Granite Fabricator Template Friday - help pls

mirucaAugust 7, 2013

Fabricator template for granite is occurring on Friday and I need help knowing what are items I should be sure to note or question.

We are doing a 2" granite backsplash (already received backlash on this as they are steering us to a 4" .. No Way I say!) Anyhow- does the backsplash sit on the granite countertop or between the countertop and the wall ? Is there special calk or seal that should be used? Anything else I should be aware of or request or question about on the backsplash?

There will be an undermount sink - not sure I understand the negative vs positive reveal if someone could explain - and is there anything I should be sure to request on this?

Airbutton - is there a preference of left or right side for this - how far from the faucet should it be?

Overhang - 1" OR 1 1/2" OR ????

Island overhang is 16" - I want to have invisible support... no corbels. I've seen some discussion on this but would appreciate knowing what you used if you have invisible support.

Any and all suggestions would be most helpful please!

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badgergal

The link below has good information for your upcoming templating.
My overhang is 1-1/2 inches from the cabinet face. I would not want it less.
I have a divided sink and my air switch is on the same side as the disposal. With a single bowl you can most likely put it on either side but it my work better to be on the side closest to the disposal/drain.
There have been lots of threads about sink reveal. Just do a google search for info. My sink is flush with the edge of the counter so I have no reveal.
The backsplash sits on top of the counter. The fabricator should seal the joint where the top and splash meet.
Hope all goes well.

Here is a link that might be useful: countertop templating

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 1:00AM
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gpraceman55

The backsplash sits on top of the counter. They will probably use some silicone caulking to adhere the backsplash to the wall. Before that, they should silicone all edges of the counter, including under the overhang, with a color appropriate caulking. For our stained cabinets, it was a clear silicone.

Negative reveal - counter overhangs the edge of the sink some. Some like this better as you can wipe the counters off directly into the sink (instead of onto the sink edge).
Positive reveal - The edge of the sink is exposed past the edge of the counter. Some like this better as it is easier to see if the edge needs cleaning.

Typical overhang is 1-1/2". You want it to overhang past the doors and drawer fronts.

You can do the "invisible" metal brackets for your overhang. I'd recommend 1/2" thickness, as our 1/4" brackets had too much give to them for my liking. Make sure to ask who is responsible for installing the brackets. Our fabricator would not install them.

Make sure that you have your sink on hand for the person doing the templating. If the sink came with a template, make sure that is on hand (check what reveal it provides). Also, if you have a cooktop, make sure that is available, or if there is a range, if should be in its proper location.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 1:10AM
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gpraceman55

Also, when our installer was ready to drill the holes for the faucets and air switch, he did ask where we wanted them. It comes down to personal preference. We did the faucet in the center, the filtered water faucet on the left corner (more convenient for filling my coffee pot) and the air switch on the right corner.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 1:17AM
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miruca

Excellent information and link - thank you! Reading this, and doing a couple more searches, brought up the topic of seams ... and how to determine where should they go?

Hoping someone has more information on the invisible metal brackets. Does the fabricator need to do anything to the stone for these/

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 5:15AM
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PRO
Sophie Wheeler

The brackets MUST be installed before the stone gets installed, and usually the granite people aren't responsible for them. That's a kitchen designer/cabinet installer design and install collaboration. The cabinet design must be designed with support in mind as not all cabinets will support granite using those brackets. Some need an additional plywood backing or pony wall to provide the support for the weight. And all of the cabinets must be well anchored to the floor as well. You don't want them to tip over!

There are about 5157 different threads on here about granite templating and what happens during that process. Read up!

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 7:21AM
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calumin

The backsplash sits above the countertop.

On the overhang, you don't say if you are using 2cm or 3cm granite, but if you are using 2cm and adding a plywood support, you can have the builders build slots in the plywood and insert steel metal brackets into the plywood. That way the countertop will lay flush over the support even at the overhang.

If you do use metal brackets, they should extend the full length of the countertop. I spaced mine at 24". Each bracket was 3/8"d" by 1 5/8"w. I went to a steel warehouse to have them cut to order.

As hollysprings said, you need to have the materials for the overhang support ready and any special build done by your contractor before the countertop is installed.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 9:47AM
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suzanne_sl

These are the supports for our peninsula overhang:

They are flat bars that sit into niches routed into the top of the cabinets. The part you can see here is shorter than the rest of the bar that sits on top of the cabinets. In our case, the granite guys did the routing and placing since they were the ones who knew exactly what they wanted. As hollysprings pointed out though, on some jobs the cabinet installer is responsible for the routing, etc. You'll need to find out who's doing what for your particular job just to be sure someone has this responsibility on their job ticket.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 10:19AM
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suzanne_sl

These are the supports for our peninsula overhang:

