How much distance between things?

gale1965May 20, 2013

I don't mean walking distance but counter space. In our new kitchen, we will have the sink, dishwasher and fridge on the same wall. The sink will be in the (approximate) center, the dishwasher to the left of it, and to the right, the refrigerator, with a cabinet between the fridge and sink.. Is there a standard distance between the sink and the fridge? I'm guessing at least 24" but is that enough?

Also, our cooktop will be on an adjacent wall with a doorway at the end of the counter (so there won't be a wall or anything-just a drop off). Is 12" enough between the cooktop and the end of the countertop? Or would you make it bigger?

The image attached is a very crudely drawn tentative layout of it. Ignore the 48" on the top. It doesn't mean anything. The top width is 150" and the side is 94" of cabinet and 76" from the edge of the doorway to the wall, including the other cabinets. The 3 cabinets in the middle will be an island and will be one unit. The wall oven on the island will be in a base cabinet-not a tall one.

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The link is the "new to kitchens" thread posted by buehl. All you need to know and more.

Here is a link that might be useful: new to kitchens

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 6:17PM
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ok thanks. I did search and read but found everything about a kitchen triangle and nothing about counterspace between things. But thanks anyway. I'll do some more google searches.

eta: finally found something that helped. thanks for the link.

edit again: after looking at some of the kitchen pictures here, I see that some people don't follow the guidelines at that link. I'd love to hear from people who have less space than 24" on either side of the cooktop and if they wish they'd left more space.

This post was edited by gale1965 on Mon, May 20, 13 at 18:49

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 6:33PM
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I think 24''on both sides is the minimum ideal; that said, we have at least that or more on one side and less on the other (I think ~18'') but we also have an island nearby for a landing space. I'm out of town at the present time and I don't know the exact dimensions off the top of my head, but this layout has worked out fine for us.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 7:08PM
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Sophie Wheeler

What is the existing wall space available for the top wall. Do you have a plain layout with the wall length indicated for all of the walls you are working with? And where does that doorway lead to? Because there is room for a lot of improvement with this layout.

That angled island would be the first thing I'd change.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 7:33PM
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There are actual recommendations from the National Kitchen and Bath Association (NKBA) for the spaces on all the counters. I think they call for minimum 9" on the non-prep side of the cooktop. My cooktop has only about 3" to the right, with over 48" to the left. This works for my small galley kitchen. I never wish for more space on the right side. In fact, I like having my spice and oil cab right next to the cooktop.

Here's a link to some of the guidelines. You can probably find them all on line.

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBA guidelines

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 8:14PM
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The house is a modular and this is the included area for the kitchen. We can change some things but not anything major. The door to the left leads into the laundry room. The right side is open to the dining area, and the bottom side is open to the living room. We can use a different island but would have to choose from a list of what they offer. I'm attaching the entire house layout. We made the changes to the kitchen because I want the sink on the wall under a window. I don't want the cooktop on the island because I don't want a downdraft vent and I don't want one coming down from the ceiling. The plan shows a space for a range and we have an existing cooktop and wall oven that we want to use in the new kitchen.

I did change the original layout that I drew. See the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful:

    Bookmark   May 20, 2013 at 11:14PM
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---That angled island would be the first thing I'd change.---

Just curious about this. Is there a disadvantage to having an angled island like the one on this layout?

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 3:27AM
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Do you plan on having the dw next to the sink? If so, will you be able to have the door open and stand at the sink at the same time? One of the issues of the angle.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 6:50AM
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Are you sure about the dimension of the left wall? Not an architect or anything, but if I read the plan of the house correctly, exterior dimension of the kitchen appears as 12' on that wall.

As to layout, I would prefer to have fridge and pantry on the left wall plus a base cab for landing, if space permits. Top wall from the left, 12" base, cooktop, cabs (total length could be around 45" or a bit more if you can steal a few inches from the DR), then sink and DW. If an L shaped island is offered, it can help ease traffic when DW door is open.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 7:52AM
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Kristen Hallock

In the kitchen we just ripped out we had a cooktop on the island with about 18" on each side of the cooktop. It was awful.

