kitchen layout

kiralizJune 21, 2013

I am brand new to this forum (well, I lurked quite a bit), and brand new to renovations of any kind. DH and I are gutting and remodeling our kitchen with the help of a design/build place (no DIY for us!). I'm posting our plan and am very open and thankful for any advice.

The overall floorplan.

A close up of the kitchen floorplan.


Some changes we made that are not shown: the double oven is now a single oven/convection micro combo and the space where the micro is is a full upper.

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Quick first impressions - do you have a range hood? That's a priority.

And you don't want island seating next to your cooktop. Better to swap the cooktop and the sink, so you can more easily vent, and sit at the island.

Do you have to have so many doors into the kitchen? The one at the top - where does that go?

The trash is far away from everything - would be more useful next to the sink.

What is the layout like now? I see where you've indicated that some things are existing. It might be helpful to see what you have to work with.

    Bookmark   June 21, 2013 at 5:22PM
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We will have a pop up downdraft. It's not what I would prefer (by a long shot) but we have vaulted ceilings and I couldn't figure out a way to make a vent hood aesthetically pleasing.

The doors. Sigh. Going clockwise they lead to: dining room (closing off this one), pantry/utility, garage, master bedroom. No feasible way to get rid of any of them.

Here is what we are working with. Possibly one of the most awkward kitchen layouts ever :) Sorry, it's a picture of plan, I don't have a digital copy of this.

Edited for grammar.

This post was edited by kiraliz on Sat, Jun 22, 13 at 10:19

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 10:16AM
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Sophie Wheeler

Swap the sink and cooktop. Or get rid of the seating at the island and put in an overhead vent. Downdrafts and gas aren't good bedfellows. If the fan is strong enough to pull the smoke, steam, and grease away, it's strong enough to pull out the flame. Induction would be better than gas if the downdraft is a must here, but it will still be inadequate in the ventilation department.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 10:43AM
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A beverage station placed away from an ice, water, refrigeration source does not make sense to me. Also, you have your trash away from most cooking prep activities. I second the notion of swapping the sink and cooking runs. I hope you plan more support for your overhang then the two legs. It's a process and you're asking the right questions.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 11:32AM
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I agree that the garbage and sink need to be closer to each other. I just did a kitchen in my new home and the overhang on the island is 14". I am looking at it now and think an extra 4" might seem like it was floating out a bit too much. Have you looked at any islands that are similar size to yours with that an overhang to see how you like the scale?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 11:48AM
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The beverage station is not really that. I think the kitchen designer put that in to make it sound fancy. The upper will have glass doors and house wine glasses and coffee mugs, and I'll probably put my coffee maker on that counter. That's the extent of that.

Re: the overhang, is that not enough support because of the width of the island?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 11:48AM
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The trash next to the sink is a great idea, thanks everyone!

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 12:05PM
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Here is some really good info from an older thread. For a span as long as yours you absolutely need support in the middle.

"Hopefully this will help future readers looking for answers. The post by Buehl is all over the conditions of needing support as recommended by the MIA (Marble Institute of America).
This is for "Single-Level" counters with cantilever overhang:
For 3cm stone: any overhang over 10" will need additional support; spaced every 36" or less.
For 2cm stone: any overhang over 6" will need additional support; spaced every 24" or less.
For "single-level", the goal is to support the cantilever. We do this with CONCEALED SUPPORT. Single-level concealed supports use the mass of the supported material to "reach out" and support the un-supported material.
"Raised Bar" support is of a completely different breed. Unlike "single-level" support, "raised bar" supports support the whole darn top. (Gosh, I need to write an article explaining all of this stuff!) There is a rule called the "2/3rds Rule" which says that in dealing with overhang, that 1/3rds overhang much be supported by 2/3rds of the width of the overhang. (Example: a 36" wide counter should have 24"(2/3rds) of support (cabinetry) with 12"(1/3rds) overhang.) Raised bars blow this rule out of the water so we have to look at it differently. ALL RAISED BAR COUNTERS NEED SUPPORT! We use "SB" support to support raised bar overhang up to 12" and "SBS" supports to support anything over 12" and up to 18" overhang. We Do Not recommend overhang over 18" on either "single-level" or "raised bar" counters.

Let me address Rodding. The process of grooving the bottom of the material and epoxying in steel rod is an acceptable practice in suring up weak areas of material (such as in front of and behind sink or cooktop cut-outs or even fissure veins) but is NEVER an acceptable method of supporting cantilever overhang (I know this is going to ruffle feathers of some fabricators) but let me repeat "NEVER". The fact is that, as a method of overhang support, it actually weakens overhanging material. You will not find this recommended by the MIA as an acceptable overhang support method."

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 12:19PM
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remodelfla: Great info, thanks! I had seen the depth specs but never the width specs. I will definitely have to talk more with the fabricator of the counters on this. I hope a pony wall will work because I do not want another leg if I can help it.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 1:12PM
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Swap the cooktop with the sink and then make your island into an island/table with posts and stretcher bars between them to support the stone. As it is, you'll spend a lot of time with your back to everyone in the kitchen because you'll be prepping next to the sink. Right in the middle of the cleanup zone. The workflow goes from storage (fridge) to water (sink) to prep (right beside the sink). Cooking only takes up 10% of your time spent in the kitchen. Prep takes the lion's share, at 70%. I wouldn't want to be facing the wall away from all of the action 90% of the time I was in the kitchen. (The 70% prep, and the 20% cooking time.) Plus, as mentioned, your prep and cleanup zones are on top of each other, so you couldn't have one person chopping veggies while another loaded in previously dirtied prep items into the DW.

What I'd really like to see though, is that door on the wall oven wall shift down so that the cabinets could be consolidated into one run, and put the clean up sink there. Then, with the cooking zone on the back wall, that would leave the island (with a small prep sink) as a large space to spread out your prep and have many people participate in it. That would be the most functional layout in this space.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 1:39PM
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You don't need a pony wall. You can use hidden support braces like the Freedom brace from federal brace. We used them

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 1:53PM
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I will definitely look into the Freedom Braces.

GreenDesigns: as mentioned, I can't move any doors. That door goes to the garage and if I moved it to the right, it would go into the master bedroom instead.

It's unfortunate, but it is what it is. I am aware this space is super awkward, after living here for 5 years ;)

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 2:02PM
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