smashleyNovember 23, 2009

First off I would like to start by extending a happy Thanksgiving to everyone on here :) Have a great day with your families and step-families.

Now for a bit of a vent/some advice from any of you that have been in this situation:

I posted a little while back and mentioned my boyfriends upcoming court date. To make a long story short, this court date is concerning a restraining order BM took out earlier this year (August, to be exact). My boyfriend got angry and sent some inexcusable text messages to BM over something that in hindsight, seems really ridiculous - earlier in the summer my boyfriend lent BM $400 - he made it very clear this was a LOAN and it was because she had lost her job and needed the money to provide for their child. August rolls around and she has not paid back a cent, yet has this elaborate new tattoo. My boyfriend freaks and says some very nasty things. We go on vacation, return, and she has taken out a restraining order barring him from seeing her or their daughter.

We went to court in September and had the child removed from the order. This upcoming date is to address the order itself. Her side is not willing to negotiate for anything less than the order being in place for a year - essentially making him a criminal until next August. He would have to report this on any job or school applications. We have had every intention to fight this. Now my boyfriends mother is suggesting he just accept the order for a year and move on. I am highly opposed. BM is engaged and looking to move out of state. When she tries this, I KNOW he will take her to family court to try and stop her. To me, accepting this order for a year looks like an admission of guilt and in my opinion can only hurt him in family court. He says he is going to talk to his lawyer before making any decisions, but he seems like he is leaning towards his moms opinion. I feel like by doing this, he is laying down to be walked all over. BM is crazy, and I think doing this will just prove to her that she can get her way by lying and threatening court action.

Has anyone been in this situation before? Any advice?

Thanks everyone, and again, happy Thanksgiving.

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Smashley, sorry you are in this situation right now, I'm sure it is very frustrating for you, but you did not cause this nor can you fix it. The BF got himself here all by himself by his own actions.

It may have been 'in the heat of the moment', but some very nasty, ugly, serious events can and have happened to victims in just such situations. Actions one chooses to take can not just be always fought and made to go away because the actions now make life tough for the accused.
I will assume he has a lawyer, that the original application and affidavit have been reviewed by the lawyer and your BF? Were there 'lies' in it or the 'truth' exaggerated and/or distorted?

This is not a case of he said/she said, I assume the ex GF has the texted messages and has used them as her proof. Orders are usually issued when the offended (victim) states they have been placed in fear of imminent, serious, physical actions against them. You state BF made some very nasty texts, obviously threatening enough to be considered serious and now he is facing consequences for his words which ex GF has every right to file and protect herself against.

You state "accepting this order for a year looks like an admission of guilt ", but you also say he did indeed make the nasty/threatening text. So I guess in my humble opinion that unless the original documents are false BF has little ground to complain. Understanding the event that brought the threats on as now ridiculous and/or should not have caused BF to act in the manner he did, does not change the fact that he did do it.

Realizing now he was wrong and that he was taken seriously when perhaps he over reacted in the heat of the moment, does not make what he did okay nor forgotten and forgiven, excused away. There was alot of anger in his actions towards the ex GF, he caused another person to feel fear and threatened, I find myself not able to feel much sympathy for BF that he may now have this held against him for up to a year.

I understand there are always two sides to every story and that this ex GF might be able to dish out some pretty bad behavior herself (from your previous post) but it does not change the fact that BF must be accountable and held responsible for his actions. There are so many persons that have been victims of violent acts that our court systems must take these issues seriously.

Good luck to you, smashley, in whatever direction you take your life, sorry I could not give any advice other than to let your BF and his lawyers handle whatever the outcome is.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 9:42AM
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I have to second everything justmetoo said.

I have a year-long restraining order on my SS's mother. She assaulted me at MY home last spring when she was intoxicated.

I am sure---no, positive, because she's said it since---that she regrets what happened that night. It has made her life more difficult, that's for sure. And I know when I first got the ex-parte order, her attorney was trying to convince mine to have me drop everything. But I forged ahead and got my year-long order. This coming May, it expires, and I still might go to court to petition to have it renewed for a year.

I know that, like whatever your BF said/did, BM did not plan to punch me. I am sure that, if she'd been given the choice, she would have chosen for that night to not have happened. And I am sure now, she wishes it hadn't happened!

But it did. I don't know the specifics of what your BF said and what evidence/proof his ex has. Were they threatening text messages? Did it cause her to fear for her physical safety? If she can prove these things, then she will get the order, no doubt, even if your BF DOES fight it.

