layout questions

mothandbeeJune 9, 2013

Hello, long time lurker here! I have enjoyed checking out everyone's kitchens and would love a couple of opinions, as my husband is really over talking about it.
We are adding on 16' to our house so the kitchen will be new. The current kitchen,shown as the empty space at the bottom of the drawing, will become the dining area.

The kitchen will include a 4' pantry, 6' french doors to deck, peninsula with 15' overhang to accommodate 3 stools, prep sink, canopy range hood with chimney, and basic stainless appliances.

We live in a little 1900's bungalow that has been added on many times over the years, so I'm doing what I call a "vintage with a splash of industrial" style kitchen: white shaker cabinets, black granite, subway tile backsplash which is a classic enough combo to go a number of different styles but I want to add some modern chrome and rustic wood accents to make it a little more "me".

So far, my KD has been just ok, I had my layout in my head before I went in, so all he had to do was fill in the blanks, but really I feel like he is more mathematically inclined- just pluggin in the the numbers to see what will fit, vs what actually matters to me as a cook. He is also a little vague about things. Maybe I just want too much handholding! He doesn't break down the quote with line items.. Do most do that? Right now we are at about 9500 including granite, using basic RTA cabinets. He says that I can save a lot of money by customizing after installation instead of buying the inserts up front. I had looked at the Shenandoah cabinets at Lowes and loved all the inserts like knife drawer, sink pull outs, etc, etc but the price tag was too high.

(I cook a lot- and do a lot of from scratch prepping and have a big garden that I get a lot of my produce from).

Whew that was a lot of background info. So here are my questions.
1. I wanted to leave the back sink wall with just the window and no wall cabinets to make it feel more open, while putting the rest of the cabinets on the range wall. Originally plan had a regular wall cab ending the run, but I thought maybe a corner cabinet to end the run: I like to fot all of my baking supplies in one place so I can work quickly. This would be right over the mixer and I'm used to it since this is what I have now. Then maybe add a rustic shelf next to the corner cabinet to make it look more balanced and not just a weird ending. Would it look unbalanced to only have a shelf on one side? I have a few nice vases and crocks to put on the shelf, or a collection of milk glass vases.

Question 2. I have two stainless rails with s hooks from Ikea hanging on the wall that I use as pot rack ( top rail) and utensil/pot holder for the bottom rail. I would like to use this next to the range, but can't figure out how to integrate it into the run of wall cabinets on the range wall. First thought was over the peninsula, but can't decide if it would be too far to reach? I wanted the cabinets around the range to be symmetrical, but I don't think I have the amount of space to do it, or rather it would be a poor use of space. I currently have a little 12" cab. next to the range which I like to keep all my oils and vinegars in, so I would like to keep that.

3. Also, I wonder about the heights of the cabinets. Should they be staggered for more visual interest, or would one level look ok? My quote is for all 42" high wall cabinets.

Any other ideas would be welcomed, as I have to make some decisions in order to get things here on time.

I hope you can read my handwriting and that the pic posts in the correct direction.

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To your questions:
#1 I think it looks fine "unbalanced"
#2 What is your motivation in the pot rack? Putting the rack to the right of the last wall cab would be a stretch. You could reconsider your shelf location, however I'd personally skip the pot rack.
#3 No, I would not stagger them. What is ceiling height? Planning crown molding?

The pantry seems a bit out of place. How must have is it?
The 12" overhang to the side of the prep sink is something I would run into.

A draft render of what you have sketched to help everyone think/visualize. I didn't have time to toy with options tonight. If good suggestions roll in, can re-render.

This post was edited by seattleCraftsman on Mon, Jun 10, 13 at 1:50

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 1:15AM
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Wow, thank you ! I have been playing with it in Homestyler, but frankly it's not nearly as useful.

The motivation for the pot rack is that I have a few lovely green le Creuset pans that look nice, and that I don't have a ton of room for the larger pieces. So hanging them is a good option.

The ceiling height is 9', and it will be vaulted ( running paralell to the 16' wall). Yes to crown molding.

