50 amp outlet in a detatched garage

alfamanNovember 21, 2009

hi all

i am wiring my detatched garage for an arc welder and need a 50 amp outlet....

it's allready been wired from the house to the garage...a subpanel is in (correctly) in the garage

my question is in regard go grounding the oulet

i am running 6 gaure four wire (red,black, white, ground)from the subpanel to the oulet

it's my understanding that the white wire is the"ground" in this application...my subpanel is fed by 4 wires, and the GROUND BAR AND WHITE BAR/BUSES are seperated

now here's the question...if the ground bus and white bus are seperated in the subpanel...how can the white wire act as a ground?....and what do i do with the ground wire?

thanks for the help

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christophersprks

Your welder might have line-to-neutral loads and therefore requires a white wire. The white wire is NOT a ground wire it is called the "grounded conductor". The terminology sometimes gets confusing even to the best electricians.

The bare copper wire is the "Equipment Grounding Conductor", this conductor is used to connect the nonÂcurrent-carrying metal parts of equipment, raceways, and other enclosures to the system grounded conductor, the grounding electrode conductor, or both, at the service equipment or at the source of a separately derived system, That is there for your protection.

Place the bare conductor with the rest of the bare conductors and/or green conductors and place the white conductor with the other whites.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 7:47AM
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mike_kaiser_gw

Straight 240v doesn't use a neutral and this confuses a lot of people. Now with older 3-wire appliances like dryers and ovens there is a neutral because the motors and control circuits were 120v and the chassis of the appliance was tied to that to form sort of an equipment ground. Over the years the code has been changed and those kind of appliances now require four wires, two hots, a neutral, and the equipment ground.

If you're welder requires a 120v/240v 4-wire circuit, as Christopher said, put the neutral (white) wire on the neutral bar in the panel and the ground (bare, green) wire on the ground bar in the panel.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 9:35AM
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rewire

The grounded conductor(white wire) and the grounding conductor (green or bare) are bonded ( electrically connected) at the final overcurrent device.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 6:18PM
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alfaman

thank you...i'll place them like that in the subpanel

the welder i have is a lincoln ac dc arc welder...only about 6 years old with no real time on it

one last question...on my 50 amp flush mount outlet...there are three wire terminals...so i will put the 2 hots and 1 white wire in the proper places on the back....i guess i just fround the box with the bare ground wire (have 2 hots, one white, one ground from the subpanel to the oulet)..or how do i wire it......sorry i'm confused still

it's a "pass and seymour" 50 amp outlet i bought at lowes

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 7:49PM
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rewire

Look at your welder does it have a rating plate that says 120/240 or does it say 240 ? this will determine what you need. For 120/240 you need a 4 prong outlet and cord 2 hots ,1 neutral,1 ground =4. For 240 you will need a three prong outlet and cord 2 hots, 1 ground,=3 the white neutral is not used and should be capped off in your box if you use a metal box it will need a bond jumper to the ground. Start with your equipment and work back to the panel.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 8:27PM
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alfaman

it says ac 225 dc 125

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 11:44PM
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petey_racer

That's not what he meant. We need the INPUT voltage, not the output voltage.

Chances are this is a typical stick welder. As has already been stated, this is a 240v circuit. It DOES NOT require a neutral. Your receptacle will use two hots and a ground. Just cap off the white. You don't/didn't need it.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 12:08AM
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alfaman

found it

input power 230 volts
hertz 60

so as i understand it..i don't need the white and should cap it off at the outlet and not connect it to the subpanel

correct?..

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 12:27AM
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mike_kaiser_gw

input power 230 volts
hertz 60

Correct, you need a straight 240v circuit. You do not use the neutral (white wire). Don't cut off the white wire, you may need it down the road one day. Instead, just cap it off in the outlet box and sub-panel and tuck it neatly out of the way.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 5:40AM
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brickeyee

"The grounded conductor(white wire) and the grounding conductor (green or bare) are bonded ( electrically connected) at the final overcurrent device."

Were did this come from??

The ONLY PLACE groundED and groundING are connected is in a main panel.

The FIRST panel after a service entrance were the MAIN disconnect is located.

They are NEVER connected anywhere else.

They are kept separate in ALL sub-panels after the main panel.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 9:13AM
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Ron Natalie

The ONLY PLACE groundED and groundING are connected is in a main panel.
Actually, it's at the service disconnect, which is typically (but not always) the main panel. Sometimes, it's incorporated into the meter base or in my case, since I have a whole house generator/transfer switch, it's in a big switch between the meter and the transfer switch.

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 9:51AM
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alfaman

thanks everyone

the ground and "white" are only bonded at the main...subpanel they are seperated (subpanel also has it's own ground rod)..garage is detatched.....

the white to the 240 outlet came from the romex style "3 wire, plus ground" 6 gauge wire i ran from the subpanel to the outlet (sorry being so "wordy", but not sure of the correct terms)...

think i have it now..thanks all!

    Bookmark   November 23, 2009 at 10:51AM
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alfaman

one more question...i ground the metal recepticle box
(box with outlet) to the ground in the outlet right

(pigtail?)

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 1:34PM
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