Someone on here said that if someone threatens you, believe them. Take it at face value and act accordingly. This is probably where his ex is coming from. Sure, it's easy for BF to say now "oh, I over-reacted, I didn't mean any of those things, I would not hurt you" etc. But trust me---it's not as easy for GF to believe that. And IMO she shouldn't.

As far as reporting this on a job app, I have never heard of that. A restraining order does not make someone a criminal. It's not a guilty plea in a court of law. In my case, it was a family court matter.

That said--I suppose it IS possible that BM's order would show up on her background check. I don't know.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 11:03AM
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if he sent threatening texts just because she didn't pay 400 back, i have no sympathy for him.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 5:02PM
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I dont see why a restraining order would need to be reported on a school or job application, unless the ex GF attended or worked there. In which case, I do not think he can apply there. If there is some reason he wants to (if for example, it is the only college in town), I think his laywer can request a carve out to attend college) I can only imagin how distressful this is, but I suspect fighting it is uesless. I would save $$ to fight any move.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2009 at 9:20PM
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Wow! The mother of his child loses her job and he LOANS her $400? How much child support does he pay every month? I think $400 (even on top of child support), if it was used to help take care of their child because the custodial parent lost a job, isn't much. It's the least he could do.

The issues I see are tattoo, his anger management. and that since he is only a boyfriend, this is a great opportunity to SEE how he deals with his ex. Do you really want a long term relationship (or to have children with him?) Let's see:

1)he LOANS her money to take care of THEIR child in a crisis. He should have GIVEN it to her. It was for THEIR child. A loan would be for her own personal use. If she lost her job and needed it to care for their child, then he should not consider it a loan. If he couldn't afford to GIVE it to her, he should have bought his child what they need and tell the ex no to cash.

2) He reacts to her tattoo with anger and very little impulse control.. sends nasty texts and makes threats. That's a really mature way to communicate. Couldn't he try a civil conversation? I mean he was civil enough to loan his ex money, right? What kind of example is he setting for his child? How much harder is his child's life become over this? Oh yeah, how is he going to deal with YOU when you do something to upset him? Better watch out!

3) He doesn't take responsibility for his actions. Clearly, he sent threatening texts... regardless of excuses.. he did it. He could, now that he's had time to calm down, call his ex (or her attorney) and offer a truce. Apologize for the text, admit he was wrong, and as a gesture... tell her to keep the money. After all, it was for their child in her time of need.

He needs to FORGET the tattoo, it's NONE of his business. As long as his child is being taken care of properly, he really has nothing to say about the tattoo. She could have bought $300 worth of video games or gone to a fancy restaurant and it would still be none of his business. If the child is NOT being cared for properly, then he needs to seek custody. (and 'cared for properly' does not mean 'to his standards' but truly not cared for by the courts standard)

and last of all:


    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 1:09AM
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Good advice, Ima.

I suspect there is more to this. Restraining orders only cover the person it is threatening towards. In order for the restraining order to cover his daughter as well, Ex would have had to show the judge why it was threatening towards daughter and the judge would have to agree.

You know, its interesting to me how women get into these situations with a clearly undesirable person but since they can't make their SO look better, they try to make the Ex look worse. And with someone of this guys caliber, I wouldn't be willing to go on his word that he loaned his Ex this money and she just went out and got a tattoo with it. Probably something else to it. But it doesnt really matter anyway, you absolutely know he has a restraining order on him...what is your problem? And you really want to be this guys girlfriend and defend him? You might want to rethink your position in all this.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 11:01AM
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"he LOANS her money to take care of THEIR child in a crisis. He should have GIVEN it to her. It was for THEIR child. A loan would be for her own personal use. If she lost her job and needed it to care for their child, then he should not consider it a loan. If he couldn't afford to GIVE it to her, he should have bought his child what they need and tell the ex no to cash."

I have to disagree with this statement. We really don't know all the facts here (ie--does BM have a history of being financially responsible and really did get into a financial bind due to job loss? Or is being hard-up for money a pattern for her?)

If it were the former, and BF/BM otherwise had a civil relationship, then I can see where it would be acceptable for him to give her money. BUT if BM is NOT responsible and giving her money sets a PRECEDENT, then no, I don't think BF should feel obligated.

I say this because obviously I am biased. BM (in our case)has spent the last six years pretty much not working, being pregnant and living off the state. She's hit DH up for money more times than I can count. And quite frankly, it's not okay. If she cannot afford to take care of their child, then SS should live with us. Period. I don't see it as DH's obligation to give her money when they're broke. That's HER problem and her DH's problem. When it starts affecting SS, then, yes, it IS DH's problem but giving BM MORE money than what is required by child support is not the answer. I like the idea of buying groceries or whatever is specifically needed as opposed to handing out cash.

