plan review- cad back from KD

illinigirlAugust 8, 2013

Here's the plan back from the designer. Looking for feedback. There were some changes to be made already and I put them in red. This is the initial layout without any cabinetry details. I double checked the walkway, landing, aisle and zone rules recommended on the FAQ page. This meets everything except the cleanup zone being between the fridge and the cook zone. I don't think this is going to be an issue based on our family. I always empty dishes before I start prep, and I always get all prep items out of the fridge before starting prep/cook. Lastly I think the tradeoff of keeping snackers outside the prep and cook zone is a good one.

Everyday plate/bowl storage will be across from the d/w, also convenient for plating from the range. Beverage cups/coffee mugs will be in uppers in the coffee/snack area.

Couple specific questions:
What is the best aisle width between the fridge and island?
Do you think the micro is in the best location (other options would be centered along that counter run, or on the other side of that counter run.

Pantry doors will be matching to cabinetry door choice and hardware.

Thanks for all the continued feedback!


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How about fridge on the same side as stove? Or at least I would try to move the fridge up along the current wall toward mudroom so that it is can better accessed from sink and stove.

Just my thoughts. I have no experience in kithcen design and I am still trying to figure out the layouts for my new build.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 3:15PM
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Illinigirl, it's looking really nice. IMO the MW position can't be beat, or at least somewhere right along there. Maybe not directly over where short people are going to be pouring milk on cereal?

(Jeff, some on this forum feel strongly that the refrigerator should be positioned on the outside perimeter of the kitchen's work space so family and friends can raid it without entering the work space.

You're going to see this again and again, along with other "signature" forum ideas, but like almost all the notions they should all be considered since they work well for many, then kept, massaged, or tossed altogether as desired.

We're a couple with grown kids who put out the drinks before the guests arrive, so you can imagine how likely I am to sacrifice for them--as opposed to all those people who're going to hopping up and down from Illinigirl's stools. It should work well for them.

Another notion you'll see now and then, from me, is that refrigerators are the "elephant in the room." From a visual standpoint, it's desirable to place them where they're seen sideways, or not at all, from major viewpoints. When you're browsing pictures for ideas next time, look for the refrigerator. Almost none of the "main" or only pictures will show it at all. Functionally, it would be best alongside the stove, but on that wall it'd either be in main view and looming over the dining table, or on the other end so that the stove would end up steaming, crackling, smoking and smelling close to the table. Another one that's strictly up to each of us, though.)

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 3:57PM
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Regarding the fridge to island question. I have 78 inches from fridge wall to island and my fridge sticks out 33 inches (not including handle). This leaves me 45 inches between front of fridge and island. I like the distance and it was recommended by the kitchen designer. We never have to move for someone to open the doors (french door fridge) when standing at the island.

You have a lovely design. Good luck!!

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 4:28PM
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I would swap the fridge and oven, too...but I'd want a baking area. That would be a great area for built-ins, for flour and other baking supplies.

Also, I like to cook and be able to grab ingredients out of the fridge. I'm not good about taking everything out before I start...and my soy cheese tends to melt very quickly! :)

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 8:24PM
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I don't think the fridge can be recessed where the ovens are and a conventional depth fridge would be "looming" there.

I would maybe switch the fridge and the microwave to shift it slightly more into a work triangle location. It would create a cubby of sorts below the microwave which some people don't like, and shortens the net run of flexible-use counter, which some people don't like, but I think it creates a dedicated set down area for it.

    Bookmark   August 8, 2013 at 8:55PM
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Any other thoughts?

Looks like I will be giving more thought to the fridge location. I didn't want too much going on at the back range wall and I was indeed trying to keep it on the perimeter, although I will definitely think about moving it closer to the mudroom entry. I was kind of trying to keep that expanse of counter on that side in one run rather than broken up.

Lavender lass- I was very much thinking about baking items over on that run on the right of the range. I may or may not keep the flour/sugar type supplies there. I have a special needs child who is into everything and my intention was to keep all non perishables in the pantry and locked. This has it's own special inconvenience to it, but not as inconvenient as a bag of flour all over the house, etc. The size of the pantry isn't shown here but it is quite large.

