Counter Receptical

philby_incJuly 1, 2010

Seems to make no sense using 14/3 for a split plug on a kitchen counter. it means that the common can carry up to 30 amps. how is this legal? code book tells me that's what I need to use

Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
petey_racer

The neutral in a multi-wire branch circuit only carries the current imbalance, NOT the combined current of the two hots.

I assume you are in Canada?

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 3:26PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
petey_racer

Happy Canada Day BTW!!

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 4:31PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
brickeyee

When you add together things like the sine waves of voltage you have to know the phase difference between the waves.

The two legs are 180 degrees out of phase.

If you put equal loads on each 120 V leg, the resulting current in the neutral wire is zero.

The advantage of the 'Edison system' like this is that we can have 120 V to ground for safety, but between the legs get 240 V for larger loads.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 5:31PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
Ron Natalie

Yes it was Edison that did the three wire service, but it had naught to do with sine waves nor 240V loads. It was DC and all the loads were 100V (the nominal voltage being 110 to deal with resistive loss). The reason for a +110/0/-110 distribution system was to save on wire. The entire system was a giant MWBS.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 6:46PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
brickeyee

"...but it had naught to do with sine waves nor 240V loads"

We use the system since it allows for larger loads at 240 V while maintaining the safety of having a maximum of 120 V to ground.

It is true that it also works for DC systems, but only if the DC is configured in the same way.

Edison's chief problem with using DC was the inability to take advantage of higher distribution voltages to reduce line loss.

The lowest distribution voltage in the US is 7.2 kV.
It runs up to almost 500 kV for a very few long distance lines, and up to 1 MV for some special DC lines (we now can convert the DC back to AC using SCRs, large stacks of SCRs).

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 7:01PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
philby_inc

I'm a bit confused. if I plug in a toaster and a kettle in the split receptical, the common doesn't carry both loads? Am I missing something? and yes I'm in Canada. thanks for the fast reply's. I'm glad I found this sight. thanks again

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 11:03PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
spencer_electrician

basically the toaster will return through the kettle. Any difference in amperage between the two will be carried on the neutral wire. Just like the whole house, 3 wires come in (all the same size, sometimes even smaller for the neutral). One leg carrying 80 amps and the other carrying 95 amps (just an example), the neutral only sees 15 amps. In that scenario the neutral is allowed to be smaller because it is unlikely that 200 amps would ever be used on one leg with 0 amps being used on the other leg (200 amp service in example). In your 15 amp scenario, the most your neutral will see is 15 amps. If some moron were to move breakers around so that the black and red are on the same phase, the neutral code potentially see 30 amps. That would not happen since you have to use a double pole breaker anyway. Don't forget to check GFCI requirements, if GFCI protection is required, you will have to use a double pole GFCI breaker.

    Bookmark   July 1, 2010 at 11:59PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
philby_inc

Thank You Spencer. The panel I'm using is a stablock and it is possible to put a double breaker in this make of panel on the same leg. I found it out when I hooked up an oven/range and the oven wouldn't heat (but the clock worked). I'll have to make sure that I put the breaker in the right position in the panel. Sounds like that type of panel needs a safety upgrade. Thanks so much

    Bookmark   July 2, 2010 at 5:36AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
DavidR

> The panel I'm using is a stablock ...

Change it. I wouldn't knowingly sleep in a house with one of those panels.

Here is a link that might be useful: FPE Stab-lok Panels

    Bookmark   July 4, 2010 at 2:25AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
petey_racer

For some reason, the FPE panels in Canada are not the same problem as the are in the US. I believe they are still newly installed to this day.
Maybe one of our regulars from Ca can shed some light.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2010 at 7:52AM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
DavidR

Oops, sorry, I didn't see that he was in Canada.

I've read too that the Canadian FPE panels were OK. No idea what the difference was / is.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2010 at 1:51PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
brickeyee

"I've read too that the Canadian FPE panels were OK. No idea what the difference was / is. "

The panelsare not so much a problem as the breakers,

    Bookmark   July 5, 2010 at 9:06PM
Thank you for reporting this comment. Undo
joed

FPE in Canada is Fereral Pioneer as oppposed Federal Pacific in the USA.
FPE is still a very popular panel in Canada. They were made by a different company than the ones in the USA. Schneider Electric makes them now.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2010 at 9:16AM
Sign Up to comment
More Discussions
Power to shed
Looking to run one 20 amp circuit to my shed and I'm...
ohio45424
Please Critique Low-Volt (Home Automation) Plan/Proposal
GW/Houzz Community, As always, I want to thank this...
Andrew K.
Inspection Report
Had a gorgeous 1909 house inspected yesterday and don't...
cmae17
1 of 2 security light bulbs keep going out, do i need a new light?
I have a security light fixture in my carport that...
tlbean2004
Outdoor subpanel as AC disconnect
Can we use an outdoor subpanel as an AC disconnect?...
ylmzm
Sponsored Products
Nanaimo Bar Stool
| Dot & Bo
Kartell | Masters Counter Stool - Quick Ship
YLiving.com
Tolix Marais Stool
Design Within Reach
Tulip Drop Pendant -Brushed Nickel
$65.55 | Bellacor
Large Wooden Shade Pendant Light for Home Lighting
ParrotUncle
Solid Wood Tufted Parson Barstool
Overstock.com
Homelegance Papario Square Counter Height Table in Black
Beyond Stores
Armen Living Wayne Swivel Bar Stool - Brown - 30 in. - LC4048BABR30
$346.50 | Hayneedle
© 2015 Houzz Inc. Houzz® The new way to design your home™