Kelleg, Erikanh, Postiano, Pbrisjar, Help : (

boxerpupsJune 8, 2009


I am crying about the floors. I am so very sad. I did not

want a 70s style interior brown floor. A ski lodge from

the Brady Bunch. Ugly! And I am angry at myself for being

such a big baby about this.

The floor guys stained them a mix of English Chestnut and

Mahogany. Which I picked. The floor guys keep telling me

they will get darker. It has been all day and I do not

see them getting darker. Maybe when they put the final

satin finish?

The worst part is the first thing I said when I saw the

floors was, "Oh, we will need to go darker."

The guy said right back.

"Oh you don't want to go darker, it will ruin the look of

the wood. You won't like it."

I don't give a fig about the wood, I want darker floors.

I have a look I am trying to go for and I feel like they

are not working with me. I want a rich warm brown that

looks elegant not like a stained barn.

What do I do? What do you think? Is this going to

look better or worse?

Gosh, I am worn out over this nightmare. I feel like the

owner of this company is more concerned about what people

will say when they see the floors (His work) then about

making the customer happy. They are thrilled with the way

the oak floors look natural. They hated the mahogany stain

saying this is not a natural color for oak. I am so


Thanks for letting me vent. I am being a big baby about

this. There are people in this world hungry, homeless,

jobless and suffering and I am crying about the floors. I

wanted an elegant look and it seems more like a dowdy

barn to me.

Maybe I am just overreacting to the floors. Perhaps

after a good night sleep I can visualize them better.

Trying to be optimistic but feeling sad.

~boxerpups :(

My inspiration pics.. Along with your own floors

Not my inspiration but I would be happy with this

a little lighter brown but it might be okay.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oak floors what color did you stain? Hurry

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I so understand where you came from. The same thing happened to me when I refinished our oak floor (previous house). The darker stain only goes into the grain, while the rest of the wood won't take the stain. So I got exactly what you got, dark grain on a sea of orangy wood.

I talked to my brother who got beautiful refinished oak floor (chocolate/espresso/kinda color) and he said, they should have done test patch of different combination/ stain colors on the floor first for you to pick. His combination was ebony & walnut--minwax stain. However, each floor absorb stain so differently so the best way is to test patch it. He also said, they have to apply couple coats of stain, not just one.

Hope this help. I had to wait for 5 years when I had enough $$ to refinish the whole floor (to pale naked white oak---my taste changed) :-D

    Bookmark   June 8, 2009 at 10:14PM
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Oh Boxerpups I hate to hear that your sad! How many coats have they done? Did they put the poly on yet? My floors did not get any darker as time went by. They pretty much looked the same as when they were first finished...or maybe even a little lighter. What is it with floor guys hating to stain them dark? My guy told me that I shouldn't go too dark either, and I wish I would have done a touch darker.

Go with your gut on this one and get them darker. I think redroze had a similar problem with her floors and she took the time to do them all over. Now she has gorgeous ebony color.

I don't think they look awful at all, but it is not your vision. Did they do a test patch?

I'm thinking of you, hopefully your floor guy will want to make this right!

    Bookmark   June 8, 2009 at 10:22PM
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I went & read your 1st thread -- you did try the patch test :-D
Since they haven't applied the poly, can you have them try another coat or 2 until it's darker?

Hope that would do the trick for you.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2009 at 10:29PM
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I don't have any useful suggestions, boxerpups, but I wanted to say how sorry I am that you're going through this, especially because all the great inspiration pics you always have for every situation prove that you've given the whole thing a lot of thought. :(

    Bookmark   June 8, 2009 at 11:11PM
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Please don't despair!

Have you shown your inspiration photos to the floor guy? I'm sure my contractors were inwardly groaning every time I brought out my laptop, but I made them look at my photos, so they could see exactly what I wanted.

I was worried about English Chestnut not being dark enough and my floor guy told me if I wasn't happy with how it looked after the first coat of stain he'd use a darker stain on the second coat to make it darker. It ended up being just right, but I agree with positano that the floors don't get darker by themselves.

I want to reassure you that the stain alone does look pretty dull and blah. The satin finish will make it look so much prettier and shinier ... but not darker.

