Am I being unreasonable?

LaylaPOctober 28, 2011

I've been seeing my boyfriend for 6 months. I'm 27 (but I look 19) and I'm really cute and I'm smart and sweet. Really, I don't mean to be conceited I just want to say that I have a lot going for me.

My boyfriend is 43, divorced with 2 kids (boys 11 and 14).

Already, I only see him 3 or 4 evenings a week, not at weekends because he has the kids.

It is hard to be alone when they are out having fun. And they have a lot of fun! Activities, movies, restaurants, going down to his cottage and waterskiing with his boat etc etc.

Which is great for them and I don't resent it. However, he hasn't taken me out in over a month. He just comes home tired from work and we hang out. Which is nice, but I'm starting to feel a bit neglected. It's especially annoying that he sees all the good movies with his kids - they go to the cinema at least twice a week together.

I have a great job but I am still in debt from my previous relationship (bf stole my money, ran up my credit card $8500 and disappeared without paying rent for 3 months...)

Also, I have to support myself (obviously) paying my rent, phone bill, credit card bills, etc.

That means when he is away with the kids, I don't have the resources to go and have fun. He makes $500k a year, and I just thought it would be nice if he'd give me a little money to go to the cinema myself, or get some sushi or something to make me feel he cares even when he's not there.

Or even order a pizza to my house to be nice - like one time he called and asked me what I was having for dinner, I said soup and all he said was oh I made the boys a great chicken curry...

He has cooked for me a total of once in 5 months of living together.

To put it in perspective, I clean his apartment every day (which he leaves in a mess every single night - I'm talking dishes, beer cans around the place, coffee mugs, glasses with his cigarette butts floating in an inch of sludge, etc. I do his laundry, fold it neatly and put it away. I make sure everything is clean, tidy and always put fresh towels out for his kids. I also do the grocery shopping, pay for those groceries and cook.

To be fair on him I should mention what he has done for me :

- photoshopped some designs for my business a few months ago

- brought me some gifts when he went to Mexico on business for a week at the beginning of our relationship (perfume, a cheap dress, some moisturiser...)

- took me to his cottage twice this summer (one night each trip)

- took me to dinner maybe 8 times? Never made a reservation anywhere nice though, and I don't count a few cheap meals on the fly. And those dates were at the very beginning of our relationship.

- took me to the movies once

- took me out with his friends (mostly to show me off) then kinda stopped inviting me out as much (he likes his guy time)

- took me to another city for one night - but I paid $900 towards that trip, which is a lot more to me than it is to him!

- lent me $2000 that I paid him back a few weeks later. It was only because an international check I got wouldn't clear before my rent was due.

Also, he has an ex wife, and she gets everything she wants.

She got the house with the pool and hot tub and she gets 50% of his salary. She never worked a day and she's 6 years older than him! Fine, not my business.

So three weeks ago she went away on vacation for a week to Cuba and he had to go stay at their old house to babysit the kids, so I didn't get to see him except when he snuck away for a few hours at night for a booty call.

Then just last week she goes off again this time to South Africa for 10 days. She does this trip twice a year, refuses to fly coach and the round trip first-class tickets are $10k each time!

Fine - their business, not mine.

She also had a housekeeper and he kinda almost proudly told me that his wife had never cleaned a bathroom their entire relationship. I think that's kinda rude since I've been cleaning his bathroom and his kids' bathroom for 5 months now.

Anyway - so he invited me over to his old house when the kids were asleep. I asked him if I should eat before I came over, he said no I'll save you some dinner and keep it warm for you.

So I took a cab over to his place as instructed. I kinda expected him to be waiting to pay the cab as most of my exes did, but he didn't. That's fine, I don't expect it but he knows I have very little money at the moment but whatever. I go inside, I cuddle, I ask if I can have my dinner because I'm starving. He says "oh, sorry my boys ate it all". He thought it was funny. Now, I understand that they come first, but honestly - they come first to the point that I don't even get dinner?! Then he said he'd throw a pizza in the oven for me if I'd like. That kinda insulted me since they'd had a take out pizza. I said no. I don't like frozen pizza, it doesn't taste good and they had ordered themselves takeout pizza, so they obviously agree.

I just feel that I do a lot for him and he doesn't appreciate it enough to even save me a slice of pizza!

But I let it go.

In the morning he wanted to sneak me out before the kids woke up. Fair enough - the night before he said he'd get me a cab hme. It's now 8am on a Sunday. So I said - are you calling me a cab? He said, surprised, you want a cab?

I said well how else do I get home from here?

He said well I was going to drop you at the subway. Why don't you go get in the car?

I was a bit hurt. I don't like being dropped at the subway, and I paid a cab to get there the night before... It seemed kinda mean.

But I let that go, and even bought his kid some breakfast for him to take home to him on the way to the subway.

Then, I hadn't seen him all week because he was babysitting, except one day he drove me to my office.

And another day he came over when the kids were asleep for a booty call. I asked him to bring me something to eat from his house because I was at his apartment to meet him, which is in the middle of nowhere, and he said he felt like he was dating a hobo!! OMG He doesn't pay a cent to support me and all I asked for was a sandwich like he makes his kids every day! A hobo?! And he said it twice, as if he was trying to get a reaction. I let it go.

So I didn't feel like sleeping with him, especially since he kept stressing the fact that he had to get back home soon. I'm sorry a 14 year old and a 10 year old who have been put to bed should be absolutely fine alone.

He tried to have sex with me, but I didn't feel like it because he was going to just leave after. He said how about if I promise to stay and cuddle you until you fall asleep? I said I really don't feel like it. To be honest his hobo comment had hurt my feelings. I don't think I ask for much especially given all I do for him.

So he sulked and just left saying something rude about how he'd brought me food and I wasn't being nice.

I felt bad and gave him lots of kisses and told him I missed him but I just wasn't in the mood that night.

