Kitchen layout help

jackson2348July 20, 2013

Hi all, I'm looking for some help with the layout of our new construction kitchen. I have a couple of specific issues with the plan as it stands. Here is the current plan:

Wider view of the first floor:

1. We moved the stair closer to the bottom of plan so we could get the doorway to the kitchen Closer. The garage entrance is from the top left of the plan. That took away our walk in pantry, and we'll have one under the stairs, which will barely clear the bottom of the stairs with a 6'8" door. I'm concerned this will be too small.

2. Three, yes count 'em, three sinks. The main and prep are needed. The one in the back hall across from the new pantry we added because we'll have the bev fridge and ice maker there. But 3? Is that really necessary?

3. As the plan is now the only place I see for the coffee pot is in that back hall. My husband HATES this idea. Any solutions y'all can see to get it back in the kitchen proper?

4. I think the DW needs to move to the left of the sink, but dish storage will be in the 30" cabinet on the far right of that run (cab will run to the counter). Is that too far? Should we move the sink off center of the window so we have DW, sink, then immediately the 30" cab?

5. I'm thinking we will have a 36" range then a micro and smaller single oven stack, with no other uppers on that wall. Is the micro too far from the fridge? I can make the window smaller and put a micro next to the fridge, but I'm reluctant to lose the light. Thoughts? Ideas?

By the time we get this built our youngest will prob have a year or 2 left of high school, so it will mostly be just 2 of us. I am the primary cook, and we entertain fairly often, mostly very casual.

I appreciate those of you who made it through my dissertation and can offer some help!

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mama goose_gw zn6OH

Hi, jackson2348, I'll put down my thoughts, and hope you get more responses tomorrow.

A beverage center/butler pantry is usually located between the kitchen and DR, or between the kitchen and family areas, for the convenience of diners/loungers, and to keep them out of the cooking/clean-up zones. I would move the DW to the left of the sink, and have the dish storage where the fridge is drawn. Would that leave enough room for bev.fridge/ice/coffee in the upper right corner? Would DH be happy with coffee just inside the kitchen? Maybe with it in that location you can eliminate the 3rd sink, and the former beverage center could be used for pantry space.

The fridge would then be located where the oven/appliance garage is currently drawn. I'd move the range down slightly, to accommodate a MW next to fridge, and put some open shelves to right of range, if you need to balance that wall. If anyone in the DR or LR needs something from the fridge, he now doesn't need to cross your cooking or clean-up zones.

The appliance garage can go under the dish storage in the upper left corner, and an extra oven could go in the island, or under MW (or is your extra oven combined with MW?)

IMO the sink doesn't need to be centered under the window if it's more functional off center, but I think you would be OK either way. *If you put the dish storage where the fridge was drawn, another section of window could be added, allowing more light into the kitchen, and the sink location could be adjusted in turn. Good luck with your new home and new kitchen.

*Editing to add: When I took a second look, the first thing that jumped out at me is the 'pinch point' at the lower left corner of the island, and the stub wall. The island could be shortened by 18-22", and still have plenty of room for prep space. Are you having all base cabinets under the counter, or did you need the length for seating? At the very least you could do a clipped corner there.

Personally, I would cheat a few inches from width of the island as well, to allow for extra deep counters, 28-30" (on both walls.) I have 28" counters on my stove wall, and I think most folks on GW who have opted for deeper counters are happy with the results.

This post was edited by mama_goose on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 10:31

    Bookmark   July 20, 2013 at 9:58PM
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I'm noticing the scrap of wall separating the two doorways between kitchen and family room. It's not large enough to be visually strong or useful from either direction, just looks like it's covering a support post. Nor have the two doorways been placed where they are to frame good views. One's to an offset bedroom door, the other's into the kitchen anyway. So, how about removing that middle piece? So my suggestion is, if it's structural, to lengthen the walls on either side enough to do away with it, in the process framing in one important view of the kitchen itself.