If you want darker, then insist on it! If he dares to tell you again, "Oh you don't want to go darker blah blah blah" then you tell him, "Yes, as a matter of fact, I do want them darker." Be firm!

Sending you a digital ((hug)),


    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 12:53AM
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OK, here's my input...

No, that floor is not what you wanted. If you're doing a poly coat it will not get any darker though it might get more yellow/orange. Generally speaking, multiple coats of stain (especially Minwax) don't work well if at all. That first coat fills in all the pores and there's nowhere for subsequent coats to go.

Your floor guys sound like real prima donnas. I'd tell them they either do the job right (meaning the way YOU want it) or they don't get paid. They are there to do a service, not to stroke their own egos. Be strong, be firm.

Did they water pop? Did you even ask them about that? Water popping is really the only way to get a decent dark color with stain. (Yes, I know some here have got there other ways but water popping is the industry standard.)

You *might* be able to fix it by using a coat of another color - a true brown with blue/purple undertones. The generic/standard name for this is Cordovan. I believe Jacobean Walnut in Minwax comes closest to it. That coat would have to be carefully applied and left to dry on its own.

I know all of this stuff from our own personal experiences - lots of trials, lots of errors, lots and lots of research and consulting with a NWFA/NOFMA certified inspector.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 2:03AM
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Doing dark floors is more work than the light colors. That's why I'm saying that your guys sound lazy.

And yeah, "purist" wood guys think that wood should stay as close to its natural color as possible. I say phooey to that. Staining/coloring/treating wood to look like other wood has been around for centuries.

Be strong. You'll get there.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 2:09AM
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The floors will not get darker unless you stain them darker. You know what you want, do not let them talk you out of what you want or you will not be happy down the road. Show them your floor pics and insist that they stain them darker. Remember you are paying them. You have so many pics that you have generously shared with GW and I hope you end up with the kitchen that you have so thoroughly thought out and prepared for. Good luck.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 5:51AM
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You do understand me. I am going to have them stain
something darker today. When I looked at Ebony it gave
off a green tinge not at all making the wood darker.
I am so sorry you had to wait 5 years. I hope this can
be fixed sooner for me. They have only stained the wood
nothing else. maybe it can be fixed.

Thank you, you are so kind. I agree floor guys are stubborn.
I am going to be firm on this and get the dark floors
I want if I have to magic marker them myself. :) Trying
to be positive.
If my floors looked as beautiful as yours I would not
be so sad.

Thank you for the digital hugs. I needed them.
What color was your second coat of stain? I agree about
the groaning over laptop pics.
And I am using that line. "As a matter of fact I do
want to go darker." With a firm smile.

You are so right. Prima Donnas! They refused to water pop.
Looking at me wide eyed like I had 4 heads. I am going
to be firm about this. Firm but kind and get the floors
I want. I do think they are lazy. It takes work to go
darker and they seem like they want to be done with this
job and move on. I will add that they have done a
wonderful job just not the color I want.

You are so kind to chime in. Thank you. Really thank you.
It is so nice to know others understand.

Thanks everyone. I am going to be firm today.
I will let you know how it goes.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 6:28AM
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Boxerpups, it sounds like this can be fixed as you have not headed too far down the path to completion (which also means they are not paid in full yet, I would think). I just wanted to echo others that you have been so generous with your inspiration photos, advice, and encouragement on this forum-- I am hoping kitchen karma will prevail here and you will get the floors of your dreams. Imagine an army of indignant virtual friends standing behind you when you are firm with the flooring guys-- be brave. And no, I don't think anyone here thinks you are being a baby about wanting a floor color that pleases you. You have planned for this reno, you are going through considerable inconvenience and stress, you are paying big $, and you wouldn't be going through this at all if your physical surroundings did not affect your state of mind-- so don't reproach yourself! Good luck today!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 8:16AM
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Thanks. You are so kind to say such beautiful things.
You are right I did spend big bucks. Today I feel better.
They came by, they are kind but I can tell they are
annoyed. They did not stay because they have another job.
Or maybe they are punishing me. Who knows at this point.
They are going to come back tonight. They stained a small
closet with Ebony over the Eng Chestnut and Mahognay. To
try to take away from the orangey color.