Then I texted him on Tuesday to ask if he'd like to go out on Friday, he said no he was with his friends. I was a bit hurt but I said ok have fun. Then he texted "And Saturday I'm watching a game with my buddies and Sunday I have football tickets".


So even though his wife gets back on Sunday, he's chosen to go to a football game rather than take me out, or even just spend an evening with me.

On top of it, we're going away for a week (cheap vacation, I paid half) week after next. We leave on the Monday, so he will spend next weekend with his kids. So that means I will see him maybe 3 evenings before we go away after really not having seen him for 10 days... And then go spend a week with him on vacation - where I know he'll just want to have sex all the time. It's not that I don't enjoy it I guess it's just that I feel that's all he wants from me.

One more thing I'd like to mention that I think is relevant is the sex. He likes to dominate (strangle, spank, pull hair etc). I don't mind that but I have never let anyone do that to me before and I kinda think when you're so intimate with someone like that then they should show you respect in real life but I feel his attitude in the bedroom carries into every day life.

Then we had a fight over all this and he said I do nothing for him and he could've paid a whore and a maid to do what I did for him! I show him love and care every single day and was just trying to explain that I feel the majority of his love and care is directed elsewhere and that this hurts and maybe he could be a bit more considerate of my feelings when making plans.

I think he can't balance his life properly, and I don't think it's fair that I get used as "a maid and a whore" and don't get much time and effort in return really while he spoils his kids and ex wife. That's all I'm saying.

Does anyone think I'm unjustified to be upset?

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Me thinks you need a new BF.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 12:26PM
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Sounds like you have made a couple of bad choices in boy friends The age difference alone is to much.Dou want kids ever? hes had his and doubt he'd want more.
Find some one your age..

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 12:49PM
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Lol - I agree. It's hard though because we do get along when we are together and he says it'll get better in time, I'll get to meet his kids, he loves me and wants to marry me and have a kid with me too - but I think it's just what I want to hear because if he were genuine he wouldn't behave like this.
I just think the whole dinner thing was a warning of what's to come. That was the first time it had been me and the kids kinda together in a way, and he showed me that they come first to the point where I miss out on dinner. If it starts that way, it'll just go on that way. That's my opinion, and I think I deserve better - right?
Has anyone else experienced this kinda thing?

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 12:49PM
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I think MY first clue is a man that makes $500k a year is living in an apartment and makes you pay 1/2 of a vacation, expects you to pay for meals and cab fees and buy his kid breakfast.... I think someone is either being lied to or taken as a fool. And that person is you. I would definitly be seeking another relationship. I'm not going to knock your age difference because I was 26 when I met my husband and he was 35. I'm 31 now and he is 40 and we are enough opposite and the same it balances... But it's how we are. Age doesn't have to be a huge factor but it depends on the person.

You said 'wife' at one point in time. Is your BF still legally married?

I would honestly not even start concerning yourself with what this woman has going on... It will just infuriate you and it shouldn't. You will be miserable as long as you let yourself feel 'jealous' over what she has and you don't.

Wouldnt you feel better about yourself if you focused on supporting yourself and doing for yourself rather than getting so worked up about someone else not spending their money on you? Your BF does not have a financial obligation to you but he does have one to his children and to his wife. If he makes a lot of money like you say, she most likely receives alimony. Even at 1/2 of his salary, he should be able to still live a very comfy lifestyle. He should be able to pay for a maid and a cook and a whore if he wants. But why, when he gets it for free from you?

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 2:58PM
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"Even at 1/2 of his salary, he should be able to still live a very comfy lifestyle. He should be able to pay for a maid and a cook and a whore if he wants. But why, when he gets it for free from you? "

If he loves you, he would want to feed you. Food is love. Kids come first, but if he couldn't hold out any food for you he should have made something in the meantime. A bowl of canned chicken soup and a grilled cheese are simple and loving. If a friend were coming over to my house and I said I had food for them I'd make sure to scratch up at least a cheese/cracker/fruit plate or noodles with butter. He simply didn't care.

He didn't care.

He didn't care.

He doesn't care if you are fed.

He doesn't care if you are lonely.

He doesn't care if you are broke.

He doesn't care that you are cleaning for him. Anyone could fill that role.


You seem like a lovely person. 27 is so young. Believe me. I have six years and a second marriage on you.

Save some money, take an adventure. If you enjoy the sex, keep having it, but it doesn't sound like you do.

This was all said with love, honey. Wake up and smell the boat fumes. He's on the yacht and you're getting splinters on your butt from the dock.

See, he only has one advantage over you and that's years. And you'll catch up soon enough and his advantage will be valueless.

(ps, I wouldn't leave a 14 and 10 year old asleep in the house to get a booty call either)

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 3:23PM
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I said wife by accident.
It's not really about the money - it's about the time and care. I try to give as much as I can to show him I love him and care about him.
Unfortunately dates and activities cost money, and he gives those things to everyone and not me. I think he shows his care with his money, buying his family whatever they want (guitars, drum sets, holidays) and not even covering my cab fare to his house upset me. I should also mention that he refuses to take public transport because "it smells", but it's ok for me to after spending the night with him? I take offense.
I'm really short of cash, I can support myself but there's little left over for extras. I do chip in with groceries for us both. I do all his housework and laundry. I think he could be more appreciative.
I am independent and do support myself, I just feel he could be a little more generous given that I'm the only one in his life doing my best to make his life easy and run smoothly. I was more upset that on top of it all he calls me a hobo for asking for a sandwich, and putting his kids before me even over a pizza slice. That's my real issue. I mention what he gives his wife to illustrate the huge divide, I don't care if she gets that - I feel she should get whatever he is willing to give her - but he should consider my feelings when making plans and I do think any man who makes considerably more than his gf shouldn't think twice about taking her on nice dates, but that's just me.
I wouldn't care if it weren't serious, but he says he wants to marry me and be with me forever. I just don't like being last on the list of priorities AND seeing everyone else in his life being treated better than me.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 3:32PM
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Thanks Silversword, I needed to hear that because that's exactly how I feel. He didn't care. And yet he claims to love me and all the rest and cries when I try to leave him...

