Kitchen Layout - need help

confusedcam7June 22, 2013

I must have changed kitchen layouts now at least 100 times. I have two now and want to decide between the two. This is layout 1; it has a very large work triangle but I believe it will work.

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Layout 2 has a prep sink in the island and the refrigerator and pantry have been swapped so I get a slightly large island. Let me know what you think; should I go with layout 1 or 2?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 1:47PM
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Cam, Honestly, I do not think either of these plans are the best one for your kitchen. Hopefully others who are more experts at kitchen design will come along and give you some advice.

I see you are new here, so I am going to give you a couple of links for information to read. Within those posts are links to more information, depending on what you are searching for. Get started there while you are waiting for responses to your post . . .

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 2:14PM
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Also, set up your email so you can receive responses to your thread . . .
Getting emails sent to you, a 3 step process

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 2:16PM
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I don't know where your openings go but - what about, in layout #1 switching the fridge and the pantry on the right wall (just to the right of the cooktop.)
Also consider then putting that pantry next to the current one on the bottom wall and putting your double ovens where the fridge currently is located. Then you can make the left side of the kitchen a baking center with a water source and close to the clean-up area.

You could still put the sink in the island if you wanted to. I think it may actually improve prep space for multiple cooks. In layout #1 you could have someone prepping in the corner and using the clean-up sink as a water source and you could also have someone on the island prepping. It would work well for company and/or family dinners.

If you do move the prep sink to the island consider putting a pull-out trash there as well. You don;t have to but just a consideration.

I definitely don't like the fridge location in layout #2.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 2:22PM
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need more info, but I would clear the lower oven wall. rotate the island 90 degrees with seated individuals facing range and probably some additional seats added to island. The island would be enlarged and the ovens would be under counter in the island or elsewhere.Other storage can be incorporated into a much larger island once the lower wall is free of cabinets.There is too much flanking the walls. Do some editing.

    Bookmark   June 22, 2013 at 8:24PM
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I would create a "walk in" pantry on the wall where you currently have the wall ovens. Then move the wall ovens to same wall as the cooktop.
I like the idea of under counter ovens, but I would have a hard time using them.

My preference would be having the DW between the cooktop and sink, or have a second DW there. There are only two of us, but if I am doing a lot of cooking, I can run the DW three times a day. Many newer DWs take 90 minutes to run, and then another hour to dry; so while the DW is in use, dirty dishes pile up. It is one of those things that bug me.

+ on Herb's island idea.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 8:52AM
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Leave the DW where it is. In the best layouts, the DW is on the opposite side of the sink from the Prep Zone...and out of the Prep Zone all together.

Layout 2 is least in my opinion. The island is a "barrier" island b/w the refrigerator and the Prep Zones (1) on the other side of the island or (2) to the right of the main sink.

Layout 1...I don't have much time right now, but I would consolidate the pantries into one location so you're not running back and forth b/w them and to make it easier to put groceries away.

Unless you're planning a separate Baking Zone with water, etc., I would also move the oven stack closer to the Prep Zone and cooktop. In addition, with only 48" b/w the island and ovens, it's a safety hazard to have seating there.

I strongly recommend moving the refrigerator closer to the Prep and Cooking Zones.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 10:32AM
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Well, without any additional info, here's a visual of some of the above plus my own suggestion for fridge and pantry.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 11:07AM
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Nice job Williamsem ! Love where you put the pantry.

Buehl - I like having my DW under where I prep. I can just open it up an drop stuff in it while I'm working and not have stuff drip all over the place.However, my space and plumbing options are more limited than the OP.

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 12:52PM
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Consider how you use your microwave. I would rather have it near the areas where I am cooking and baking, but some folks want it away from that area so they won't be bothered by folks who are snacking, etc. Either way, it is a good idea to have it a relatively short and straight run to where you will be eating anything heated in the micro. With that possible change, I think Williamsen's drawing shows a much better work flow. Your food storage is together, your cooking is together, the cleanup is together and your prep sink supports a separate use -- for prep at the island, draining water from the cooktop if the main sink is busy (or just being more direct) and washing hands when cooking or baking.

Are you combining two rooms to get a larger space? You have a very large space, but nothing exceptional in terms of what you seem to have in it. You have pretty standard size appliances and a slightly larger than average sink in a larger sink base. It makes me wonder what your goals are. I can tell you want a large kitchen, but what does it need to do for you?

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 2:32PM
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How nice to have a luxuriance of space, but your main functions don't need to stretch out to fill it. They shouldn't.