They were definitely annoyed because they wanted to come
in put the final coat on and be done. I have added
a new factor to this mess. I was friendly, firm and
explained that I have different tastes. I like what
I like. I like dark floors. MY DH is a little annoyed as
he wants his house back and to be able to go to
the kitchen and have a sandwich. Right now the entire
house is covered in plastic with little areas we can walk.
A real annoyance and for me to add a day to this project
is not fun.

There is still a small part of me worried it will look
badly. Perhaps because they are so reluctant that I find
myself feeling insecure. If I had done this before I
know I would be more confident.

Anyway, I so appreciate your caring words and all the
virtual friends on GW. I know I can get a pretty kitchen
and house one day.


    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 9:11AM
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Here is what they did this morning. They
worked in a pantry closet so it won't be bad to later
correct this if we don't like it. Pardon the messy
trim in this pantry.

They added ebony to try to take away from the orange tone.
I was not sure that adding a Ebony tinged with Green was
the best idea but they did not like the purple hue idea.

What do you think? Does it look okay? Better? It is
hard to tell with a picture. I like it. I think it is
closer to my inspiration pictures.

I have a deep fear of the entire house looking like a ski
lodge from the 70s. I need to squash that worry and go with my instinct of dark floors.

~boxerpups (Worrying)

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 10:58AM
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That looks better, though of course it can be hard to tell. Definitely closer to what you're looking for.

I think I'd still have them do a small patch of the Jacobean so you can see. Odd that they won't do the blue/purple hue. That's what all the wood experts I talked to suggested for us. (In our case, the color we stained the cabinets came out way too orangey/yellow.) Hubby didn't want to do a glaze (at least not yet...) so we wound up slightly adjusting the cab stain color. Also, while I had originally loved red mahogany applied with a water pop (and still do), it was just j=highlighting the yellow/orange. So we found the cordovan tint (the one I posted in the other thread) and I just loved it. It really, really tones down the yellow.

You can see it best here;
From New Floor Colors

(the cab color here is the old color)

Here you can see the cabs with the red mahogany (not water popped version):
From Cabinets

This is the best pic I have of all three:
From KiA Puppy Edition

really dusty red mahogany that is *not* sealed and has been abused (hence the really dull look)
that dark piece you see top leftish is the Cordovan

oh yeah and Nova investigating the wonderful smells at nose level ;)

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 11:30AM
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Nove is adorable. She wants that bacon!

Truly thanks for your help. I can not begin to tell
you how nice it is to have someone understand this
project. I do not know why this floor guy and
his crew are so reluctant to try anything. They are
very much into the wood looking natural. Real wood
guys. Simple folk.

Good idea on the Jacobean wood stain. I am going to push
for that too. It can't hurt to look it over. I will say
I do like this ebony on top of the stain. I keep looking
at at it. It is frustrating because they won't be back
unitl late tonight. They have another job.

I will keep you posted. Thanks again. Cyber dog hugs to Nova.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 12:06PM
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Hey there! Sorry to read about the troubles with the right colour - definitely worth getting what you want as you have a fair amount of floor to look at (and if it is orangey, you might regret it every time you walk into the kitchen!).

Re the three latest photos, are they all of the same stain/area? The first one looks lighter.

Actually, your floors remind me a bit of my fence that I'm staining. I have gorgeous dark chocolate hardwood in the house and most definitely wouldn't want the orange wood (oh, sorry, 'natural') brought indoors.

Good luck and keep us posted!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 12:25PM
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I see a couple of issues here.

The first issue is that the flooring finishers DID do sample patches for you, and you DID OK going with one of the sample patches.

The second issue is that you now don't like the color when you see a large expanse of it. And, you already approved the color.

The third issue is that they seem unwilling and unable to actually produce the color that you say you want now. I kind of get where they're coming from on this, at least a little, as they've already done the work on the floor from a sample you approved. At this point, they're not looking to do a whole lot of extra work for free and are frustrated with you because it seems as though you really can't make up your mind what you want.

