Wolf porcelain chipping issue - just ovens or ranges too? x-post

seosmpJune 7, 2013

[I posted this on the Appliances forum too, but thought I might get more replies here.]

Hi!
I posted about Wolf ranges the other day and got some really great replies - thanks for those!

I was reading on here about porcelain chipping in some Wolf ovens. I'm wondering if that issue exists in the Wolf dual-fuel ranges as well, or just the wall ovens?

I'm still debating on what cooking appliances to get -- the Wolf dual fuel is so expensive, I'm having a hard time swallowing the cost (although I will consider splurging), but if it has an issue with the porcelain, I think I'd be pretty upset after spending so much $$ on it.

Thanks!

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ctlady_gw

I don't know about the ranges but we are on our third (yes THIRD) set of Wolf wall ovens, due to chipping of the blue enamel coating. My opinion (Wolf keeps telling me I am "in the minority" but in the next breath, the representative tells me my photos of the damage "are a lot better than some we get" SOOO.... I believe the problem is with the design of the wall ovens, and the proximity of the heating element (which is enclosed) to the enamel base of the oven. Our problems all developed after running a few (as in maybe three?) self-cleaning cycles, the chipping/blistering was always in the same three precise spots (on both oven floors) and I would assume those are points where supports or something else in the design brings the heat during self-clean into close contact with the enamel. After the original set did this, Wolf conceded the problems but said they had changed suppliers for the enamel (after apparently "experimenting" with a different formulation). When the second ones did it, the service guy suggested I not use the self-clean cycle (huh??). I must say, I now use my ovens as little as possible, and would never, ever purchase them again. Having said that, I cannot speak to the oven in the Wolf range, although I believe it has the same blue enamel finish.

Hope this helps.

    Bookmark   June 7, 2013 at 2:58PM
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wekick

I have a DF with the same problem but I only noticed after 4 years as I don't use it as much and it doesn't get dirty as often so doesn't require cleaning so i didn't see it.
How long have you had your ovens and when were they replaced?

    Bookmark   August 13, 2013 at 11:31PM
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kitchendetective

Does the chipped enamel create a health or safety issue? I have heard of chipped enamel on many brands of ovens.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2013 at 9:52AM
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eve72

It seems when you buy these "high end" high price units, they have more quality issues than the mass market appliances. Look at the appliance forum and every single high end brand has nothing but trouble.

    Bookmark   August 14, 2013 at 10:33AM
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karen.ohio

Maybe because we have spent so much money on our dream appliances that we need to fix them rather than toss them very time they break down. :-)

Karen

    Bookmark   August 14, 2013 at 2:15PM
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wekick

" Posted by kitchendetective
Does the chipped enamel create a health or safety issue? I have heard of chipped enamel on many brands of ovens."

When it starts crazing, with the expansion and contraction of the metal with heating and cooling the enamel comes off in tiny shards. the main health issue would be either inhaling or ingesting these shards. This would be worse with a convection fan blowing around.
One person got the shards in their hand.

" Posted by eve72
It seems when you buy these "high end" high price units, they have more quality issues than the mass market appliances. Look at the appliance forum and every single high end brand has nothing but trouble."
There is plenty of trouble to go around low and high end. There might be a little higher expectations for the high end as it should be. There is more chatter about the high end as well over there, but I would not say they are nothing but trouble.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 12:49AM
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deeageaux

It seems when you buy these "high end" high price units, they have more quality issues than the mass market appliances. Look at the appliance forum and every single high end brand has nothing but trouble.

According to JD Power 2013 Kitchen Appliance Study

"Kenmore Elite (819) ranks highest in customer satisfaction with ranges, cooktops, and ovens for a second straight year. The brand performs particularly well in ease of use; performance and reliability; and features. Following in the rankings are Wolf (810) and Samsung (808)."

In previous years they would publish a lot of the particulars now it seems you have to buy the study from JD Power to see the all the individual categories and rankings.

Companies like Capital and Bluestar have too few sales to yield a statistically significant data sample.

BTW It is starting PMO to have to defend Wolf. LOL

Anyways I have a suite of high end appliances for one year with no problems(knocking on wood).

Here is a link that might be useful: JD Power

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 4:59AM
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wekick

If you would have asked me in March, I loved my Wolf range too. It still functions extremely well but I just cant use the oven anymore.

How far out is JD Powers asking about satisfaction? After a year or two or more? Wolf is claiming DECADES of service. It is one thing to be happy after a few months and another to be happy after 5 or 10 years. The long term is harder to find out about.

I used to work for a place that got a JD Power award and in our particular case, nothing to do with appliances, it really didn't mean much except it was something to advertise. There were others that provided services that were more extensive and higher level of technology in some cases and they didn't have the award. Satisfaction awards are often perception than reality. If you notice in many service companies customers are asked to leave a 5 star rating or coached by the service provider to ratings companies.
The 2012 JD Powers survey has Viking right behind Wolf. That alone should speak volumes about the quality of the survey.
JD Powers They don't even indicate how their ratings are obtained for these appliances or what questions were asked.

I have talked to some people in various aspects of the appliance business that think it is under reported because there are people that just pay to have the liner replaced and don't consider it a problem, some people never see chipping or if they see it just don't do anything about it and there are many people who never use their appliances. My son is a plumber in a lot of homes and confirms that last one. He always asks owners about their appliances, especially high end.

But none of that matters to me. One reason I bought Wolf WAS the way they treated their customers in the past based on others experiences. There are many accounts of this on the appliance forum. The way they treated me is a change. I have benefited and learned from what others post I am posting my experience as well. Take it for what it is -one person's experience. There are plenty of people that will buy it anyway.

It is interesting Dee that you feel you have to defend Wolf.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 12:21PM
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SparklingWater

"BTW It is starting PMO to have to defend Wolf"

deeageaux: what does "PMO" mean? MO usually means "modus operandi", but I can't figure out the "P" if that is the "MO". probably means something much simpler, right.

Still, Wolf should step it up on helping with this problem.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 12:50PM
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deeageaux

JD Power ask people who have owned said appliances 1-3 years. That is plenty of time to use self-clean feature. If a large percentage where getting chipping then they would not be very satisfied with their range/oven.

After three years JD thinks there are too many variables.

In other industries, like automobiles, they do long term dependability studies which focus on cars owned 3-10 years. These are far more expensive to conduct with far more questions but I have not seen JD do a long term dependability study for kitchen appliances.

SparklingWater,

Just tongue in cheek meaning getting annoyed.

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 1:22PM
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wekick

"JD Power ask people who have owned said appliances 1-3 years."

Can you provide a link for that. I could not find anything about that and was trying to understand how they came up with the ratings. If that is correct are you then looking at a third of the responders at one year, a third at two years and a third at three years or what?.

Dee, do you think that chipping in four years is acceptable?

Here is a link that might be useful: JD Powers Kitchen Appliance Satisfaction Study

    Bookmark   August 15, 2013 at 5:35PM
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wekick

This is a link to a thread that also references the JD Powers appliance satisfaction survey. I was curious about how JD Power did their survey and posted about it there if anyone else wants to know about it. Respondents to the survey have only had their appliances for 24 mos or less.

Here is a link that might be useful: Single electric oven

    Bookmark   August 18, 2013 at 1:20PM
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