Kitchen costs

doctheokieJune 4, 2013

I'm having a house built and hired a K&BD and gave her a budget for a master bath,kitchen 1/2 bath and already she has gone way over. I'm wondering what a kitchen usually runs she is at 67,000 without appliances I just think this is really high am I wrong? Kitchen is 16.5 by 13

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It depends on the quality of the materials she has included in her proposal.

Including everything, a " high end" kitchen will run between $100k-$250k. This is premium and ultra premium materials all around.

The average kitchen remodel in the US cost $56k.

If you buy all your materials at Home Depot and pick Martha Stewart Cabinets, least expensive granite, mid grade laminate floor, a suite of least expensive SS appliances, lower priced backsplash,lighting, sink, faucet, and pulls you are looking at $25k including labor for an average sized kitchen.

If you have serious DIY skills then you can lop of some significant labor cost.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 5:48AM
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Since you are working with a designer, you should be tasking her with telling you what you can and cannot afford for a given budget level. That's her job. If you are certain that you do not want to go above a particular $$ and she is just blowing right past that, she is worthless to you. And you need to clarify to yourself and to her what your priorities are -- the budget? having certain features or items?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 6:22AM
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Early in the process of planning my remodel I met a designer who was highly recommended by friends and offered the least imaginative, most expensive (especially relative to value) plans I've seen at 67k. I'll spend more like 43k, have a much better layout, custom cabinets, and much better appliances (floor models). We will do some painting, and lots of shopping for sinks, faucets, pulls, stone, etc.. As Sayde said, clarify what you are getting from her. If you have the time and interest, you can do a lot of design work on your own.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 6:49AM
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You should probably just open up a spreadsheet and check. I remember when I started having this feeling that I was going to go over budget, but had no facts. Then I just added up the costs, and realized there was no way I wouldn't go at least 25% over my original budget without seriously changing my approach. Once I got that out of the way, it was easier to keep to my new budget because I had factored in 95% of the costs.

Materials are easy to factor, labor is the hard part, and where estimates can come in literally all over the place -- that is where you need the most diligence to keep costs down. I was looking at banquette seating and went from $9K to $2K just by asking a few questions to simplify the design, and finding a better builder.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 10:26AM
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67 grand seems pretty high to me. Not including appliances? I agree with everyone else--tell her your budget and see what she comes up with. We just did a complete gut job on kitchen and family room for way less than that. All we did was paint....

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 10:28AM
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You can easily spend that much and more, as people noted, but what are you asking for and what are you receiving? Since this is a new build, I assume that the basic plumbing, windows and drywall is covered. Is this covering cabinets, counters, bs, flooring, paint, trim and labor to cover the above? For that size of a kitchen, it definitely sounds on the high side. Is she affiliated with her own lines of cabinetry and other products? What is the cabinetry brand or is a local custom craftsman?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 11:29AM
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We already have a plumber and electrician doing the basics and drywall she hasn't broken anything down for us and since its a cabin we are going midrange according to KD. what should I get from her to get back on budget or just to see where my money is going?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 11:47AM
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We don't understand where your relationship with her is - perhaps because you don't understand. Has she purchased things, hired subcontractors, or just given you a proposal? Do you have a contract? How/why did you decide to work with her? What happens if the two of you can't come to an agreement? Is she paid by the hour, or as a percentage?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 12:11PM
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No contract yet but ,she hasn't finished anything but the drawing and she works on retainer for her time and effort for those.Just seems to me that she is way off on something so thats why i was curious on cost of kitchens others did with or without appliances

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 12:21PM
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Sophie Wheeler

You also need to clarify what "midrange" means to you. Here, in the local metro area, that would be something like Kraftmaid or Diamond or Shiloh cabinets, with something like GE Profile or a beginning Electrolux package level for appliances. You'd also have a standard domestic wood or basic porcelain tile for a floor with a simple subway tile backsplash and non exotic granite tops. Something like that would run from about 25K for a lot of DIY involvement, to around 50K if you're paying contractors.

In the rural area 40 miles from the city center, most people would think that was a highfalutin luxury kitchen.

In a local wealthy suburb, that would be a low end starter kitchen.

So, is your finish level higher or lower than that? Is her commission on top of the materials, or folded into the materials? Where are you building, and what do you expect to spend on that? All of that has a bearing as to perception of what "expensive" might be, as well as the reality of what things really cost at the level you are trying to move into. It's beyond true that if you have champagne taste and a beer budget, you have to bring a lot of personal labor and time to the table to stretch your budget as far as it will go. Would doing any of the work yourself be a possibility?

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 12:57PM
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You know the saying "you get what you pay for"? I don't think that is necessarily true in kitchens.

I think kitchens are unique in the marriage of form and function - every family room seems perfectly suited for sitting and watching tv, and every bedroom can allow a good night's sleep, but not every kitchen is well suited for cooking. If you cook, you should care about and understand things like work zones, storage layout, and appliance performance (including venting). I've never seen a bathroom with terrible placement of toilet paper relative to the location of the toilet, or towel bars far from the plumbing, but there are expensive, attractive kitchens with barrier islands and chopped up countertops.
I've also seen expensive kitchens with lots of trendy, attractive elements that do not look nice together or fit the house they are in.
Finally, there are numerous tradeoffs to be made in designing a kitchen - bigger sinks are great, but so are nice wide drawer stacks. Oven/cooktop combos cost more and can take up more space than ranges, but also function differently. Painted wood isn't as durable a surface as stained; different countertop surfaces have different advantages and disadvantages; backsplashes can be attractive focal points or harmonize disparate elements.
It is possible that other people find designing other rooms as interesting and difficult, I guess audiophiles and home theater buffs have their own concerns. But I think the kitchen is the most expensive room in any house, and the most disruptive remodeling project.
I don't know that I've helped you here, I started by trying to explain why knowing what others spend wouldn't really be all that useful...but now I feel MUCH better about how much time I'm taking with my planning :) Good luck!

