Naked, legged, or maybe corbelled??

breezygirlJune 21, 2011

My island is different as y'all know.

The poor stool overhang end (shown on the top right end of the island in the drawing) of it has gotten neglected with my focus being on the banquette end.

On the end of the overhang where it joins the banquette, I will have a paneled pony wall to create some definition between banquette and overhang and also to provide some support for the overhang. Similar to this one:

NOW, what do I do with the other end of the overhang? The width of the overhang has shrunk down to 48" wide with building the pony wall. 48" is just enough width for 2 stools. I do not have the space to put a wall on the other end to create symmetry.

I see 3 options. Pros and cons listed.

1. Naked

Con: might look like I forgot to do something on the end, like it's floating

Pro: does not interfere with stools or legs, gives breathing room

2. Leg

Con: interference with leg and stool room

Pro: corner looks supported and finished

I love, love, love this leg and this kitchen. The lines are so simple. BUT I won't have an apron spanning under the countertop like this shows.

If I put a leg on, it would be stuck out at the overhang corner like this one, but the overhang here is larger than mine.

3. Corbel or two

Con: I don't really like this look

Pro: gives the overhang some support without looking naked

Naked seems like the way to go, but I just love that leg. Thoughts?

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natal

If you don't need the support and don't like corbels my vote would be naked. I think you'll live to regret legs.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 5:56PM
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lavender_lass

Breezy- If there's not room for a pony wall, are you sure there's room for a leg?

I like the open look, since it gives you the breathing room, as you say. I wouldn't do the corbell, unless you need the extra support. Will either of these work, with your stone? I don't know how much weight you'll be supporting, but it looks like you have an 18" overhang.

Have you already built the island? Could you steal a few inches from each side aisle (44" and 45") and maybe make them each 42"? That would give you an extra 5"...plenty of room for the leg and additional support.

Let us know what you decide...and post more pictures :)

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 6:17PM
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davidro1

what heights are the bench, the table, and the counter? In the config I see, I think people seated at a bench can see up between the legs of someone seated on a stool, even with a separation panel. On the open side, you may want a diagonal support (corbel).

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 6:29PM
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breezygirl

Natal--I think I'd live to regret the legs also, even though I just love them. I had the extra room before I decided to build that pony wall.

LL--Exactly. There's not really enough room for a leg either. I just like it, darn it! The leg wouldn't take up as much room, but it's still a space killer. The aisles on either side already seem tight enough. Oh well.

David--The counter will be standard 36". Bench will be 17-18". Table will be about 30". I can't figure out how anyone could look up a skirt with those dimensions and a wall between the two areas. But, I'm a girl so I don't usually practice that kinda thing.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 6:39PM
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celineike

my thoughts...
Naked screams bumped head magnet..
single leg, could totally work- no apron needed, i think. (we have this look in our mudroom)
i dont like corbels either :o(

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 6:52PM
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davidro1

People seem to like "thick" countertop material, so a slightly thicker support beam could be a corbel, and it wouldn't look like a diagonal support. It would be a little beam.

It's a cute new idea to have a bench facing out and a stool facing in. The stool person is higher than the bench person. Anyone seated on a stool could have their foot on a rung and be an easy "match" to someone else who is handy seated on the bench inches away. I'm just saying. The groin, the hand, the few inches of separation, and the moment. You don't need to be double jointed; you just need to swivel on the stool, to the left, and he's home-free. So make the counter 1/2" lower, the stools an inch lower, and the bench 2" higher and the table 3" inches higher. You could even make a small piece of the overhang into an armrest, extending farther out to meet the table.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 7:14PM
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cheri127

We put a panel at the end of our peninsula because it looked much nicer and finished however, it really doesn't function well. The seating space is so much smaller because of the two closed ends. I vote naked.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 9:10PM
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doggonegardener

I vote for naked. I like the clean look. I think the leg will be a cleaning issue. I don't like the look as much. It'll reduce space and I forsee people wanting to "swing" out of the last seat and clipping the leg as they try.

Just my .02

Ne

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 10:34PM
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blfenton

Practicality-wise I would say to leave it naked. But I can very easily envision a solid leg in your place or a leg with the bottom that mimics your wall or crown molding. Just one of those little finishing touches. No, to the corbel as I don't think you have the right set-up for those.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 10:45PM
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ZacsDaddy

Naked. I think the overhang will look great floating given the short-ish size. If the overhang was longer, I'd definitely vote for the legs -- but it may make it feel too heavy in this case. This is one of those cases where less is more and editing out the legs will prove the best.