To fix this mess, I'd first sit down with them and reassure them that you are willing to pay the extra money for the extra labor to have the floor turn out exactly as you want it to appear. That's probably the big issue in their minds right now, as they don't want to be doing a bunch of extra work that wasn't orignally planned on without being compensated for it.

Then, I'd have them do some more samples until you are able to get the color you want. Be VERY CLEAR that you will not be allowing them to proceed to the finishing stage until the floor staining phase turns out the way you want. Jacobean would probably be a better choice for what you want than the mix you used, or a combo of Jacobean and Ebony. To reassure all that you won't change your mind again, sleep on the "final choice" patch at least 24 hours before proceeding to the final stain process. IF the floor finishers aren't physically able to produce a color close to what you want, then pay them for services rendered and move on to new guys who CAN give you what you want. Yes, it'll be more money, but if it's that important to you, then it's money well spent.

And, finally, don't overthink this too much. Any fairly medium to dark stain that minimizes the orangeyness of the oak WILL work as a backdrop to those lovely cabinets, so as long as the orange isn't there, it'll be OK. Even if it's a shade lighter than you originally wanted. It'll still read as dark against the light cabinets.

Take a deep breath. Communicate. And drink a glass of wine!

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 12:43PM
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This post brought back that "feeling of dread" I had so often when I had to convince my GC & subs to go forward with something that wasn't negotiable for me during our house build 2 yrs. ago.

I'm not confrontational and I generally defer to experts, but in many cases these guys just weren't on board with my vision, wanted to take the quicker/easier way out, or just needed to win a battle.

I can't offer better advice than what has been said in above posts regarding floor finishing, but I just wanted to be another supportive voice telling to you endure the temporary discomfort you will feel when holding your ground and focus on the months/years you will be living with the floor. It's not a small detail and if you don't like it it will haunt you that you didn't add just a few more days to your project to get it done to your taste.

Sending good thoughts your way...

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 12:51PM
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All three pics are the same floor just varying light.
Thanks for your support. They are going to make it darker.
Not sure how they plan to do this. The Ebony seems to help
but I am more than willing to paint the entire floor
chocolate bar brown. :)

You are correct. Overthinking this! This is 2000 sq feet.
More than 1/2 of my first floor. The orange clashes with
my red leather sofa.

I was not clear on GW, Please know they have been
compensated and will be further when we make changes.
We are paying extra for more stain and their time. This
was agreed up front when the said that I wanted to go
darker. Before they even put the stain down. Yes, even
then I said I think we need to go darker. They said they
wanted me to try the mix first. Getting GW support helped
confront or express what I wanted better.

Ironically only one guy (mike)the detail sander man.
Said to me this morning.

"I knew on the drive over you didn't like the stain. "

How did you know I asked him. Mike said that he kept
listening to me ask last night before they left.
"Will it get darker? Does it need another coat? It seems
light to me, sort of orange." Of course the guys said
when all the furniture was back it would look fine. I knew
in my heart it would not. So I broke down and cried alone
with my post on GW.

I thnk these guys are great. They just have different
taste than I. They prefer wood in it's natural state
with little to no stain. I like color and creativity.

But the key point you made is that I am over thinking this.
All will be well.
Thank you. And yes I will have that glass of wine.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 1:31PM
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I just wanted to say that I empathize with you about the dark wood floors. When we moved here (Wisconsin) a few years ago, I couldn't wait to get rid of our orangy/yellow floors. I specifically requested DARK... when the sample stain went on the floor guy really tried to talk me into doing a much lighter color than I wanted. I didn't stand my ground because we were in a rush to move all our furniture in. I still remember he said "what's the point of wood when you cover all the grain"? Definitely, a wood "purist", I guess, but basically he put in what HE liked. Now I find that I might be the only one in the midwest who likes dark floors... it's just not that popular around here. I still want my darker floors and eventually I will get them. Anyway, I hope it goes well for you and you get what YOU want.

    Bookmark   June 9, 2009 at 10:40PM
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Applying some swatches of the wall color choice you plan to go with on the walls would help with your final tone of the floors. Preferably below those windows and the lower portion of the adjacent wall, next to the door.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:15AM
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I am sorry that I am just seeing this. The guy who did the floor for me also likes wood in a natural state. My builder helped me push him to mix a bunch of samples for me. The floor guy acted a bit put out, but in the end, I got what I wanted. I think you should try to get what you want. I think that is what you are doing, right? Are they going to sand the floors again and take the color off?