I also had an island on a diagonal, which is sort of what you are planning. Mine wasnt curved though, it was a straight island, just set on a diagonal. I hated that too. There were pinch points by the fridge and dishwasher.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 8:22AM
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The sink and cooktop are WAY too close together on your plan. And the angled island adds nothing to the kitchen at all. You'll never use it. Straighten the island out to a long rectangle and put the sink on it facing the range. Off set the sink and the cooktop so there is no bumping butts. Now, you'll spend 90% of your time facing out into the room with people gathering around the island. 20% of your time in the kitchen is devoted to clean up tasks, while 70% is devoted to prep. Both need a water source. By putting that main water source on the island, you'll be facing inwared 90% of the time, with only 10% of the time turning your back on everyone to cook. You need to be able to divide the prep and cleanup tasks cleanly on the island, so think about where dish storage would need to be, and which side of the island should be prep, and which should be cleanup. Prep takes a lot more room, so plan on the largest stretch of counter space being devoted to it.

Also, this is a kitchen that is made cramped the the use of the wall oven and cooktop. Unless it's a single wall oven that you are planning to put under counter, I'd switch to a range.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 10:23AM
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---Do you plan on having the dw next to the sink?---

The sink is on the wall. We're not going to have it on the island. The DW is to the left of the sink.

---Are you sure about the dimension of the left wall?---
I'm attaching the kitchen schematic they sent me. I went off that for my drawing.

The reason I put the fridge where it is is because i want it closer to the dining area. That's how our fridge is now.

I know 100% that I don't want the sink on the island. I've thought long and hard about this one. And I want it under the window. I don't care if I'm not looking into the room while I cook and clean. I don't entertain, ever.

I also know 100% I don't want the cooktop on the island because of the venting issue. The wall oven is a single. We don't want to spend the extra $$ on a new range when ours work fine still. We are paying cash for this whole operation so anything we can save on, like existing appliances, we are. Am totally open to different islands though. Here is the link to the ones they offer. I would like one with 2 levels (higher counter on the back) for some seating area.

I'm not sure how I can get the sink and cooktop further apart. They're about the same distance as the original plan and probably about 8' apart. If the sink was on the island the cooktop would be even closer to it.

Here is a link that might be useful: kitchen islands available

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 2:11PM
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I wanted to add, also, that my current kitchen is tiny. So to me, this looks enormous! lol. Our kitchen now is 10 x 10 and is a U shape with wall and base cabinets on the entire U. Lots of storage but it's so closed up (one side is a peninsula with cabinets hanging from the ceiling) and only 6 feet of space between the legs of the U. The sink is at the bottom of the U (on an inside wall) and the cooktop is at one corner next to the sink-maybe 12" away on average-and the dishwasher is at a right angle to the sink. I hate the corners in my kitchen-stuff gets lost in the cabinets. I have a lazy susan but am not a big fan of it either. So this new kitchen with no real corners is really appealing to me.

I appreciate any suggestions but I know I want the sink on the wall under the window, do not want the cooktop on the island, would like to use my existing cooktop and wall oven, and want an island of some kind for the extra storage. Also I would prefer the fridge near the eating area and would like it to not be closed in on all 3 sides. Our current fridge is that way and it really limited the choice of refrigerators when we had to replace it.

thanks everyone :)

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 2:47PM
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Ooops, sorry, Now that I have my glasses on I realised my mistake.

For distances did you check NKBA's Guidelines?

Here is a link that might be useful: NKBAâs KITCHEN PLANNING GUIDELINES

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 3:18PM
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Thank you for that link. After walking around in my kitchen, I can't imagine any walkways smaller than 6'. Maybe I should go with a different island that will give me bigger walkways. We did a walkthrough of a house from the same plan but at the time, the walkways didn't seem small. But it had some modifications done to it so maybe it was bigger than the plan shows. On the walkthrough we did, they had the island lined up with the bottom wall and the wall was closed up. So moving the island down would have made the top walkway bigger.

I would do a DIY island but I want outlets on it and I'm not sure they would provide wiring for something like that. And my hubby doesn't want to do it. He doesn't mind making a new island but wiring is another story. There is one other island that I would consider (island J at the link above).

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 3:37PM
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then I'd go with J. if it's too big D might work.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 8:53PM
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Island J is 39 x 81. Would that be too big for this space? It sounds pretty big.

    Bookmark   May 22, 2013 at 9:11PM
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I have another drawing with a different island but is this too far away from the counters? Also, I am wondering if the oven would be better near the cooktop and not in the island. Here's the first one showing the oven in the island.

the word base only means this is for the base cabinets. The wall cabinets are on a different drawing but they are pretty simple anyway.

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 4:49PM
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This one shows the oven next to the cooktop on the wall. The link below shows what the island looks like. The L part is raised up.

Here is a link that might be useful: island

    Bookmark   May 23, 2013 at 4:51PM
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