And, really, in our situation, if it came down to it again (and BM hasn't asked in many, many months) DH would say "No, I am sorry, I cannot give you money/buy you groceries BUT I will be HAPPY to have SS stay with me until you get back on your feet."

Now, we don't know the specifics of OP's situation but I wouldn't just jump to the conclusion that BF should have given her the money free and clear. It depends on many different factors like whether this was a one-time incident, how much child support BF pays, how much time the child spends with him vs. mom, BM's work history, etc.

Note--this has NOTHING to do with the restraining order. I clearly think BF said something inappropriate and threatening, and should be absolutely held accountble for that. BM not repaying a loan does NOT give him the right to be violent and/or threatening.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2009 at 11:18AM
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Hello all.

Let me preface this with the fact that I 100% believe in taking responsibility for your actions. I told my BF the second this mess started that BM is the type of person who was waiting for him to mess up so that she could start some legal proceedings like this, and he made his bed so he very well has to lie in it. However, I know the BM very well and while you guys are on the outside, I'm very much on the inside and trust me, this woman (really, girl because of her emotional maturity) gives just as good as she gets.

My BF pays child support, pays for his daughters medical insurance, feeds her, clothes her, makes sure she has every thing she could ever want. Trust me, he is NOT a deadbeat parent. BM has a history of losing her job, and not paying her bills. During their relationship, my BF paid her rent at one point when he wasn't even living in the apartment. In this case, she was fired from being a server because her personal life got in the way and she was rude to customers, and she needed the money so that she could avoid telling her mother she lost her job. My BF has gotten her out of a $200 traffic ticket because through his mothers business, he knows many of the police officers in his town. He always sent the baby home with extra diapers in her bag, just in case BM didn't have any. My BF and his mom do anything and everything they can to make sure the baby has everything she needs. In fact, BM rubs this in his face constantly. Example, my BF wanted to sign the baby up for a KinderMusic class. He said he'd pay for it no problem, and since two of the classes were during her time, he'd be more than willing to pick her up, take her, then bring her back. BM's response? "No, she can't take that class. You're just trying to rub your money in my face and make me look like a bad parent" REALLY care about your child. In my opinion, she does not put the child first because if she did, she wouldn't take that kind of experience away because of pride. But as lovehadley said, this is neither here nor there, I just really resent what imamommy implied because at 21 years old, my BF has done better than a lot of the 30-something year olds that I read about on this forum.

Make no mistake, my BF will be paying for his actions. Were the messages nasty? Yes. Did he physically threaten her? No, he didn't. I think the worst one was "I wish you were dead for (baby's) sake." Very mean and things he's not proud of, but non-threatening. BM put exaggerated incidents from 3 years prior into this TRO, incidents that my BF has witnesses to defend himself with. If you felt so threatened, why did you continue a relationship and contact for so long? In short, this woman is a liar and manipulates people to her advantage. We live in the South with VERY conservative court systems, so she plays them to her advantage. In the state in which my BF lives, even an allegation of domestic violence or a request for a TRO by a woman is immediately given without any investigation whatsoever. BM once called the cops on my BF while he was at work. He got home and was about to be immediately arrested, no investigation or anything, and only when he was able to show his time slip was he released. In short, I don't agree with anything he said, but the system is messed up and she plays it exactly how she wants it.

What has been decided now is that my BF is accepting an ex-parte order of protection against him for a year. However, he will be arguing this case and presenting witnesses to attest to this matter and the BMs insanity in family court where they know the judge and know he will be given a fair ear on which to make his case. More than anything, he just fears for his child. He doesn't put it past BM to pack up the baby in the middle of the night and just leave.

I appreciate all of the feedback, but please everyone, know that I am a rational person who despite loving her BF, can recognize his faults and flaws and knows when he is wrong and when he needs to take responsibility for his actions. My main issue is that BM manipulates the situation to get what she wants, which I think is an unfair tainting of our court system.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 11:04AM
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Also, in direct response to imamommy and nivea -

He loaned BM this money in May before he and I went on vacation with his family - I know this because he told me and I told him that it was a stupid idea because of how flaky BM is. When I asked what the $400 was for, because he already pays child support he said "well she needs to pay her car insurance so she can drive (baby) around." I'm sorry, forgive me if I think something like BMs CAR INSURANCE is not his responsibility. BMs mother, who she lives with, is a tough lady and BM was simply scared to admit to her mother that she messed up and lost her job.