They are flat bars that sit into niches routed into the top of the cabinets. The part you can see here is shorter than the rest of the bar that sits on top of the cabinets. In our case, the granite guys did the routing and placing since they were the ones who knew exactly what they wanted. As hollysprings pointed out though, on some jobs the cabinet installer is responsible for the routing, etc. You'll need to find out who's doing what for your particular job just to be sure someone has this responsibility on their job ticket.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 10:20AM
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suzanne_sl

These are the supports for our peninsula overhang:

They are flat bars that sit into niches routed into the top of the cabinets. The part you can see here is shorter than the rest of the bar that sits on top of the cabinets. In our case, the granite guys did the routing and placing since they were the ones who knew exactly what they wanted. As hollysprings pointed out though, on some jobs the cabinet installer is responsible for the routing, etc. You'll need to find out who's doing what for your particular job just to be sure someone has this responsibility on their job ticket.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 10:21AM
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suzanne_sl

Apologies. When I hit "submit," I kept getting a pop up asking if I really wanted to open a cgi file from GW. I kept telling it to go away, and tried "submit" again. Guess what? Never got the "message has been sent" box. I tried the edit function, but it won't let me delete the extra two.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 10:28AM
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miruca

suzannes - it's ok... I'm reading things at least three times - lol.

I so appreciate the responses... and yes hollysprings, I have been reading up lots before I even posted... I always try to do lots of searches on GW.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 11:17AM
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miruca

suzannes - it's ok... I'm reading things at least three times - lol.

I so appreciate the responses... and yes hollysprings, I have been reading up lots before I even posted... I always try to do lots of searches on GW.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 11:18AM
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debrak2008

My faucets were cut on site which was great. I knew I wanted the main faucet in the middle but was unsure of the hot water dispenser.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 2:13PM
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oldryder

I am a fabricator.

backsplash; some stones will not survive being cut down to a 2" wide piece; it will literally fall apart. Quartz and some stones are fine but regardless you'll probably have more backsplash seams with 2" material because 2" pieces are so fragile.

"Negative reveal" = overhang. Reveal means some amount of the top flange of the sink is exposed. My shop does a very slight (1/16") overhang because it hides the caulk joint and eliminates the exposed rim that eventually gets beat up.

The overhang generally goes from 1 - 1-1/2". More becomes an interference with drawer access and less than 1" makes it much more likely the joint between the countertop and cabinet is exposed. It's common for there to be a gap in some areas between the countertop and the cabinet. (cabinets usually aren't perfectly level and the backside of the granite is not perfectly flat.) The overhang masks the countertop/cabinet joint from casual observation.

lots of ways to do "invisible" supports as per other posts. If they are as slight as some in the pics you might want the overhang rodded. Rodding is the process of embedding metal strips in the underside of the stone (like re-bar in concrete) so a big piece of stone doesn't go crashing to the floor in the event of a fracture.

I am aware of 2 incidents where this happened; once when a teenage daughters football player boyfriend hopped up on to the counter and broke off the overhang. The other was a homeowner that came in with (2) 24 packs of beer and dropped them on to the counter.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 4:30PM
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miruca

Thanks oldryder - the backsplash at 2" is a must due to space between window and counter ... but also visually a 4" just gags me. So if the granite cannot be done at 2" I will have to think of some other ideas - which are likely to be post closing...darn it.

Excellent to know about the potential for fracture with invisible overhang. I like the rebar concept.

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 8:03PM
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gpraceman55

What are you going to do with the rest of the backsplash? If tile, why not just tile the entire backsplash?

This post was edited by gpraceman on Wed, Aug 7, 13 at 20:11

    Bookmark   August 7, 2013 at 8:10PM
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miruca

gpraceman - we are doing stainless steel between the range and hood - but not doing anyother backsplash at this time...or maybe ever. On the wall opposite to the range is an 8 ft wide window - and a to the counter upper cabinet .. so there isn't really much to backsplash.

I am also not a fan of tile for myself - I do not like grout lines or cleaning tiles and grout.

Someone on GW did a two inch backsplash and it looked sleek and clean - so was hoping I could do the same.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 12:35AM
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may_flowers

That 2" backsplash was marble.

    Bookmark   August 9, 2013 at 8:11AM
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miruca

Thanks everyone for the good information. As a result of all the good guidance I pushed to have the template delayed as the sink and the range were not yet placed. Now - I also have more time to ask questions from what I've learned.

Re the 2" granite backsplash I am going to do more research - I did find nicole93089 did a 2' granite back splash.

I've put all the excellent informaiton into one document and will post as a reference for others for the future.

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 1:48AM
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localeater

Miruca, I found an old thread on a 2" granite splash so I thought I would share. Not a lot of pictures and the thread is old. There are pictures of a gorgeous kitchen I had never seen before Alku05- she has a 1.75" splash on one wall and full tile on the other-it looks amazing.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 8:28AM
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miruca

Thanks localeater... that was a good thread and was not one I've seen amongst my search results. I love the look of Alku05's backsplash!!

    Bookmark   August 10, 2013 at 11:39PM
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