The pantry, or something like it, is a must have. I can and do a lot of preserving, and have 3 children so I try to buy in bulk a lot to save money. I considered putting a transom window over the door, as there will be transoms over the french doors. Why does it look out of place? I thought the placement was pretty good so that way others would be out of the way when I'm working in the kitchen.
The 12" on the end of the peninsula was supposed to go over a book case that would support one end of the 15" overhang, but I think I have found a different solution for my books. I was concerned about them getting dusty or dirty and also that there wouldn't be enough clearance between that corner and the corner of the 24" cabinet next to the fridge. So I will probably just make it flush with the peninsula.

Does anyone think any of the wall cabinets should be glass front? I have a bunch of white dishes and pottery that could go in them...I just wasn't sure which one would look the best if any.

Thanks for the draft, I loved seeing all the finishes!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 8:00AM
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the footage acoss this distance [between window wall and peninsula] is quite long.....No problem, but I think the peninsula sink will be used more for the transient person in and out for smaller brief activities as opposed to the main cook during prep.For that reason-the ability to come at this faucet/sink from the end of the peninsula as one comes into the space from points beyond, means avoid too much overhang on the end and care with faucet selection, placement and reach to make this function useful.The cabinet to the left of fridge if ordered as a microwave option[18 in deep with an open section] would fit in nicely in the overall scheme. Some open shelf for display as you describe would work at the pensinsula junction with wall as there is space unused.....the kitchen is quite large-some focus on that wall and the presence of pendant lites or more detail to the corners of the peninsula counter will add a lot.I think the amount of wall cabinets you've chosen and their dimensions demonstrates that "sweet spot" of sufficient but avoidance of wall glass doors saved.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 8:32AM
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I think the space between the window wall and peninsula is about 9'. Too far? I had originally planned on using the main sink as the prep sink, with the prep sink for helpers/visitors, but didn't want to prep with my back turned to the family and wanted to keep the prep zone separate from the clean up zone.

This brings up another question- we compost all food waste into a stainless bucket, so only trash and recyclables will go in trash bins. should this go under the prep sink (more trash generated then?) or under the main sink?

We do plan on having a couple of funky pendants over the peninsula and the microwave will go in the pantry
(we don't use it much.) Also I was considering gooseneck sconces over the sink but DH says no..

I'm thinking the espresso maker and coffee grinder as well as coffee cups can go on the 24" counter, as it is really only a landing space for the fridge aside from those uses.

thanks for input!

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 9:01AM
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For me, with new construction, i think i'd shrink the plan-nine feet is beyond generous,but not obscenely so, for that pathway.Perhaps you've got the construction costs figured out and this is all manageable....there's planning that you've done,obviously, and little is shown about your existing space.... so it's up to you if you want to offer more about the home and the project to readers here.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 9:24AM
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Yes, we already have a contract in place and they will be starting in the next 10 days.
We won't have a formal dining room any more- current DR is about 9x15 and very tight. My thoughts were that this set up would give more room for entertaining as people can sit at the peninsula and there will be room for 8 at the table if we add chairs at the ends.

I could make the pathway shorter, which would give more space to the dining area, but then the peninsula would be across from the doors and make that bottleneck to the 24" cabinets even tighte,r unless I shortened the peninsula. I didn't want to do that because I wanted seating for 3 at the bar-( 3 kids) I did consider putting a little table on castors in the center of the U, but wanted to see the space first.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 9:46AM
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I would eliminate the lazy susan on the upper right corner. You can use a cabinet with a door opening to the other side to access the blind corner, and increase the width of your drawer stacks on either side of the corner, or insert a trash pullout next to the prep sink.

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 10:41AM
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1. I would prefer you take the upper cabinet down to the counter for extra storage instead of ending the run with a diagonal cabinet - they are meant to be bookended by standard uppers and when they are not they generally look unfinished. Having a shelf on one side and not the other also does not sound so great. I would also put your DW on the other side of the sink if this will be your baking area so cleanup does not conflict with baking - this also gives you more drawers for baking. Finally, I would also make your window larger and bring it down to the counter. If you want rustic shelves, do it on both sides of the window. To accomplish this, delete the last 12" of last cabinets on the range wall (or make them a blind corner) and run shelving into the wall (or blind cabinet face).