Because he pays child support and for the baby's insurance, he had every right to tell her it was a loan...and by August, when BM had a new job and he hadn't seen a penny back and she's sporting a new and clearly expensive tattoo, I'd be upset as well. He definitely handled it the wrong way, there's no doubt about that, but I think he had every right to be upset. This is money he gave her on good faith for things he deemed (I disagreed) necessary to their child's life, and she squandered it.

Nivea - what's my problem? Maybe it's that this woman is a liar who has done nothing but make my BFs life a living hell for years. This is a girl who used to "friend" me on any social networking site just to say hateful things. This is a girl who screamed rude and hateful obscenities to me in a public place because her relationship didn't work out so she needed someone to blame. This is a girl who has always acted irrationally - cheated on, hurt (both physically and emotionally), and lied to my BF. She's a spiteful person. She kept my BF and his mother from seeing his daughter for 2 months. She directly said "I want your mom to have to BEG to see her grandchild" because she resented that my BFs mother didn't really like her. These are not exaggerations. Most of this are things that happened before my BF and I were together because of her insane and irrational jealousy. So for the courts to just take her at her word, that is what I take issue with. My BF messed up, and he knows it. To be honest, he's really okay with the order because it works both ways - he can't contact her but she can't contact him as well. But her blatant manipulation, her lies and embellishments, those are things I cannot be okay with - and they're things I would take issue with in any situation, whether I was emotionally involved or not.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 11:24AM
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"I wish you were dead" sounds threatening to me and that's over $400? Mother of his child, he wishes she was dead? What a charmer. If she refuses to repay a loan, he could sue her in court but getting violent says a lot about him. not a man i ever want to be with.

"When I asked what the $400 was for". he is not even your husband, he is a boyfirned, how is it your business how much money he gives to ex?

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 2:17PM
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ITA with FineDreams.

When I asked what your problem was, I didn't mean what problem you have with BM lol. I don't think you have any idea how you are coming across right now, but you sound bonkers and deranged for defending your boyfriend with what he has done. The worst text message was very bad, I'm not sure there is much worse to say than that. I really don't understand how you think it is not imagine that being sent to your mother, sister, best friend.....or YOU one day. Would you be defending your boyfriend then?

There are many, many, many posters here who have child support issues/money issues with the other parent. A lot of us here went years without child support or a massive debt built up by the exwife their husband is now paying off or a mortgage with the husbands name on it that the ex isn't paying. In all these scenarios $400 is chump change and you're on here defending your boyfriend for sending threatening text messages about it. You've got to be kidding me, but you're not. So I'm going to lay it out for you, it is not acceptable under any circumstances. With your logic many of us here would be free to physically hurt our Ex's because of how much money they owe us. That is not acceptable. Your boyfriend is showing his true colors, believe him.

And as far as your boyfriend paying child support, thats good. But that doesnt mean he has been paying half. My ex pays child support (sometimes) but it doesn't even pay close to half of DD's expenses. And if all my Ex owed me was $400 I'd be one happy lady.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 2:50PM
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Smashley, I think maybe you're so angry over it all that you don't realize how you sound to others in trying to justify what happened.

I understand that BF loves his daughter and tries every hard to see to it that the baby has all she needs plus. That's a good thing. But in trying to explain what happened here you just seem to be tossing more fuel on the fire so to say.

"I wish you were dead" is indeed to be taken seriously. A law enforcement officer or a court does not take the time to investigate totally into such a complaint. Several reasons for that. How do they know your BF is the one who really doesnt mean it? While they look into it the man they are investigating might have been the one who could cross the line and turn "I wish you were dead" into "and now you are". It is threatening. Just because he said 'wish' instead of "i'm going to kill you" does not make it a nonthreatening statement.

But looking into (investigating) is what has been happening, right? BF was able to get order removing daughter from it when proved no threat was directed towards the baby. And now he gets to appear in court and give his side and counter to the BM's version of incidents. The system has no way of knowing which person out there may mean something and which one is just really really mad but harmless. The system is doing it's job, protecting people/possible victims. If BF had controlled his temper in the first place, he would not be in the process he is in.

It sounds like things got way out of hand between all three of you (you, BM, BF ) and maybe you should have acted first when BM was verbally attacking you and/or stalking around your website harrassing you. But you did not. It has all advanced into the ugly/nasty texts sent by BF. It really does not matter right now what BM says/did in the past or that she is a mean hateful person full of lies. What the system has to go on is proof of BF's actions (the threatening text). It's a fine line between wishing and acting and your BF gets his day in court.

