On The Wall of Death

EAM44June 11, 2012

Hello All.

In previous postings I referred to the red walls below (vertical is support, horizontal is services), as the wall where ideas go to die. Yesterday I started singing this Richard Thompson song while working on my layout. For those of you who haven't heard it, the link below will take you to YouTube.


Now let me take my chances on the wall of death... And do let me know if it's an improvement over the Ridiculous/sublime post, or just more of the ridiculous.

I indented the cooking area to give me the option of outside venting, and to protect the cook (moi) from the hoards of nieces and nephews that seem to love running the circuit from kitchen to DR to LR to hall to kitchen to DR to...well...you get it. The idea of a prep sink is a dream - probably not in the budget. Thanks for your input. E

Here is a link that might be useful: Ridiculous/sublime

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You haven't posted the figure!

    Bookmark   June 11, 2012 at 7:29PM
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It was there in the preview. Oh well, here it is again. Maybe.

    Bookmark   June 11, 2012 at 9:15PM
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Yup, it came through this time!

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 12:23AM
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This layout doesn't work for me, sorry! Working at either sink, you have to go around a corner to get to the stove.

I think bmorepanic's design from the last thread works much better.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 10:01AM
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There's 12" between cooktop and sink. Bad, methinks.
Go with bmorepanic's layout. It's good!
Pay for the plumbing!
You NEED to get the layout right.

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:07AM
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Hi, EAM. That happy, noisy circuit sounds like something worth preserving. And you don't want to spend money to move the sink.

Otherwise, I'm very unclear on what you have that you really want to preserve and how you really wish to use these spaces. Do you cook a lot? Where do the kids settle together when they do? The grownups? Who do you want to use that porch space and for what? Do you want to draw people to the kitchen to chat with you as you work? Or just kids to eat there to keep the mess concentrated?

So far, I honestly haven't felt any of your layouts for the working area are up to conventional standards, considering all the space you have. It's important to see these things from the owner's eyes since their preferences are the only ones that count, but you haven't insisted on how much you love being able to jog from one counter to another or having tiny counters that discourage creating big cooking messes and wipe off in a twinkle. There are some missing pieces to this picture. :)

Now, your layouts are all floating in the middle of the space. Big question: Is this because of plumbing, or: Is maintaining a direct traffic lane from DRM to that former porch area something valuable that you really want to keep? Do you just love the airiness not working by a wall? Just a floating-type person?

Is it also simply that you really just want a new-looking kitchen there, with most money put into what makes you happy to look at? That at this point you really do prefer to sacrifice function in return for putting off whatever problems addressing the plumbing might bring? That IS a reasonable goal to work for IF it's what you want and feel you'll be happy with in future. Knowing that would make a world of difference in what ideas to offer.

FWIW, of the ones so far, I guess I prefer the "simple beauty" of perhaps the June 8 one. (Someone just the other day mentioned using 1" of vertical space under her counter for a 36" pullout cutting board, and maybe you could add that to the your left as you stand at the stove for when needed.) Still, if you want to float, there may be other ways to go. Can we float out into the porch area? Depending on how that space is to be used, why automatically assume a floating work area has to be oriented to the (rather distant) basement wall? What direction would you like to look as you work?

If you do want to create a very well functioning permanent kitchen, though, it's really seeming not so much a "wall of death" as a "sink of death." Incorporating the wall functionally and attractively is doable, it's trying to design everything around your red dot that's the problem. (Floating's presenting a significant issue too, but if that's critical to a great kitchen for you, then it has to be--unlike the sink).

BTW, from what you say, I don't believe a $2K bill for moving a drain sounds right, not if it's in a crawl space or basement. If the drain itself is in poured concrete, then don't move it, cap it off and run the line to the nearest drain pipe that is in the crawl space. Have you gotten more bids yet, and I missed them?

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 11:23AM
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I agree with rosie on the sink movement. It really does need to move and 2K sounds too high for this work. With your plan, if you just move the sink bank to the right wall, the layout would be OK...you would have a large central island with cooking zone, a washup zone with garbage and DW and a fridge/oven wall with appropriate 'put something down' counter space near by. And the sink would only move 42 inches instead of across the kitchen - that might be easier?

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 2:00PM
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It's hard to know when you're right, but boy is it clear when your wrong! All of you hate this version, so living with it would probably suck.

raenjapan, you are right about the corners. I tried to mitigate this by having the sink back up to the stove. It's a 12" reach. But it's still awkward.

pawa, I was hoping to be able to get the layout without doing the plumbing, but if it can't be done, it can't be done.

Caspian101, I'll try this in my next attempt.

rosie, I do love the happy, noisy circuit, and the chaos makers that invented it (all seven of them).

The items I was hoping not to move are two vertical support walls (wall to FR, and vertical part of the red "corner" aka the wall of death, in the center of the diagram), one service wall (horizontal part of the wall of death), and the sink drain, all in red.

You have been able to identify the drain as the problem. I wasn't able to see that. I have appointments for two more estimates, but no info yet.

I'm interested in functionality, although I clearly lack the experience to design for it. I cook a lot, everyone piles into the kitchen when I do, and I can't move. I'd love a place for siblings to sit in the kitchen when I'm cooking, for nieces and nephews to help bake cookies, hence my fondness for peninsula seating that I've been chastised for several times already.

I was planning to just upgrade to gas, replace the base cabinets, and keep the original layout, but there were so many things about the set up that I don't like, it seemed a shame to keep it. Then one of you posted a link to a kitchen that incorporated a wall into the island, and I thought I'd try that.

I appreciate the input and will keep working on it. E

    Bookmark   June 12, 2012 at 6:13PM
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