2. I've no input for you here, sorry. I probably would not use the pot racks.

3. I would take all of the cabinetry to the ceiling. If you cannot do that bc of cost or a cathedral ceiling or whatever, I would make the uppers over the range and possibly fridge taller than the others.

As for your general layout, I would use an island instead of a peninsula. Islands provide better traffic flow and less steps for the cook when making dinner. Something like this:

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 12:37PM
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well this certainly gives me a lot to think about!
The main reason I had been working with the peninsula layout is because I often have one or two of my kids working with me in the kitchen and wanted to make sure there was enough room for everyone. I also figured that 14' wide would be too narrow for an island with seating. Do you think there would still be enough room behind?

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 6:05PM
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with this as the sole dining room,I think the peninsula plan is visually better. Having guests or family diners at any time able to peer down two aisles into almost every nook/cranny of kitchen activity is risky for your satisfaction with island plan, for long term.The peninsula provided a break and the fridge also was positioned furthur away from diners. The immediate object next to the dining set up being a fridge with cook perhaps in/out during a dinner session is not that enticing.....and a lot of stuff can be placed into your pantry with door shut which at times i think you will appreciate. I think if you are embracing the sq footage/the costs, there is a pretty good balance in your peninsula plan....

    Bookmark   June 10, 2013 at 6:21PM
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I'm glad you like it. Personally my first few layout threads on GW where a G shape kitchen like you posted and I got some nice comments. However, no one pointed out that I had room for the island and I'm lucky that it came to me (my eureka moments are few and far between lol). So, I try to point it out for others that do have the room just in case they like it. Some people say islands are trendy, but if you truly have room, you can't beat them for the dual benefits of workspace and traffic flow.

I think the island kitchen would be better for multiple cooks than the peninsula because of the traffic flow issue. The only point of contention is that someone prepping at the cleanup sink - which would be Kid#2 because it's the tertiary cleanup area - would have to walk by people at the island to get to the fridge. I don't consider that a big deal with a 48" aisle. Technically with both layouts you have 4 potential prep areas - ether side of prep sink, and either side of cleanup sink.

If you prefer, move the prep sink towards the center of the island a bit more, but as it is it can be accessed by the left and bottom sides of the island anyway.

As for room: My kitchen is 12'7" left to right, and I have the exact same setup (minus any pantry cabinets) and slightly narrower aisle widths - it's perfect, believe me. I also have my DR in the same spot yours will be and I find it very nice.

Here is the math on it :)
14' = 168"
-25.5" for perimeter cabinets (24" cabinets plus 1.5" standard overhang)
-48" aisle between range and island (recommended minimum width for multiple cooks) [mine is 47"]
-40.5" island (1.5" overhang, 24" cabinets, 15" seating overhang)
-12" pantry cabinetry (or 15" if you want to squeeze the aisles)
=42" left for the aisle between island and french doors. This is a bit tight but it's only this narrow where the pantry and island line up - then it's 54" between the island and french doors, which is where at least the majority of traffic will be passing (recommended minimum is 44") [my seating aisle also has doors behind it, and is 48"]

PS: I made your cleanup sink aisle 48" but mine is 36" since there's not so much going on up there. I had it at 42" actually then pulled my freestanding island in closer after a month or so. You may consider if you want to shrink that aisle and add the inches to the island.

    Bookmark   June 11, 2013 at 10:00AM
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Well, hubs has vetoed the island plan, much for the same reasons that herbflavor mentioned, and I guess I agree with him.
Since we are having a combined dining area, we agreed that we want the dining area to feel like it's own space, and the peninsula layout does that more than the island layout does. Plus, I originally planned the peninsula as something of a barrier to keep folks out of the way but near by while cooking, and I wanted to be able to use it as a buffet as well.
So I think I will stick with my original plan- still have to come to some decisions about the wall cabinets.
I do want to move the DW to the left, but there was some talk about the window being centered in the wall or something so I will have to discuss it with the GC.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2013 at 11:25AM
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