I was babysitting in my neighborhood when I was 14 so I guess I feel his kids would be ok for a few hours without him, especially if he put them to bed and told the eldest he might go out, but I know every child is different.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 3:38PM
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"I think MY first clue is a man that makes $500k a year is living in an apartment and makes you pay 1/2 of a vacation, expects you to pay for meals and cab fees and buy his kid breakfast.... I think someone is either being lied to or taken as a fool."

Yeah, something does not add up. How did the two of you meet?

While sometimes age difference is not that big a deal, it sounds like in THIS situation a 43 year old is taking advantage of a 27 year old.

I noticed several red flags:
- "took me out with his friends (mostly to show me off) then kinda stopped inviting me out as much"
- Wants you to sneak out before the kids wake up - is he hiding you from the kids?
- "he said I do nothing for him and he could've paid a whore and a maid to do what I did for him!"
- "And then go spend a week with him on vacation - where I know he'll just want to have sex all the time. It's not that I don't enjoy it I guess it's just that I feel that's all he wants from me."

You feel all he wants from you is sex - and you're probably right. :(

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 3:55PM
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He's living in the apartment because it's close to his kids and he wasn't sure he wanted to commit to the responsibility of another house. It is a 2 bedroom penthouse and it's very nice.
I met his youngest son that night at his house, it was the first time I'd been there and he had a few friends over so I just blended in. Cute kid, we chatted and he really liked me.
With the vacation - I offered to pay half because he offered to pay for a "cheap and dirty" last-minute, all-inclusive holiday and I felt that if I was going to take a week off work I'd rather go somewhere nicer, so it was a compromise. But I wasn't that impressed that he accepted my offer with no hesitation! Or that he thought a cheap holiday was a good idea in the first place...
We met at a bar, he seemed sweet, we hung out and did fun stuff like bike rides and things like that. I only slept with him after about 3 weeks of hanging out just about every day. He'd always be at my front door every day after work to take me out somewhere, or to his place or whatever, then although he now says he loves me and wants to marry me, all the nice stuff is gone. It's like I get to be his wife with all the duties and none of the perks.
He says I'm petty, demanding and unreasonable so I just wanted to know what other people thought.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 4:11PM
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Honey, Layla. Sweetie. You may be petty, demanding and unreasonable. Who knows?

I don't.

What I do know is that his behavior bothers you. It doesn't seem fair or loving or kind or equal to what you give him. Based on what you say, I agree.

Just because he has money doesn't mean he wants to spend it. My DH and I had a hilarious honeymoon (as did many of my friends) because we were broke and had kids to juggle. Nothing wrong with cheap and dirty if you're on the same page. Sounds like you had expectations that he didn't. Could be a difference in travel style & priorities. Could be he's a tightwad. Could be you think he should be spending a little more on you...

Men change. My DH hiked a lot more when he was wooing me. But I helped him with his show car a lot more too, lol.

Sounds like you need to move out. Let him court you if he wants you. If he doesn't...

Because otherwise you'll be the pouty tantrum never get enough person. And that's really no fun at all. Find a guy who makes you laugh, rubs your feet and thinks your burps are cute. Find a guy whose friends YOU want to be friends with too, who have girlfriends you like. Find a guy who has no real money but will ask you on a picnic on a bedsheet, split a loaf of bread, an apple and a hunk of cheese and the cheapest bottle of wine with you and thank you for being in his life.

Find that guy. This one's all used-up.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:02PM
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UGH Layla, he s playing you!!!Read your post over and over again, and pretend this is happening to your sister, or a friend..You are settling for crumbs..A few cheap gifts and trips? I think you are kind of blinded by his money..I think he s stringing you along by saying you ll get married..If he treats you this shabby at 6 months in, I shudder at a year or two when the "Booty Call thrill wears off for him..Get rid of him ASAP, stop letting him use you for cleaning cooking sex, everything!!! Age difference doesnt bother me, I ve dated older men, but they sure never treated me like this!!! You may need to read some self esteem books or something to see why you are selling yourself so cheap to this loser!! HOBO, I d have a few names for him, not as tame as that. Please move on....

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:06PM
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So ya'll met in a bar. I'm wondering how it was you found out how much he makes? I bet this is how it went down. 43 year old notices hot young chick at the bar, so he impresses her by telling her he makes $500K a year. He wines and dines her for three weeks until he gets some.

You say it's not about the money, but I think it is.

"I wasn't that impressed that he accepted my offer with no hesitation! Or that he thought a cheap holiday was a good idea in the first place..."

"I don't count a few cheap meals on the fly"

"I do think any man who makes considerably more than his gf shouldn't think twice about taking her on nice dates, but that's just me."

He makes a ton of money and you expect him to spend at least some of that money on you. I don't think you're being unreasonable. You do a lot for him and expect something in return.

You may be a gold digger, you may not be. I don't know you. At any rate it sounds like you like money to be spent on you and thought this guy, that makes $500K a year would spoil you rotten. But that didn't happen.

I bet this guy uses his salary as a way to get into younger women's pants.
"he kinda almost proudly told me that his wife had never cleaned a bathroom their entire relationship"

That's his way of saying that could be you someday. That and his whole "I want to marry you" ploy. I notice some guys will flash around how much money they make just to get into some girl's pants, and usually they find someone who falls for it. One guy I dated bragged about how much money he made and how much money he spent on his previous girlfriends. I fell for it, thinking "gosh if that's how he treats his girlfriends I want to be his girlfriend!" It wasn't until later I realized while he did have money, he did not want to spend it on me.