BlFenton's suggestion to put the refrigerator by the stove in #1 is an elegantly simple way of making that plan you like nicely workable. What it does, in fact, is create a medium-size kitchen in the right half of your large area that'll work well for everyday cooking. The rest of the space? Do whatever you want with it, as she suggests baking center, canning kitchen. Anything, just as long as you don't have to be galloping back and forth over there just to fry up a couple eggs for breakfast. :)

    Bookmark   June 23, 2013 at 2:52PM
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Thank you everyone who has given me feedback on my kitchen layout. I have made some changes and included the kitchen table and seating area as well as a red line showing where the walkway though the kitchen is and where the walkway leads.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2013 at 12:05AM
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Love this layout, confused (guess you're not anymore, huh?) Would you mind sharing which program you're using to create this plan?

    Bookmark   June 24, 2013 at 1:49AM
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Where the fridge is makes sense as it is close to the eating center and the family room. I would consider moving the prep sink to the other side of the island so that your actual prep space is closer to the cooktop. This floor plan makes sense IF you are planning on using the island as prep space. If you plan on using the corner by the cooktop as your main prep space then you have a 13-14' walk everytime you need to go to the fridge.- that's a long walk.

Re your cabinet sizes - (hope you don't mind although you probably already have ideas for what goes where)
-The 8" cabinet by the fridge - what is that for? interior space will wind up being about 6" which is pretty narrow.

I would consider making the cabinets on either side of the cooktop 21" for some symmetry. Just an idea to consider.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2013 at 1:39PM
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I plan on using the island for prep space; I like the way I can be prepping and talking to people sitting at the island.

I'm not really sure about the 8" cabinet by the fridge. I just figured I had 8" left since I want a base cabinet with lazy susan in the corner which I believe is usually 36" x 36". The most space I could get between the refrigerator and counter was 20" which I will need to open the refrigerator door.

I am using microsoft word to do the layout. This was the easiest option for me.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2013 at 6:16PM
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If you have the fridge there, how about instead of the 8" cabinet on the right of the fridge, put it on the left of fridge facing towards pantry area one full height full width cabinet. Could be used for pantry, for cleaning supplies, for broom cabinet, for a keys/message/phone charging center, for cookbooks . . . .

Or, you could leave it as open shelving and make it decorative.

Also, I think 40" cabinet is too much for 36" refrigerator. Maybe someone else could chime in on this ?

    Bookmark   July 2, 2013 at 8:59AM
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There are some good examples with pictures at the end of this thread ...

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   July 2, 2013 at 9:04AM
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I'm glad you've gotten the prep sink closer to the cooktop, where it is needed.

However I am concerned that now your main prep surface is actually around the corner from the cooktop and at least 7-8 feet away. That would be too far for me.

Picture yourself standing in center of the island, just opposite the center of the clean-up sink. You've washed and cut up some veggies to add to a pot on the stove, you have to turn left and walk around the corner of the island to get to the middle of the cooktop.

If you turned the island 90 degrees (so stools had their backs to current fridge wall) this would be improved. This would be an even better design if you also moved the fridge to the place of the 40" cabinet shown in grey to the left of the doorway at the bottom right of the picture.

Functionally then you would move from the fridge (and also pantry) area in a straight line to the island/prep counter (with prep sink). Then you could just pivot around to the cooktop and wall-oven with the ingredients after prepping. You'd still be facing your seated companions. The clean-up zone corridor wiould still be outside the protected cooking aisle, etc.

I think the problem with large spaces is often the temptation to spread the work zones out along the walls like they are in much smaller spaces. The result is just a ballooned design, making the kitchen too spread out.

Think about how this works in other rooms. Take a living or sitting room: really big rooms don't just have their furniture ranged against the walls as smaller ones often do. Instead they have two or more clusters of seating arrangements, within each the elements are comfortable distance for the activity taking place - usually conversation and socializing.

In a kitchen the activity centers also need to have fairly similar spatial relationships, even if the room is large. Large rooms just allow more clusters. But you still need to have the standard proximate associations within those clusters of the individual components. In this case: close access to where the food is stored > surface where it is manipulated (prepped), preferably with easy access to water for washing it or prep-soiled hands > cooking appliances (ideally also with easy access to a water tap, I like the prep sink to do double duty as the cooking zone's water point for economy and simpliicty).

This is one reason why when I see a design (not yours!) that has the wall ovens across the room from the cooking surface I just roll my eyes. Who wants to carry hot pots from one area to another? Not me!

If you turned the island as I suggest this efficiency would be achieved quite easily. And even though the food prep/cooking cluster or zone is concentrated around one axis, you aren't going to feel it's cramped because of the overall size of the room. I think it will just feel right-sized, not over-sized.



    Bookmark   July 2, 2013 at 10:40AM
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