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 1:30PM
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I found that thinking about where I would put things differently and if that would hurt or help how I cook. I discovered that my current foot print is pretty good. So when I was ready to talk to designers, I knew what I wanted changed and why. That helped me figure out a rough but reasonable budget that we talked about up front. Then I showed them later in the meeting rough sketches of my ideas. They both said that they could work within my modest budget. I ended up going with the designer who had the most channels for unique products and labor/craftsmen.

Our budget is modest because we are not replacing the current tile floors (over 400 sq ft), keeping some appliances, not changing the foot print, no new walls, windows, and doors. Very modest appliances and laminate counter tops. Money will got to cabinets, plumbing, ventilation. I can change out floors and counter tops at any time.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 6:46PM
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In SW-LA, a more rural community, when I told the KD I only had 10M-USD to spend, he nearly fainted. That's considered a small fortune here by a large percentage.

We're going to co-op on all of the demo (doing it ourselves). The KD's going to coordinate gas-rated plumber, electrician, finish carpenter, and handyman. He'll also advise on working within the parameters of the existing room and adapting workflow for "aging in place" considerations.

We're going with Summit appliances because of their ADA specs. & my own experience with the brand. Summit is probably lower end of the scale for many people. The KD wasn't familiar with them. He's usually asked for GE & Whirlpool...folks upgrading from Montgomery Ward or Sears & Roebuck appliances.

I'm considering both butcher block & some kind of stone countertops, a tile backsplash, plus a fire clay apron sink. Flooring will be cork tile (it's a concrete slab foundation).

We are keeping most of the original cabinetry and having the finish carpenter work with that. He's quite excited as he usually does tear-outs to replace with RTAs. That's what folks here consider "high end".

Hope that gives a little perspective on regional and metropolitan vs rural price variations. =>.

p.s. Our KD said we'll probably be within our budget *\0/*
p.p.s. The kitchen is 18'x11' with a walk-in pantry of 11'x7'

This post was edited by Locrian on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 19:26

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 7:22PM
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The appliances are not included in the 67K thats what is strange to me.Didn't really find many KDs when I started looking; however, when we met this one seemed she understood my desires. I don't mind paying; however, I do mind not knowing what I'm paying for already have a builder who likes to nickle and dime us.We are building a log cabin and want a somewhat non rustic look for the kitchen.

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 8:51PM
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High depends- brand, style, wood, finishes - are you involved in selecting those? What are they? Does 65k include the two baths?
Just wrapping up a new build kitchen that size. Upper middle brand (a little under P&F), maple with glaze, applied molding reverse raised door, galley with two islands, cabinets loaded, detailed. 33K
75 ft cambria, 20 ft Sapele-9500, led lights, hardware, 2 sinks and faucets-2500. Don't know floor or splash pricing but I'd put materials at 3K minimum. Total 48K.
Now change the style and finish could add 5+k, my higher end brand could add 20-30 %. If they had gotten it from any dealer in the area they were building everything would be 15-25% higher.
Throw in the baths...

Then again, if need be I could do a kitchen that size, nicely in a semi custom brand and manage to meet a total budget of 30k, down into the 20's with budget concious choices

Does the designer add a percentage? Interior D's do all the time. I work with one who makes more on my work than I do.
Is the GC's surcharge included? In the example above we were working to allowances so it was already accounted for elsewhere (15%)

Bottom line- not enough info here. You need to have her show you how she can get on budget, BUT you have to make the choices to do that.

Locrian- love it--a buddy of mine went to visit in the Philipines and no one could understand how he made a living as a K&BD..."So what do you do? decide where to dig the hole?"

This post was edited by jakuvall on Tue, Jun 4, 13 at 21:31

    Bookmark   June 4, 2013 at 8:56PM
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We are also building a log cabin, but are trying for a rustic, traditional look.

At any rate, you could do a lot of the planning yourself - it really isn't that difficult or time consuming - and save a lot of money. Also, if you go direct to the source you will save a fair amount of money. For instance - we found a custom cabinet maker who is giving us *precisely* what we want, and at a better rate than we could get at either Home Depot or Lowes. We went to a large stone yard here in town - they actually sell to the countertop retailers. We're getting excellent prices from them - HD can't come close.

Oh, and we are in a small town. Aside from the stone yard, we don't have much here. The cabinet maker is about 20 miles away. We do a lot of research and preshopping online to save time when we do go to the city..

This post was edited by gladys1924 on Wed, Jun 5, 13 at 0:23

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 12:07AM
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No the 67 K is for only the kitchen without appliances

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 12:22AM
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One thing I would suggest if you're in that price range is to start by hiring an architect, work on a layout, then send that out to bid from contractors. The bids you get back should be fairly well itemized so at least you will know what you are paying for and will be able to compare from one to another.

I'm not a big fan of an all-in-one approach where you pay a ton of money without knowing what you are getting.

    Bookmark   June 5, 2013 at 12:36AM
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