"I wouldn't care if it weren't serious, but he says he wants to marry me and be with me forever."

Don't believe anything a guy tells you, only believe what he does. Don't you realize he's just telling you what you want to hear? You're 27, you're young, you're hot, and he's not! Girl, find someone who will treat you the way you want to be treated.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:06PM
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I totally agree, thanks!
I just thought he was being unfair comparatively, and not just a little unfair but kinda disrespectfully unfair. I mean we're talking about pizza and a cab fare home, not really high-maintenance stuff.
And the examples above are just what happened recently, there were more incidents.
I date guys regardless of their financial situation (like the guy that stole all my money lol) and I guess that's what made me feel worse because even my penny-less student boyfriend a few years back would bring me flowers every week and make me breakfast on Sundays. I loved that! And I looked after him like I did this guy too, I can't help but take care of men, I like it. I just expect some consistency in my treatment from them in return, whatever that might be. I had another boyfriend my age who would tell me stories as I fell asleep and run me baths when I got home - awesome! I'm not a gold digger, I guess there was just nothing consistent in this guy's behavior.
It isn't about the money so much as a reflection of his character and that he doesn't show me he cares but does for others. I don't expect the same treatment as his flesh and blood and ex, just something respectfully in the area of the ballpark.
I'd do cheap and dirty with a guy my age - but not with a guy 16 years older than me, how bad does that look?! lol
Anyways - thanks everyone for your advice and your thoughts. I would date a man with kids again but I'll be more careful next time to be a bit less helpful, I guess, especially at the start. A divorced man's situation is his own to handle, thinking he'd appreciate me for helping by cooking and cleaning for him etc might have been stupid. He just lost respect, even though I thought it'd have the opposite effect! I don't think I'll change though, I'll just keep doing my thing until someone is a good match and sticks :)

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:26PM
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Ok that gives me more information than your first post. He sounds like an inconsiderate a$$ and doesn't care about things but buying the people he has to. And that bothers you as it should. He has you begging for his attention and at his beck and call so he doesn't have to buy you anymore. The chase is over.. It also sounds like you need him more than you want him. That is just how it sounds. After 6 months of dating my Dh met my Dd. He was not yet helpIng me with bills or every day needs. He was buying me things that I wanted without me having to ask. My Dh was spoiling my Dd at that point because financially he could. He also was still very much in the infatuated stage and was trying to impress me so he did things (financially) that he doesnt now because our finances are together. Not only financially though, emotionally. He treated me in a 'sweep you off your feet' kind of way. After only six months, I'm concerned why your guy is no longer interested in sweeping you off your feet?? Why he is treating you like a 'piece of a$$' and not the woman of his dreams, the woman he can't live without, the woman who he would do anything for, including sacrificing HIS last bite of pizza for... If you aren't seeing these types of feelings from him in the very early stages of your relationship, I would say RUN RUN as fast as you can and don't look back. This is not about his kids or him being a father, this is about a 43 year old man that apparently never learned to court a lady nor how to respect one.... What does he do for a living if you don't mind me asking? I'm just curious. Some men are just so emotionless on the outside (women are too) and their careers are a mirror image of them.

I don't know you and I'm not sure what more of your situation you should share or what you haven't shared but it honestly sounds like this guy is having fun with you. He is careful not to introduce you to his kids bc he is careful with his kids. He is a great dad. Loves his boys and spends all the time he can with him. But he likes to have sleepytime fun with you which is fine if that is what you are signing up for. He doesn't mind nor does he expect you to clean up after him or do his laundry or cook meals for him, but there you are eager as all get out to play house-y with him and he is ok to accept that from you since you aren't expecting anything in return.
Do you get what I'm saying? Sneaking around? Not being around when the kids are around? This is wonderful. Trust me-- I applaud him for keeping the two relationships seperate but I have to wonder-- why? If he wants to marry you, why the sneaking around? ... Because he isn't serious when he says he wants to marry you, he is keeping you happy. A man in love would feed his lady, pay her cab fare, would not suggest a nasty subway if the Nasty subway is too nasty for him, and would not hesitate to show off his love to his family and include her with his children if he was absolutely sure he was ready to get married.

I hope mkroopy pops in for a man's point of view on this. I'd be interested to see what he has to say!!

And as far as leaving a 10 and 14 year old home alone asleep so dad can get some booty... I wouldn't do it for 1 and i actually don't know anyone in my personal life that would be ok with that either... Those ages are too young to be left alone at night while sleeping. And if you loved him more than you love his wallet, you would understand that the ages are too young and it's inappropriate. You don't have to be an experienced parent of teens to know that...

I also wanted to point out that if you are seeing trouble now, hang on for the ride. This man is 43 and is not on the up hill battle. He is more than likely set in his ways and if you are hoping he is going to change for you, you are delusional.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:39PM
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Thanks for your thoughts - that's what I was feeling - chase over no need to put in effort.
The thing is he did mind if I didn't do all the cleaning and stuff, sometimes he'd get home early and I wasn't finished and he'd look around with a frown.
I wasn't keen to meet the kids right away as I think kids need more than a year to accept their parents' separation.
As for the leaving them alone - like I said, I was babysitting at 14 so due to my experience, I didn't think it was a big deal. His kid looks 20, is taller than his dad already and seems quite mature. He's allowed to go out on his own in town until 11 (I wasn't allowed to do that until 18) I know that doesn't mean it's necessarily ok to leave him bc I don't know the kid's personally, but that was just my thinking. Anyway he had no problem leaving them while he went to his buddy's to hang out. My point was that he was using the kids as an excuse to get away bc I wasn't putting out. If I was putting out he'd have been with me for hours! lol

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 6:53PM
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Layla, Dont change yourself, its OK to want to take care of someone, BUT it has to be reciprocal!!!Find another guy like the one who ran your bath. Sounds like you know what its like to be treated well, you dont have a pattern of choosing the wrong guys, forget the money and go for the solid gold of somebody caring about what Layla needs, not frowning because you didnt clean enough.PS its a whole lot easier at your age to look around for a guy with no kids...You ll save yourself a whole lotta pain and sleepless nights....

