Feeding 220v welder

zz1100June 21, 2007

HI, I was hopeing for some help on running a 220v outlet for my welder.

Its max input is listed at 56amps, so 60amp breaker? what size wire? my plan was to put it through the wall (they are unfinished still)possibly run one outlet on each side of the garage, both about 30 feet from the panel. The welder has a 3 wire plug on it. I'll run the outlets and get an electrician to tie it to the main.

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Ron Natalie

If the welder has a plug, what is the rating on the plug (it will be stamped on there). What does the welder installation manual suggest for a circuit?

    Bookmark   June 22, 2007 at 10:03AM
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rockwood84

i have seen a lot of welders hooked up with 10/3 some hooked up 2 #6 with #8 ground i guess it up to how much $$$ you want to put in it. 10/3 will carry 60 amps #6 will carry it better

    Bookmark   June 23, 2007 at 4:38PM
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zz1100

Thanks for the replies,, The plug is a 50A someone put on, the welder is marked for max input 54A, so what I've done so far is get a 60A 220v breaker, a 3prong 50A recept. and 4 wire #6 service cable, Ive hooked the recept with red and black, and using the white for ground (I will wrap the visable ends in the panel and close to the plug with green tape)so my plan was, red and black to the breakers, and white marked green to the ground bus. I havent went into the panel yet(I will drop the main first of course), any glaring, burn the house down errors anyone see with my plan??

I know the new ranges and dryers are 4 wire, wich Im guessing is the addition of a neutral, the welder only has 3 from the factory, is there some way cool reason they dont put a neutral on a welder? or is it just older?

    Bookmark   June 23, 2007 at 7:59PM
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spencer_electrician

The way cool reason is a welder does not need a neutral. 240 volt appliance utilize line to line to make a circuit. Some items like ranges and dryers use 120/240 volt which uses line to line to power cooking or heating elements while it uses line to neutral to run 120 volt components like clocks and motors. In the old days, dryers and ranges still needed a neutral however a ground wire was not ran to the appliances. Instead the appliances frame was bonded to the neutral wire. It accomplished the same thing as grounding an appilance as neutral and ground are bonded anyway. However in the rare situation, the other .001% of the time. If the neutral comes loose from the panel, the entire appliance frame is then trying to get back to ground to allow the clock and motors to run. The next lucky person to touch the dryer and washer at the same time gets to make the machine work again. That is with their heart in the middle of the circuit ):

    Bookmark   June 23, 2007 at 9:53PM
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zz1100

Thanks for posting that, best explination I've heard, thanks!

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 12:17AM
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bus_driver

I simply refuse to use a welder at my house. Mine, all three of the electric welders, are in a separate building. I personally know of several houses destroyed by fires started by welding. If you do choose to use the welder at your house, stay in that area for a "spark watch" for at least 45 minutes after the welding stops.

    Bookmark   June 24, 2007 at 11:15AM
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rbanks

>>what I've done so far is get a 60A 220v breaker, a 3prong
>>50A recept. and 4 wire #6 service cable

I think you should switch to a 50 amp breaker so you don't exceed the capacity of the receptacle. You'll almost never use the welder at max capacity.

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 2:13PM
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zz1100

I did exactly that LOL,, I have the 60A, but I thought about it and came to the same conclusion, if I need the 54A input Ill find a beefier recept. All wired up and running now, wife is standing by on fire watch hehehe, thanks for the help guys:)

    Bookmark   June 26, 2007 at 9:11PM
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brickeyee

Welders (like hermetic compressors and induction motor loads) have separate code sections.
The equipment contains protections to prevent overloading the wires.
All the OCD provides is short circuit protection to the circuit conductors.

    Bookmark   June 28, 2007 at 9:11PM
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newgarageguy

* Posted by rockwood84 (My Page) on
Sat, Jun 23, 07 at 16:38

i have seen a lot of welders hooked up with 10/3 some hooked up 2 #6 with #8 ground i guess it up to how much $$$ you want to put in it. 10/3 will carry 60 amps #6 will carry it better

Am I reading this right and where are you getting your information? You can burn down your own house but DO NOT give advice to someone else unless you are ready to
BACK IT UP
NEC 334.80 / 310.15
10/3 is only rated for 30 amps.

    Bookmark   July 2, 2007 at 10:08PM
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itsunclebill

i have seen a lot of welders hooked up with 10/3 some hooked up 2 #6 with #8 ground i guess it up to how much $$$ you want to put in it. 10/3 will carry 60 amps #6 will carry it better

Am I reading this right and where are you getting your information? You can burn down your own house but DO NOT give advice to someone else unless you are ready to
BACK IT UP
NEC 334.80 / 310.15
10/3 is only rated for 30 amps.

I would suggest that anyone jumping in quoting code references, especially outside the realm of normal residential branch circuits, might want to consider actually looking at related code articles before making statements regarding work they cover. As was pointed out, there is a special section in the code book that deals with welders.

Although the wisdom of installing a breaker larger than permitted for a general use circuit in a residence is questionable, NEC Article 630 does permit breakers larger than 30 AMP to be used on #10 wire for a welder, given certain welder characteristics. While I generally install conductors matched to the breaker size for residential welder use there is no code requirement to do so.

The correct size wire and breaker for the welder should be available in the manufacturer's literature. In the unlikely chance this information isn't available the information in article 630 will provide the necessary for a compliant installation.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 6:32AM
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brickeyee

newgarageguy,
You need to review Article 630 Electric Welders.
The article you cited does not apply to them.
If you want to learn some more, Article 430 covers motors, motor circuits, and controllers; while 440 covers hermetic compressors.
Where a special section exists it is used and not the more general sections.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2007 at 4:36PM
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