Good luck. I know how you feel. I have cried about many things on my building project. It is TOUGH!!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:55AM
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Boxer, I hope things are going better today! My only advice is to remember that eventually you'll have things as you want them. There is little in this world that can't be fixed. You may have to do some work at it, but it can be the way you want it.

Your inspiration pics are lovely and I'm sure your new kitchen will be too. Can I hijack your thread for a sec and ask whose kitchen the one is with the three barstools with the double x's on the back? I never would have thought that I would like a sink that didn't face a window, but it works in that situation and may be the solution for me.

Good luck!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 10:40AM
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Hi Amck
I appreciate your supportive voice,
I do not know what it is but when they look at me wide
annoyed, or questioning it seems I begin to second guess
myself. I do not know what I would do without GW.
How do so many of the people on this site hold true to
what they want with these subcontractors so difficult.

You hit the nail on the head. "A wood purist" and wow
did he let me know it. I wish he were a salesman and
not so worried about the wood.

Excellent idea for future projects.
I really wanted to keep my paint colors. You will see
below the updated stain looks far better with my color choices.

I do not know how people do this with such difficult
sub contractors. I could never build a house. Never
because I would be in tears all the time. I do not
have the natural calmness needed for such endeavors.
I have such admiration for those who build their
dream home. Everytime someone tells me they are building
a house I am going to look at them with a sense
of awe and sheer respect.
I think it looks better. I wanted your floors but
I am going to settle for mine. : ) Thanks so much.

Hijack away, That photo is a House Beautiful photo
from a magazine I have. But it is also found on
Google images. I do not have a link, because I scanned
the magazine more than a year ago for my pc folder.
I will look later to see what month and year. But
I should warn you it might be from 2005.


Below are my updated floors. I like them much better.
It is definitley darker then my inspiration pics.
But these guys were very annoying. They did not want to
do a patch of Jacobean or any other color. Clearly
they were up to their eyebrows in annoyance with me.
And yes I paid extra for their time, supplies you name
it, I am going to have a scary bill.
So it is darker but I LOVE it. I do. I think it is more
me. And no orange.

My DH said that the Boss is the most stubborn man he has
ever encountered. The boss a kind person was not happy
with my choice. Telling me it looks like drift wood. Why
would anyone put black on their floor. Later he agreed
is looked better than orange.

For those who want to stain floors. I will tell you that
I learned Stain is not like paint. You can not choose
a color and assume it will look like that. Wood is a
creature of change. Everything has an effect on the
wood. Lights, previous colors, how the stain is applied,
and how the wood is treated.

Thanks again for your support GWebers.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 5:26PM
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Boxerpups, It looks amazingly better than before. Way to go. You are going to love your floors. The other floors were too orange. These are beautiful!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 5:29PM
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Much, much better!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 5:34PM
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boxerpups, Yayyyyyy!! I'm so happy for you! They look just right to me. Not too dark, you can still see the grain. Just wait until they are polyed ... you're going to be so thrilled!!


    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 6:23PM
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just to say, yippeee! Those look great.

A side note: all your inspiration pics are dark floors with white walls/cabinets which highlight that contrast. The floor color will look different with red/toffee walls.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:02PM
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They look fabulous!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:07PM
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I really like the color and I'm glad you do too! That's a load off your mind!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:12PM
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Allright, now that's a beautiful floor! VERY rich and warm looking...Boxerpups, you seem like a person who cares very much about people's feelings, which is a good thing. On the other hand, I've learned not to care TOO much about the feelings of my floor guy, painter, etc. My husband has the right attitude... "so what if he looked at you funny"?

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:16PM
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Pluckymama, Pbrisjar, Erikanh, Megsy and Downsy,
Yes, I love it too. Thanks for your support. It is darker
than my inspiration pics but I think it is going to work.
Stains are not like paint. They really do have a mind of
their own. I appreicate all your kind support. I am glad I
put my foot down with them. Firm but kind.