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 7:05PM
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likes to watch a lot of Mad Men... Also a red flag. Lol.
Maybe you're right, maybe he was just good at selling himself as the perfect partner, but no good at delivering the goods!

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 7:07PM
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I find it hard when guys do the whole sweep you off your feet thing and then 3 or 4 months later you're like, who is this guy sleeping next to me? I don't know him at all, he's not cool! lol
I was just unlucky this time, that's all.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 7:12PM
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If I had a nickel for every wrong guy I chose in my lifetime, I d be as rich as your soon to be (I hope ) EX...

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 7:22PM
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I hate to sound like a prude, or like I'm insinuating you're a slut but if that's what the pattern is, maybe you should not be sleeping next to guys you've only known 3-4 months.

Especially ones you meet in a bar.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 8:09PM
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My Dh gets mad if I keep cleaning once he gets home. He doesn't want me cleaning when we should be spending time together.

You are awesome to want to give his kids time to get used to the divorce. Way too many parents rush introducing their new love to their kids and it's way too soon for the kids to adjust which cause tension and friction especially in teenagers.

Boys are not as mature as girls at 14. He may seem mature to you but is he mature enough to stay home with a 10 yr old that is not?
Like you said, sounds like it was an excuse.

It just sounds like this guy likes you enough but not enough to respect you and fall in love with you. Although it could take time. My ex never really treated me like a princess until I popped out his first born but it only lasted a couple of years. That's why he is the ex now...

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 8:13PM
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Interesting...I don't know how long you're supposed to wait before sleeping with someone... I usually give in after 3 or 4 weeks of solid dating with someone I see myself being happy with long-term. Guys are really impatient and usually aren't interested if you keep them waiting longer than that. My friends feel the same and do the same as me, usually faster actually. But maybe I could try holding off longer. I don't know these days guys seem to expect it pretty fast. It is definitely something to think about though.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 9:13PM
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Sounds like your being used and abused..He wants you for one thing..I'd move on.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 10:03PM
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Yikes.... If they aren't willing to wait, then they aren't worth it.

I actually don't know how long one should wait to sleep with another person -- I've dated many men I never slept with and I married two men that I slept with (not as quickly as three weeks) but I guess it is just what is comfortable for you. I think if you feel that you have to sleep with a man to keep them interested in you then you have some self esteem issues and maybe you are meeting the wrong kind of guys.

My parents met in a bar 30 years ago and are blissfully happy (lots happier now that we are grown) I'm speaking of my mom and stepdad. Every man that I met in a bar didn't pan out and wasn't really looking for a relationship. I met my first husband through my mom and then ended up working with him for a while before we started dating and my Dh an I met at work. I'm not saying you can't meet great guys in bars but maybe you should try a different location like a library or a charity event or ask some friends to introduce you to someone that is single and closer to your age that is looking for what you are looking for. Bar meeting to me screams sex and one night stands.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 10:32PM
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I don't know either Layla, and what do I know. I was married and had a three year old when I was 27. About to get a divorce. I've had sex with two guys in the past 11 years.

My ex-husband, after I told him I wasn't interested in a relationship (let alone sex), nicely courted me for 8 months, and my current DH also waited quite a long time.

Depends on how long they want the relationship to last. If they can't understand that you're not willing to share the most intimate part of yourself without knowing them well enough to know they are going to cherish feeding you (at least until you break up) then they're not worth it anyway.

I'm not trying to come down on you. Please know I've made enough mistakes of my own. But take it from a girl with enough daddy issues to sink California... you need some self esteem.

There are good men out there.

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 10:39PM
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I think everyone relating their very chaste pasts will not help this situation....Agreed, there are some very good men out there....But timelines are different for every couple....No need for anyone to feel bad because their personal deal doesnt fit yours....

    Bookmark   October 28, 2011 at 11:21PM
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One thing I'm wondering about is, if his former wife never cleaned a bathroom in her marriage, who did? Did they have a maid? If so, why does he still not have a maid? Or was it a previous girlfriend, who he also strung along with stories of how he was going to marry here when the time was right?
I agree with the others, he's just using you for your cleaning abilities and booty calls. I mean, you say he is displeased if you haven't done all the cleaning or aren't in the mood for a quickie. That doesn't sound to me like someone who loves you, it sounds more like someone who's PO'd that the help isn't doing her bit. And he doesn't even "pay" you in kind by feeding you or taking you out. You're not just cheap help, you're free help.
Run away, do not pass "go", do not collect $200. Find a better guy. Or no guy at all, be complete without one. IME women who _have_ to have a man in their lives tend to attract the louses (somehow "lice" doesn't seem right in this context) whereas the women who aren't actively looking attract the better class of men.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 5:13AM
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why on earth are u letting someone use u for sex? is the sex that mind blowing?

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 10:29AM
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Lol dalda, the sex is not that mind-blowing. He likes degrading sex, as mentioned in my first post...