But pans, cookie sheets, mixing bowls and the like, yep- all that will be over on that side. I'm still working through where I might like extra deep counters and that may be one location to consider. Would love more input on that!

thanks for input so far, I really think I'm making progress and feeling much better about things working out. We love this floor plan but the open nature of it has made the kitchen a bit tricky.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 7:52AM
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illinigirl-not much to add except I'm jealous! :) Our layout seems similar but our kitchen is a bit smaller and I am still trying to figure out how to get my pantry opening into the kitchen proper. Didn't yours start out off the mudroom also? I think I saw that on maybe the building a home forum. I suppose I need to start another thread!

I am also thinking about a 45" aisle between fridge and island - there is a lot of traffic there.

If you do extra deep counter by the MW that might be helpful but you'd likely bake/prep for baking over by the ovens and that would be handy too. Can you go deeper with on a wall with a cooktop? That I do not know.

When are you hoping to break ground?

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 10:42AM
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Hi Ilinigirl,

Lots to like about this design. You must have a big family. How much space do you have between the dining room chairs and stools directly behind them. I think you should have 60 inches, but I may be wrong, between counter and dining room table. Nevertheless, it does look tight. Hopefully, a poster with more kitchen credentials can double check that spacing. You could check for yourself on NKBA guidelines.

Good luck. It will be a great kitchen.


    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 11:38AM
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What about switching the DW and trash? And putting the mugs, plates,etc to the right of the range and platting there. That area is closer to where you are eating and it keeps people from walking through the range area to pick up plates. The DW is then closer for people putting dirty things into the DW and cutlery is closer to the table for setting it.

I don't get why you want all that stuff to the the left of the range.

Where are you actually planning on prepping? On the island, on the range wall or on the fridge wall?

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 12:28PM
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we are hoping to break ground by end of October but I really don't know if we are on track for that or not. I also don't know about having deeper counters adjacent to range. It might look odd of it's not balanced on both sides of the range. The prelim plan had the pantry just a couple feet over into the family room and I insisted it get moved back to the kitchen. It was never in the mudroom.

In the plan it does look light a tight aisle between the dining room and island but two things make it better: the island is shown at 12 feet and I want it shortened to around 10, and second, the dining wall (south wall) is going to be extended out 2 feet so in total we will have at least 60 inches between end of island and start of dining table. I think actually more.

I did originally think of having the trash and d/w switched but that puts the d/w exactly behing the range which puts cleanup smack into the prep/cook zone. My reasoning for so much on the left of the range is to protect the cook/prep zone. We eat mainly at our island. I'm not concerned about a walk from the dining table to the sink because we use our dining table about as often as many people use their formal dining rooms which are also far away from the kitchen cleanup sink.
I anticipate prep to be mainly at the island, and if a second person is prepping they can be on either side of the range as is most convenient for them. I still plan on cutlery to be in the island because it's easy to remove the cutlery basket from the d/w and bring it to the drawer.

The counter run on the left by the fridge is for the toaster oven, coffee maker, and micro for secondary snack meal prep.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 1:12PM
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Anyone else have any insights on this plan in general and also the fridge location? I'm not sure what my preference would be to move the fridge and break up that counter run or leave the counter run in tact.


    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 2:26PM
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Sophie Wheeler

Bump out the breakfast area 2'. There isn't enough room for traffic there. Keep the oven where it is, and put the fridge on the back wall, so you're flanking the cooktop with two tall elements. Then make the cooktop counter deeper to be able to have a standard depth fridge not stick out. You get extra counter space that way.

Get the cleanup sink off of the island and put it to one side on the run that doesn't have a lot of reason to exist. Without some function there, it's wasted counter space because it's not in the right spot to be used. Then put a prep sink on the island. Now you have the ability to have multiple people working at the kitchen island and at cleanup.

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 2:55PM
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thanks holllysprings!
I like that layout too. Where do you think the preferred location for the micro would be, or does it matter if it's left or right of the cleanup sink?

I'm estimating there is about 3 feet to the left of the cleanup sink and 4 to the right, am I about correct on that?

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 5:24PM
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Well holly springs beat me to it. I was going to say that with such a large kitchen you should be able to put in a second sink. I wasn't sure where but her suggestion is great

    Bookmark   August 11, 2013 at 9:31PM
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I really prefer Holly's layout. The only thing I think I would change is switching the ovens and fridge. I know that as far as looks go, lots of people wouldn't want the fridge in such a prominent location. But as it is now, I think people at the table will walk right through the main cooking zone to get a drink, more ice, a quick snack, etc. In my kitchen with 2 almost teens, it would be a problem.

If you move the fridge down near the table, I'd put the microwave in the island directly across.

    Bookmark   August 12, 2013 at 8:42AM
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