It sounds like BM knows how to push BF's buttons, and yes his button may have held steady through a lot and for a long time, but it finally went off and it is being taken seriously. Restraining order for both of them against the other is likely the very best thing for both of them.

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 3:15PM
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Well, I guess when I'm dealing with a BM that basically abandoned her daughter for a guy she only knew a couple of weeks, refuses to support her daughter and constantly gets her hopes up, then lets her down... and blames me & my DH for it. Then lets her do whatever she wants when she's there (because it's easier) & then leaves it to us to deal with a girl that gets emotionally upset over her weight gain & at 10 years old, she has food issues and we are accused of abusing her with oatmeal & peanut butter... CPS has been involved.


Now I am also dealing with a bi polar 19 year old that has abdicated her role as mother of her 8 month old baby over to me because she wants to go party, get tattoos, piercings, drink & post pictures of her escapades on myspace, meanwhile accusing my son (her husband) of cheating on her and having a good time while he is deployed in Afghanistan. (then claims she has no money for formula but she has a nice new lip ring)

I guess I think writing off $400 that went toward a necessity (and car insurance IS a necessity if she's driving their child around) is not a big deal. I have spent thousands on raising my stepdaughter while her mother pays NOTHING in support... very little when she does make a payment to prevent losing her license. My son has only been gone a month and his last two checks went to his wife who hasn't had any expenses... I've had their baby and I have provided diapers & formula for him. She claims she has no money, which I know is a lie.... but, what good does it do to get angry and fill your heart with hate and anger?

I understand your frustration... if you read posts I wrote over two years ago, I was in a much different place and full of anger, frustration, and everything my SD's BM did, annoyed me.

Loan or not, pick your battles.... or fight about everything. Some people just WANT to fight because it's easier than dealing with the real problems. Just remember YOU CAN'T FIX STUPID~ OR CRAZY~

    Bookmark   November 30, 2009 at 9:28PM
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Sorry if it seemed like I was getting mean or hateful, because that was not my intention. I also am not defending what my BF did. It was wrong. Very wrong. If someone was coming at me like that, I wouldn't take it very lightly. I guess I can see it differently since I was there the night the texts were sent and I knew nothing would come of them, but being on the other side and reading all of your responses, I can see where BM would be frightened.

For me, I guess my frustration comes from not this particular situation because as I said, my BF made his bed and he certainly has to lie in it, but just the type of person BM is in general. I have read a lot of the posts here, and I get the feeling a lot of you have interacted with people like her before - she is the type to think she is absolutely perfect, she never does anything wrong, and poor her over everything, even when she brought actions on herself. For example, asking for money when her own actions (being rude to customers because she was having a bad day) led to her being fired.

I also think I have such an issue with this because I've seen people who NEED to get TROs in custody cases not get them and then there is blatant manipulation of court on BMs part. For example, there is a family that is near and dear to my heart. The mother was my manager at my first job ever when I was 15. She's my mentor, my hero. She has twins who were born at 26 weeks, itty bitty preemies who fought for their lives. I was their nanny for a summer and I became, and have stayed close to, their whole family. The father is an alcoholic and drug addict. The mother went ahead with a divorce, something that was difficult for her because she was so used to cleaning up his messes, and because her daughters adore their father, but she did it. He hasn't paid a nickel of child support. The twins were taken off of his insurance and he didn't bother to tell her, while both girls need weekly physical/speech/occupational therapy. He's shown up to have visitation, fails a drug test, and then the twins have to watch a terrible scene of their mother making their father leave. The mother began dating a WONDERFUL man who treats her and the twins like princesses. The father found out. He showed up at the house threatening to kill her and himself. When the mother called the police for a TRO - what did she get? Nothing. This is when there was a REAL and PRESENT threat.

So - I know that was a long winded story - I guess it just really frustrates me to see the truly bad people go without consequences and the people who make honest bad decisions that they wish they could take back and have tried to make up for (my BF has been in anger management counseling and has made no complaints about the present TRO, no violations, nothing) have the book thrown at them.

But I do appreciate all of your responses. It has really helped me see the flip side to this situation, which with its many facets is extremely complicated.

The court date is tomorrow, I'm fairly certain that a settlement of an ex-parte yearlong restraining order will be put in place - and since there is a settlement I do not have to appear, which is nice since finals are coming up (ew). I think this a good thing because they have proven that they cannot co-parent and when they don't have contact, it seems to be much more pleasant and stable for the baby.

In other, more positive news, I will be spending Christmas with my BF and his family, including the baby, so this will be a nice time to get to know her better.

Again, thanks for all the replies, and sorry this is so long!

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 8:22PM
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