They did have a maid. and his ex-wife didn't even work.
I don't mind doing things I just expect to be treated better. I feel sorry for his wife, I'm sure she had a nice lifestyle but it's not that that really matters. He doesn't know how to do special things for a woman and it's always all about him. I think he gave me one massage our entire relationship, but he asked for them all the time. Things like that. Anyway, I feel so relieved not to be with him anymore! I can devote my time to myself and not worry about if his hockey bag is packed, or his shirts are clean, or his coffee is running out, or what I'll cook him for dinner (he was picky), or what I should dress up in when he gets home (he complained the one time I was wearing my track pants) or what I can do next to please him.
I shoulda run when he kept bringing up the fact that I finished the last can of grape soda one time...
Months later he's still bringing it up and accusing me of being selfish. But what's worse is I actually texted him and asked if I could have it and he said yes and I said thanks, don't forget to pick up some more for your kids before the weekend though. And apparently he didn't and they complained there was no grape soda for them...and this was my fault!
These things are small, but they add up. And anyway, as a kid, I would never berate my parents if there wasn't everything I wanted in the fridge! How spoiled.
They also complained to their mom that they were too hot at his apartment and their duvets were too thick! She wrote him an email about it and he showed it to me and accused me of messing with the air-conditioning. Yes, I did turn it down, but he's free to turn it up again at any time, the thermostat is digital and right there for everyone to see! It's not like I'm sneaking around trying to make everyone hot and uncomfortable, I just don't like to live in an ice box!
Argh! Yes, glad to be done with it - it would only have gotten worse.
I'm going to try dating men for longer and holding out on the sex. If they don't hang around for very long then that's their loss. I think it is a problem when you're attractive - and that's not to be conceited - you do have to be super careful bc you attract more of the smooth-talking jerks that want you for one thing. You try to tell them you're not that kind of girl, you're educated, sweet and smart, you try to earn their respect - but that's not what they're interested in. They saw your pretty face and your hot body first and they don't care about the rest. I think it does lead to self-esteem issues, you feel like you don't deserve better than some guy who keeps wanting sex with you for longer than a few months! I'm going to try the holding off thing :) I got put off it though because the three times I tried it, the guys dumped me in a really horrible way and I was quite young and probably overly hurt by their actions. I tried it last year with a sweet lawyer I met through friends. We went away for a weekend and when I wouldn't sleep with him he sulked and cried into his pillow because "I didn't want him the way he wanted me". Why do I keep getting these losers?!
Still, I do think holding out is the better plan, see how the guy handles not getting sex as soon as he'd like, see how he treats me - thanks everyone!

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 12:13PM
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Dotz, I'm not saying I'm chaste or that my past is chaste. I'm saying that having sex with men after meeting them in a bar three weeks ago doesn't seem to be working for her.

I think there is nothing wrong with the original poster except that she needs a little self esteem so that jerkwads like this 40-ish midlife crisis loser don't take advantage of her.

It sounds like she's pretty together... who cares if the guy wants it? The guys have wanted it since the dawn of time. It's for the girls to be exclusive, because we have our hearts tied up in sex. A lot of men don't. It's biology. I just don't want to see her getting her heart all mangled because some guy is getting sex and treating her like dirt.

Layla... you shouldn't go away with a man unless you are willing to have sex, or you should say it up front. Going away means sex is implied. IMHO.

It's not a game if you are playing for a real relationship. Are you looking for THE person you want to be with, or A person you could be with? There's a big difference. And that should weed out a lot of those not looking for the same thing.

    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 4:36PM
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A kind and decent man who is in love with a woman doesn't treat her the way this man treats you.
Which tells me - quite convincingly - that either:

1 - He isn't really a kind and decent man, or
2 - He isn't really in love with you, or
3 - Most likely - both 1 & 2


    Bookmark   October 29, 2011 at 7:41PM
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Silver--' About to get a divorce. '

Are you getting divorced or did you mean at 27????

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 1:03AM
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Silver, I agree, I think maybe Layla is selling herself short, has low self esteem, and could try a little introspection on why she keeps finding losers. But still, I dont think there is a sex timeline.I read somewhere the average is on the third date, which surprises the heck out of me.Also I dont see the horror of meeting a man in a bar. Only dated 2 men before I got married, met both of them in a bar.Both lovely gentlemen..People seem to want to make that sound trashy..I dont think thats the case today...

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 11:33AM
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No it's not trashy BUT the advice was if she is meeting men at bars that are not interested in anything but sex, maybe she should find a new place to meet men... I also agree there is no timeline on sex, it depends on the person and what they are comfortable with. Each situation after it ends should be a lesson learned. If she doesn't like how something made her feel she should remember that next time and learn from it.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 1:30PM
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Myfam- at 27. :)

Dotz, I agree. OP's comment that:

"We met at a bar, he seemed sweet, we hung out and did fun stuff like bike rides and things like that. I only slept with him after about 3 weeks of hanging out just about every day. He'd always be at my front door every day after work to take me out somewhere, or to his place or whatever, then although he now says he loves me and wants to marry me, all the nice stuff is gone. It's like I get to be his wife with all the duties and none of the perks."

"I usually give in after 3 or 4 weeks of solid dating with someone I see myself being happy with long-term. Guys are really impatient and usually aren't interested if you keep them waiting longer than that."


"I find it hard when guys do the whole sweep you off your feet thing and then 3 or 4 months later you're like, who is this guy sleeping next to me? I don't know him at all, he's not cool!"

These tell me a story.And I think 27 is that in-between age where people feel you should settle down.That doesn't mean settling. And that's all I hope Layla takes away from what I have to say.

Don't settle.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 9:48PM
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myfampg wrote "I hope mkroopy pops in for a man's point of view on this. I'd be interested to see what he has to say!! "....LOL now my opinion is actually being requested...I feel honored.

OK I've been busy dealing with 18" of snow and my kids and girlfriend all weekend so I am just seeing this post most of what has been written, probably missed a few I'll just offer some bullet points.

- I think the OP is sort of a combination of "rebound-girl" and an "arm piece". I highly doubt, from what I read, that he has any serious feelings for her, or long term plans with her. Nothing would have made the divorce process less painful than having a 20 something attractive babe to parade around town, and also have her cook and clean for you. But even most "high earners" who were reaping the benefits from this situation would have the common courtesy to not ask her to pay for 1/2 a vacation or take a train home instead of paying for a cab.