You are right and my best friend pointed this out to
months ago. White is paired with the dark floors in
every magazine. I think the floors will look okay with the
current wall colors. I was planning on getting rid of
the red/cranberry but now it looks kinda of neat. I am
giving it a few months before I change it.
I have lots of light coming into my house during the day
so I need to study it for a while.

Yes, I am way toooooooo sensitive. You have no idea.
I am learning to be stronger. Everytime I look at my floors
I am going to remember I got what I wanted. : )

Thanks so much everyone. GW ROCKS!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 8:49PM
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Huge improvement! Great chocolate color without being too dark. Glad you were persistent!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2009 at 10:52PM
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collins design

Oh, I am so happy this turned out OK! I have been worrying about your floors over here..... so glad you achieved the look you wanted - they look fabulous!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 7:45AM
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"Everytime I look at my floors
I am going to remember I got what I wanted. : ) "

Wow! It's great that you got what you wanted, but I think it's even greater than you won a bit of a personal strength challenge too!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 10:26AM
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Right on boxerpups, amazing what the darker stain does to the rooms. Now that I see how your vision is coming together with your blend of color and texture, the combination is quite attractive. It wasn't clear to me if those room colors were final or not and hope my prior post didn't offend or imply with the comment.

Kudos to standing your ground and a great lesson for client and contractor. It may be an unplanned expense, but well worth the peace of mind moving forward. Thanks for that and will take that with me on my adventure through my project. ;)

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 10:30AM
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Congratulations!!! Your floor is stunning! Excellent job standing your ground and getting what you expected. It really looks fantastic. Enjoy it!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 10:36AM
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Boxerpup- i had the same thing in Dec. I made it clear I wanted a dark wood floor- English Chestnut. My floor guy added a little of this and a little of that color without my consent. I actually liked it better without the top coat. In any case, I was not exactly thrilled about the color-perhaps more so with his "artistic liberties"-the color was close but not exactly. When you/me- us are paying($$$) for a service/product - call me crazy I sought of think we should get what we want(fair and reasonable). For what this is worth, he did tell me it would get a bit darker and cure better with the heat turned up. So I'm here to tell you - six months later I love my floors. Your pictures are beautiful and if that is your kitchen it is to dye for. Just starting my kitchen project, so it is good to have a "support". My DH doesn't get it. Good for you!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 10:48AM
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boxerpup, what is the source of your last inspiration pic with the lighter brown floors? I really love that kitchen! Thanks.

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 11:55AM
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Hi Staceyneil, Crazyhorse6 and LiveWireOak,
Thanks I love the floors too. GW has been super for me
to find the strength.

Frank59, You are so sweet. You did not offend at all.
In fact I am still not sure the colors will stay. I
repaint often and may change the colors within the next
4 months. And any time you need support on your kitchen
remodel journey, don't hesitate to ask. GW has been the
best support ever.

I can not agree with you more about money and expectations.
For me, the floors are a little darker than I expected but
this is because the floor people had been trying to talk me
out of dark for so long. I love the floors.
Yes, worth the aggravation and money.

The picture is from a company in New Jersey. I found the
picture from the web. But you can go right to their site.
Isn't the kitchen lovely?.

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 3:08PM
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Boxerpup, Thank you! I am enjoying all the pics you post. You have posted about the support you are getting at GW through your remodel,
but you have given so much back to the community with your postings and willingness to share your pics and opinions. So glad you're here :)

    Bookmark   June 11, 2009 at 3:40PM
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Thanks for that boxerpups.

Oh, I couldn't agree more with the value of GW. Even though I was in the kitchen/bath industry for a short time years ago and understood that changes since would be inevitable, I never realized the depth of those, uh, spending an hour to make sure I'm not making a mistake with my choice in a soap dispenser( and no, I didn't forget the Never-MT!!). I believe I'm officially in the WWGWD(What Would Garden Web Do) club now and couldn't repay the $$ I've saved from this forum.

I bet that I learn one lesson each time I get on board, such as this thread has provided. Soon I'll be posting and seeking input from the talent pool exhibited on this board for sure. ;)

At least now you have the luxury of a wider color palette to choose from with those beautiful floors you wanted.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2009 at 9:03AM
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