You're doing a great job -- and I love watching your thought process through your design.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2011 at 11:26PM
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aliris19

I'm worried about someone leaning on the naked edge; kid, friend at a party -- I'm worried it will be unsupported and twist. And I don't think the leg looks our of place or squashing; to me the extra security it implies spells more comfort.

I think the pictured leg above looks a little funny because the baseboard is so large on it. I think the leg can be fashioned to look more svelte, more in keeping with the environment. It just feels safer to me.

I don't know what the support guidelines would be on a corner like that. The overhang numbers wouldn't work as they imply for a straight overhang ... I think.

Sorry, Breezy - that little one will grow up soon and be jumping on the coutnertops. I vote for #1, tastefully and lightly.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 1:08AM
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breezygirl

Celine--Bumped head magnet certainly, but I don't think it would get that much better with a leg. Or would it?

David--I'm not getting the kind of beam you mean. As far as the peek-a-boo view up a skirt, I guess I'd say wearer beware. My island cabs and end panels have been made already. Besides, I live in a colder climate where we just finally today had some actual warm sunshine. We don't wear shorts or mini skirts around here often. ;)

Cheri--Exactly why I think even a leg support, while thinner than a paneled wall, still takes up too much leg room for the stools.

Ne--I see that open corner like you, a way to get in and out easier.

Blfenton--Those are my thoughts also. Naked for practicality, but leg for the look. Does the leg seem like I'm trying to do too much similar to how the doorless uppers felt?

Zacsdaddy--(Whenever I see your name, a vision of your cute little Zac pops into my head.) Your post reminded me that I was going to mock this up to see how to looks and feels. 48" sounds like a lot on paper, but it's not very much IRL. Thanks for the compliment! I feel like I'm drowning in a shark tank so your words help. And I'm glad I'm not coming across as too annoying with my questions.

Aliris--I'm going to swing by my stone fabricator's office tomorrow so put a deposit down on my Carrara and limestone (for the MBathroom) so I'll ask about the hidden supports for that much overhang. Freedom brackets, I think they're called.

SOOOO.....I showed DH the pics, pros/cons. He strongly votes for the leg. He thinks, like Celine, that everyone will be running into the naked version constantly because they won't be able to see the corner. Huh? I tried to explain the spacing issues, but with the tension already between us I let it go for tonight.

I'm irked because I've been waiting for my plumber to come back to finish his MBA rough-in. He finally met with DH tonight at the house and tells him that he now doesn't want to install my tile pan like he was supposed to and says to get my tiler to do it. My what??? Tiler? That was slated to be on my brain many weeks from now when I got to the point of needing tile. Now I have to drop everything and start interviewing tilers, who will probably be like the insulation and drywall subs who never call me back, never show up to appointments when they're supposed, and take 10 days to get a bid to me. Sounds to me like another 2-3 week delay. Meanwhile, my base cabs will be ready for install on July 2, but because we're nowhere near ready for them we'll have to store them. JEEEEEEZZZZZ!! Sorry. I'm done.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 3:16AM
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blfenton

No, the leg is not like the doorless uppers. (IMHO) You can very easily, visually put one in. Just watch your proportions and scale when designing it.

I understand where your DH is coming from - the leg will bring eye-spatial attention to the corner (not glaring here I am attention) so that little heads and taller hips won't be smacking into it. Does that make sense?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 11:21AM
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davidro1

hidden support,
bracket,
L,
whatever it's called,
in any shape,
1/2" thick or more.

Because it's an overhang, and it's a corner. The goal is to make it stronger (so it won't crack). Any typical adolescent will one day press down on it. A small child will hang from it. You can tell them several times that this corner is the weakest spot and you don't want to see it being stress-tested.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 11:29AM
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breezygirl

Thanks. For the leg style, I was thinking of one like in the first leg photo I posted above. Very, very simple and not wide. I love some of the bigger, more detailed legs, but they don't suit my kitchen.

Yes, your description of the attention catching-ness of the leg makes sense. I understand it more today when my frustration over the plumber/tiler issue has settled. DH just got caught in the middle of delivering the message to me when I didn't want to hear it.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 11:30AM
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alabamamommy

Breezy, I adore the paneled look without the leg. It feels very finished because of the panel detail. Just my .02 - you'll do the right thing!