- despite what you gals think, it's not just about sex...believe me, guys in there 40's making that type of coin who are "available" and even moderately attractive and personable have women fawning all over them....I've witnessed it with a good friend of mine...who also makes that type of's disgusting (I think i was just I think it's more a "whole lifestyle" mixed with someone who cooks and cleans, who looks good when out on the town, and (most importantly) someone who up to this point has put up with him not having to put in too much effort in getting her to stay around. It's a win-win for him....

- my gut tells me his saying he "wants a future with her and for her to meet the kids and to get married" and all that is just his way of buying some time with her, since the current state of things benefits him in many ways.

- just the fact that he could even think of saying something like "he said I do nothing for him and he could've paid a whore and a maid to do what I did for him"...pretty much should tell the OP where his intentions really are...that is sick.

Hey...when you are an available guy and make big*t it's a "buyers market"...he doesn't have to try too hard. I'd ask the OP this: if he made 50K instead of 500K, would she have put up with half this sh*t? I doubt it. And that's not gold-digging's just easier to forgive bad behavior in a relationship when the other person has "one up" on you. I had this in the other direction...I'm pretty much an average-joe looking dude, 6' tall about 200 lbs...not bad shape but could lose a few, hair is a thing of the past...but my ex was (and still is...ugh) one of those very attractive people that men drool over and women tend to hate...I often think that when we were dating, if she hadn't been so attractive if I would have realized that she was an incredibly self-centered person with no interest other than looking in the mirror and just not a great match for me.

I also do agree with some of the comments here about the OP probably having self-esteem issues....anyone who is 27 and feels it necessary to chime in that the "but I look 19" and go on about how attractive she is on one hand, while putting up with this type of treatment on the other hand....well that just screams self-esteem issues i think.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 10:16PM
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Thanks for answering - I appreciate your point of view!
I think I do have self-esteem issues.
And I do seem to date losers, lol.
I've dated men with and without money, they get the same treatment from me. I will do anything to please my man. I don't expect much in return but a level of respect and care and consistency.
I did think he was getting a lot out being with me and could have been nicer, not necessarily money-wise but even some reciprocity on the massages I gave him would have been something :)
The looking 19 comment - I guess that's because he was so happy every time I got ID'd. Big ego boost for him.
I just wanted to know if my feelings were unreasonable, since he had me brainwashed to think they were - and everyone here has assured me I was right so I'm glad about that because I pride myself on being a good person and would hate it if I was somehow being a brat.
I will try better next time to suss a guy out before I let things get too serious, and I'll try to find someone who cares for me genuinely.

I don't know why I feel I'm being demanding when I try to get a guy to be treat me right, it feels so awkward to me - I feel he should do so of his own accord, I guess.
Also, I'm afraid that if I try to say something, the guy will dump me and I'll be alone and hurt...

I don't think because I'm attractive I deserve the royal treatment, I never want to be seen as that self-centered pretty girl who thinks she's entitled to anything and everything, because that isn't me, and so I go in the opposite direction and try to compensate for that stigma by showing I'm not like those girls, but that's getting me no where!

From now on I'll have to start picking more wisely to begin with and maybe hold out on giving so much until I know he wants to treat me equally well.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 10:48PM
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I totally agree that if a guy invites you away then sex is implied, but this was different because I'd paid for it all as a birthday present to my mom and she was sick so I invited him instead. He knew the situation. In that case, I think I should be allowed to call the shots - otherwise it's a bit double standard-ish.
I might have slept with him if he had been really sweet and charming, but I didn't feel he was... That was a whole other story... Sigh. He was into anal (I refuse, personal choice), there was anal porn in 4 different windows on his mac laptop...and he'd searched for people who looked like us doing it (blonde fu#&ing brunette in the ass). Just turned me right off LOL. AHHHH why am I so CURSED??!! lol

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 11:04PM
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"I don't know why I feel I'm being demanding when I try to get a guy to be treat me right"

See this is where you still have it a little wrong. You, as a person, have no right to demand anything of a BF/spouse/or any other person you come across in life. All you have the right to do is judge the person's behavior, and see if it satisfies what you want out of that particular relationship. Then after assessing the situation, you DO have the right to say "sorry this is not working for me" and terminate (or change the nature of) the relationship.

Trying to change anyone's behavior (which is exactly what demanding anything from someone, other than your kids, which is what you are supposed to do) is always a mistake. But lots of people still make it.....

Good luck, you sound like any good man would be thrilled to have you in his life. This guy is not that man, unfortunately.

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 11:05PM
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Good point, Mkroopy.
But by demand I don't mean "do this or else", I meant simply pointing out what I didn't like and expect him to respect my feelings enough to make a change. At least to give him the chance to do so before I terminated the relationship. I thought communication and compromise was important in a relationship? I was just trying to communicate my needs and suggest he took them into account a bit more...

    Bookmark   October 30, 2011 at 11:23PM
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Communication and compromise are important to long term relationships, Layla. It's the key to long term. But there is a major difference between telling someone they must change vs communicating/compromise.

A very basic example in a simple to grip scenerio: You like to cook, make a big pot of chili. Your recipe of choice is full of beef and big onion chunks with super hot peppers. The other person eating with you dislikes chunky onions and hates super hot peppers. Now do the two of you discuss this and perhaps get a bowl of chili to the table that suits both of you or is it 'I made this d*mn chili for you and you don't even appreciate my effort, if you loved me you'd just eat it the way I like to cook it.'

One way would be demanding they 'change' and eat the stuff whether their taste buds like it or not. It's kinda like 'you will be the one to change your taste if you want to eat at my table'. Another way would be to compromise. Omit the super hot peppers and add your 'hot' indivdually to your bowl leaving their bowl free of burning off their taste buds, perhaps using onion powder over the chunky onions blah blah. Another way would be to make your chili the way you personally like it and having bowls at times the other person is not going to be home and not serving the chili when that person is going to be eating with you.

