from both windows while cooking.

Cooktop is closer to oven, convenient for venting both, and preparing recipes which utilize both.

Dishes and cleanup are closer to dining areas, and DW is no longer in entry path.

Disadvantage is no window over sink, if that's not an exterior wall--maybe a deal breaker for you.

As bmore suggests, I'd make the island shorter, so that anyone who comes from the entry and makes a beeline for the fridge (starving teenager), doesn't have to travel around the bottom and back.

As for skipping a prep sink, I don't have one in the kitchen proper, but I have a small 'auxiliary' sink a couple of steps away, in another room. I love the flexibility of having a second sink as a drop zone for anything that needs to be soaked, or as a back-up sink if I'm using the large sink for canning, etc. If you can squeeze a second sink into the floor plan and the budget, I'd recommend it!

Finally, if you keep the current layout, it's not too far to walk in a small kitchen--mine is ap 13.5x13.5, so very similar to yours. The fridge is four steps from the sink, and I don't find it too inconvenient. I would like to see your microwave closer to the fridge, but in the real world of small kitchens, sometimes we have to make adjustments. Good luck with your remodel!

Here is a link that might be useful: google search - stove between windows

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 9:50AM
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I have to agree with bmore & mamagoose. I think you would definately benefit by switching the cooktop & sink.

I do have a prep sink as well and even though it is in a strange location I find I use it quite frequently.

Everything else I would stick with, leave fridge where it is. I think you want it close to the dining area as well.

Good luck.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 10:36AM
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Ok, so here is layout A. Don't know why the pics are so big-sorry. I swapped the Fridge and Micro/oven. Sorry it's not drawn as nice.

Breezy-I was planning on stools on the curved part of the island, I have 15" overhang and I wasn't expecting that aisle to be a big thoroughfare, except now to get to the fridge you'll have to go that way. Hmmmm

Juliekcmo- My concern with swapping the dishwasher and trash was being boxed in at the stovetop and unable to get to the sink when the dishwasher was open.

Here is plan B. I finally used pencil so I din't smudge ink all over the place! Not sure what goes over the sink, or where the trash goes...

Bmorepanic- Is that what you meant about the island?
The opening to the dining room is an open doorway that is not very wide so you don't feel very connected to the dining room as it is now. The wall between the dining room and kitchen is load bearing, so we are not going to make any changes there. As to the eat in kitchen area, it is a little off center and more towards the right so I think we'll be all right on that point.
I agree about the amount of time spent in front of the stove is more than the 10% I've been reading about.

Mama goose-I'll have to look for your layout, are there pictures out there of your finished kitchen?
I'm ok with no window over the sink, but I am at loss as to what would go there so I am not staring at upper cabinets.

PattyJill-That was why we originally put the fridge there, easy to get drinks for dinner, or the butter/milk etc.

Thank you all so much!

I like the look of the cooktop run, not so sure about the sink area. Feels too tucked in somehow.

I can see a lot of our issues could be solved with a prep sink, which I guess would cost less than putting in another window...

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 3:58PM
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Yes, it is for the island - although it looks maybe a bit long.

I think the prep sink would work well with the sink on the top wall. It's not truly needed when the cooktop is up there.

It can feel pretty stressful making that type of decision - that's where you think about the costs for sure, but also whether someone will be doing cleanup tasks while another person is cooking. Without the stools on the long side, the runway to the top wall is much more open.

About it feeling hemmed in, you can overcome that partly through just making the backsplash area taller - use 24" instead of 18", or by using some open shelving. Another version is a "regular" cabinet on the ref side, have a completely open area above the sink and two open shelves on the right side. Some is layout and some is decorating.

But I can't tell you if that is too small - I've worked in way many small kitchens and don't have an opinion. The one things I've learned is that what drives one person bananas is just fine for somebody else (and they even recommend it).

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 8:57PM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

Ooh, ooh, ooh, (waving my hand wildly :), if you want to feel more connected to the DR, and don't know what to put over the sink--if you put the sink on the common wall, you could do a 'window' or pass-through. Here's a pic of my sink, with the borrowed view into our multi-purpose room. I call it that because sometimes (most of the time) it's a playroom, often a dining room for big dinners, and most recently a shop/tool room.

While I'm in photobucket, the long shot:

It's not finished, because I can't make up my mind about flooring. And here is a shot of my hand-drawn layout (now you don't feel so bad about yours, do you!?)

Here is a link that might be useful: And another pass-through/kitchen/scullery.

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 9:55PM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

Also, if you click on my username, it will go to my Member Page, where I've left links to my kitchen threads and photo albums.

I searched my files until I found another pass-through pic. I think it's another GW member. I can't remember who, and didn't save the name, but I want to hug this person for making my ideas seem more normal:

    Bookmark   August 24, 2012 at 10:28PM
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Hi, i have some "food for thought".

I would consider a rectangular island.

I would relocate the refrigerator where the micro is located. And move the microwave to the island - use the Sharp drawer 24". If you want more space on the sink wall between the sink and the refrigerator then maybe move the pantry to a hutch type cabinet system [12" cabinets down to countertop and drawers below?] where the refrigerator was located? Then you could put a utility cabinet that is skinny where the pantry is located now.

I think you want to range where it is so that you can converse with folks easier...you spend more time at the stove when people are around. My kitchen is empty when clean up time rolls around :)

    Bookmark   August 25, 2012 at 11:09PM
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Thanks again for all your help. Working on another layout with the sink in the island. WIll start a new post on that one though.

LOL-I laughed at you waving your hand in the air. Your hand drawn layout is lovely, as is your kitchen. We can't do a pass through like that because the wall in between the kitchen and dining is filled with every kind of pipe leading to our upstairs...

JeannieMer-Thanks for the ideas. Going to try to draw this out again and respost.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 6:21PM
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Poor maggiebkt...

Really I'm smiling because I put my 'finished' layout on here awhile back and after many suggestions and ideas just like you're getting, I have something COMPLETELY DIFFERENT than I started with including a prep sink. But I'm excited about it. And you will be, too. Looks like you have a lot of area to play with though so that's a positive.

    Bookmark   September 17, 2012 at 11:34PM
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Thanks for the encouragement deedles!!

    Bookmark   September 20, 2012 at 1:18PM
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