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 11:32AM
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davidro1

i'll add that nobody needs to have a leg under the corner for any reason. Your DH is overthinking. Later, he will agree that anyone can see a countertop and "know" the corner is where it is. Your corner can be rounded if you don't want it to be too square, i.e. too sharp cornered.

Little ones' heads may find a way to smack into anything and everything along the way to learning how to see things and not develop into a habitual accident prone person. SO.... even a leg will be an accident waiting to happen, for some little one at some point in their development.

I think a leg is an accident waiting to happen for adults too. Someone will trip on it, one day.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 11:57AM
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celineike

wow Breeze - you've certainly got your hands full! I really feel for you. Being your own contractor can be tough when you dont even have the team of (known quality) subs to just call when you need them.
When i watch my GC at work, i am in awe of the balls she juggles (ha! pun!) and the timeliness she can make things happen.

Keep up the amazing work - you are so close!

And yes, i still think the naked corner (looks best probably?) but beckons heads, cause you just cant see where in space it is when you are at that height. the leg would give it some presence.

Well, now come to think of it, our old island had 2 naked corners (12" overhangs) with no bumped heads ever..huh... i always kept those silly spongey babyproof corner protectors on them though.
i dunno - something to think on i guess

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 12:00PM
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breezygirl

David--we posted at the same time. I'll check on the supports. I absolutely don't want ta weak corner.

Alabama--I like the look too. If only I had another foot in length for the stools.

Celine--I do feel close....on occasion. Then something like last night happens. No flooring, no doors, no drywall..... I know DH will want the child-proof corner protectors on many new corners in the kitchen. My poor marble! :(

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 3:23PM
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remodelfla

We used hidden supports from Federal Brace. The hold up our soapstone overhang with no issues. It's where we eat and lean on for every meal.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 3:41PM
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breezygirl

Yep, remodelfla. That's it. How deep is your overhang? I think it's similar to what I'm planning.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 5:21PM
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lavender_lass

Breezy- I think your DH is thinking about the island like this...the stools will keep anyone from running into an unseen corner. Not having the leg will give you more room for people to sit, too. Sounds like it's all going to work out to be just fine. Don't worry, you're doing a great job with your remodel :)

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 5:41PM
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breezygirl

LL--you make an excellent point about the stools providing that "stop" for the eye like a leg would. The stools will always be there and take up so much visual space. What a simple point to have overlooked! Thanks!

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 5:54PM
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remodelfla

Geesh... that marble is gorgeous! If I remember correctly, my overhang is 13 1/2"... maybe 14. It's all we could eek out of the slab in depth since the wall below used to be structural (outside wall) and is 11" deep.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 6:56PM
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slush1422

So are ya going naked? Seems you are leaning towards that direction? I know you commented on my post about our 15" overhang extra supports. DH was just about to order the supports from CounterBalance when he Googled them just to see, and found them at Specialtytools.com for less and it saved us about $75. Just wanted to let you know in case you were looking at that system. I have 3 kids and even though DH calls our soon to be mitered corners "brain biters" I wasn't too worried knowing that the stools will be there.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2011 at 7:38PM
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breezygirl

I think I will go naked. I didn't get to my fabricator's today so I'll ask her opinion based on her experience tomorrow if I get over there. Unless she sees a problem with the overhang or figures out a way to put in a leg, I'll go naked.

The island top could end up being wood. I'm strongly leaning towards that. If so, I'll have to figure out the install myself as my stone fabricator won't, of course, do it. She strongly discourages me from a wood top in fact. Your bracket info might come in handy. Thanks! And I love DH's description of the corners. I'm gonna use that one!

    Bookmark   June 23, 2011 at 1:42AM
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cloud_swift

Just chiming in about the head bumping issue - our old kitchen island had no legs and our family grew up here with out any head bumping issues. It even had relatively square corners. Our new island hasn't caused any head (for our grand children) or middle (for adults) bumping issues either. We did round the corners on that - partly for looks and partly because we were going a few inches farther back so people might be tempted to cut the corner when heading around it.

Ours is naked - no legs and no corbels, supported by flat steel bars set into the plywood subtop.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2011 at 2:51AM
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