The point of the chili actually turns into 'you change, not me' vs 'we communicate and find a compromise that works for both of us'. If neither person is willing to listen to the other person, hear them out and try to find a happy middle both can live with and enjoy, then the couple are probably unsuited for each other and only make each other miserable prolonging a onesided relationship that will not last.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 7:55AM
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Hi LaylaP. You've already gotten lots of great advice, so I'll just add this.

Dating loser after loser has not been a complete waste of time. You are learning many traits and characteristics of men you don't want to be with - and the losers will get easier and easier for you to spot. Believe me, I spent decades with various losers, LOL! I understand just how charming and manipulative some guys can be in the beginning - and how they can string you along against your better judgment.

As for this particular guy - absolute scumball, no question. Honey, there's no "communicating your needs" with this one - he doesn't care. Not about you, not about his ex, not about his kids. I'd bet my paycheck that the ex-wife isn't living the life of luxury that he pretends - at least not on his dime; nor are the kids. You're being played, lied to, and used. The sooner you get out the better.

You deserve better than this.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 10:11AM
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"I will do anything to please my man." And there, I think, is the root of your problem and why you seem to attract losers.
I'm not saying you shouldn't do nice things for the man you're dating. But, it should be give and take for both, not "you give and he takes". And don't do things you're not comfortable with. You mention the (now, hopefully ex) boyfriend likes "degrading sex". And you weren't entirely happy with it. So don't do it! So what if you get dumped by him? You've been dumped by a jerk who wants to hurt you! Dodged a bullet there, girl!
Similarly guys who want to get you into the sack ASAP in the relationship. If they respected you, they would wait until *you* are ready and not pester and cry. Again, if they dump you, you are only being dumped by a jerk who is only interested in you for sex. If they are interested in *you*, they will be content to wait. (Maybe not forever :-) but a lot longer than 3 weeks.) So again you dodge a bullet.
Value yourself and others will too.

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 1:07PM
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Thanks - everyone's advice is great and it's really helped me a lot to make sense of things in my life.
It's just a matter of accepting that no matter how much I love someone and how much I've invested myself in them, it's ok to walk away if I'm not getting the treatment I'd like back in return. I can try to talk first, and try to reasonably discuss what I'm not happy with and listen to their point of view but if their reaction is to hang up, or be rude and dismissive, or not listen then they don't care about me and I just have to accept that even if it hurts. Or I have to settle for less than I want from a relationship, which I don't want to do.
Walking away doesn't make me a bad, mean, disloyal person. I'm just looking after me and "dodging bullets". Makes sense.
It also doesn't mean that I won't find someone who is happy to have me as a gf and treats me nicely. I just have to be more careful. I've been a bit naive and trusting and too happy to believe it when a guy says he loves me rather than really look at his actions and see if it matches his words.
This is really great advice and I feel much more confident now. I don't know why I didn't understand these basics from the beginning, but it's good to know now!
Thanks so much!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 2:35PM
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Reading this post just made me text my boyfriend and tell him what a good boyfriend he is and how much I appreciate him.

You remind me a lot of me. I'm 31 now, but I dated a slew of guys who were takers while I am a giver. My ex bfs were not as bad as yours, they were actually ok guys who just didn't have it in them to be good boyfriends. I am a social worker and have dated a lot of "fixer uppers", LOL, it's in my nature. I accepted less than I deserved from a relationship hoping they would come around and actually be the kind of boyfriend I really wanted. None of them ever did.

Then, I started dating someone completely not "my type". Didn't look the my usual type, didn't act like my usual type, wasn't into the same things as my usualy type, etc. He's the best boyfriend I've ever had, we've been dating a year now. He pays for things when I'm low on cash, he walks my dog so I can sleep in, he made a REAL effort on my birthday and surprised me with something very sweet, he drives over an hour multiple times a week to spend time with me, he tells me all the time how much he appreciates and loves me.

I'm not a big Dr. Phil fan, but I've come to rely on something he says all the time: "When someone shows you who they are, believe them!".

Your boyfriend is an @ss, pure and simple. He treats you like crap despite all the nice things you do for him. At least if you were his maid and whore you would be getting paid for it! Right now you're doing it for free with no appreciation or reciprocation.

Be single and happy and the right guy will come along. It has nothing to do with how attractive or not attractive you are. Actually I've seen a direct correlation with guys who think they are soooo good looking and being shallow pieces of crap. Don't settle for any less than a guy head over heels about you who shows you constantly how much you mean to him. Try dating guys you usually don't, maybe you'll be surprised by what you find!

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 3:03PM
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If someone EVER said to me that what I do for him a maid and a whore could do...I'd be outta there no matter what I felt for him.

That is the most demeaning and disrespectful thing that could ever be said to someone! And after only 6 months of dating, at that.

And now you know why he is divorced :-)

    Bookmark   October 31, 2011 at 4:45PM
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mattie_gt said: "...he doesn't care. Not about you, not about his ex, not about his kids"

I don't understand the last part of that...I agree 100% that he doesn't care about the OP, that is very clear....but I gotta say ...from what I read, he seems very involved with his kids. I've seen nothing so far to indicate he is not at least a decent father.

These are two separate issues (caring for his kids vs. caring for OP), how he is with his kids has nothing to do with his treatment of the OP. When reading the original post I was thinking to myself "well at least he hasn't made her part of the kids' lives, because clearly she is not going to be around for too long". It's a mistake sooooooo many people with kids make when the start dating after a divorce...I think 6 months to a year minimum until the kids should meet a BF/GF....

    Bookmark   November 1, 2011 at 1:19PM
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I agree mkroopy 1000%. I thought the same thing.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2011 at 2:29PM
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I think you need to re-examine your definition of love. To 'love' someone who treats you so poorly or think someone 'loves' you yet treats you as you've conveyed could be a root of your problems.

Those who respect themselves more often receive respect in return. People can only take of advantage of you if you allow it.

    Bookmark   November 1, 2011 at 10:28PM
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