Looks like you need to shorten the island; but in any case this might also help a bit with your coffeemaker placement since it increases the "discrete" space not on direct view from the main outside view points.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 3:19PM
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Mama Goose, thanks so much for your thoughts. I don't think I have room on the range wall for range, micro, and fridge with the back doorway in there. This is an earlier iteration of the plan:

The consensus seemed to be it was too far to walk from the garage, so we added an entrance under the stair. I think in doing so we compromised the kitchen layout as well as pantry space, and i think the lesser evil is the longer walk with groceries. If we go back to this layout, I drew this based on some of your very helpful ideas:

Things I'm not sure of here:

Window size and placement. We are doing a box bay to the counter and will add an additional 6-8" of counter depth for the whole length of the window run. The stone counter will be the sill, windows will be casement. Entirely flexible based on function.

uppers on the sink wall. How should uppers die into the range wall? Ideas on the corner cabinet? I had thought I wanted dish storage cabinets to the counter, but can't envision this over a corner lower.

Size and placement of island. I measured, and you were right, that lower right corner only has a 3' 3-4" clearance. I need a prep sink, seating for 4, and trash p/o. Everything else is flexible.

Thanks so much for your help!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 3:32PM
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Rosie, looks like we cross posted. That wall is a shade over 1.5' I'm not really sure why it's there! I agree making a single cased opening there of about 10' would be more reasonable and help hide any not so pretty utility areas in that top right corner. Thanks!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 3:37PM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

I was thinking the passage at the lower left island corner was maybe 30". 3'3" actually sounds doable, and if you could spare 10" from the island, even better. Seating for four would work on an 8' island.

I like the idea of the shortcut door at the back corner, but with the size of appliances you have planned, I can see that there just isn't enough room on that wall for the fridge and MW, unless you are willing to settle for 15" of counter space on each side of the range*. Have you considered putting a MW drawer and extra oven in the island? An 8' island should be able to accommodate them, in addition to prep sink and trash pullout.

*Edited for clarity (lol, I hope any of it is clear.)

This post was edited by mama_goose on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 17:34

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 5:14PM
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The passage at the lower left is 30". The lower right is the one that's 39-40. If I shorten the island by 10" it gives me 36 on the left side. I can also shorten that wall somewhat if the ovens aren't going there and get 42".

I could do a MW drawer in the island, but I think not both an oven and MW because I wanted seating on 2 sides. We're all lined up now and I hate it, ESP since we won't have a breakfast table in the new house.

The 2nd oven could possibly go on the sink side of the island, but idk if I really like that. Plus I was trying to get one oven up a little higher; if I'm going below counter height with it I'd do just as well to go back to the 48" range, I think. I've got approx 7'3" on the range wall if we keep the back door, so that would leave 19-20" on either side of a 48" range. Is that enough?

Obvs I haven't done anything on this version with the sink wall yet. Will tackle that one next!

Thanks again for all your help!!!

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 6:11PM
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mama goose_gw zn6OH

Another idea for the second oven--if you move the beverage center to the right of the clean-up sink, you could put the oven where the beverage center was drawn, any height that is convenient.

You'll need only 15-18" for leg space for the stool on the lower left of the island, so if you go with 15", then a 30" MW drawer, you can have a 24" sink cabinet, a 15" trash pull-out (although I find my 12" to be adequate), and still have 12" for a cabinet for baking sheets or a pull-out for baking items, snacks for the kids, etc.

As for landing space on the sides of the range, the NKBA recommends at least 15" on one side and 12" on the other. Even with a 48" range you'd still be within those guidelines. Try a mock-up with boxes to see if you're comfortable with the space available. The more counter space you have next to the range, the wider you can make the drawers there, so that's something else to consider.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA guidelines

This post was edited by mama_goose on Sun, Jul 21, 13 at 20:48

    Bookmark   July 21, 2013 at 8:41PM
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