Code Question

mike_kaiser_gwMay 24, 2012

I'm putting in a laminate floor in a friend's kitchen. Moved the gas range and there's one of those "handy" boxes with a receptacle on the floor behind the range. The range doesn't require electricity and it was pretty obvious the receptacle had not been used in a while. The box wasn't secured to the floor.

I'm just curious if a box like that would meet current code (we're on NEC 2008) or any code. ;-)

While I'm writing, does anyone know if SquareD makes a breaker that's approved for use in a GE panel?

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randy427

There are ways of properly installing a floater box, but I seriously doubt that it was done correctly here.
If the cable was installed properly and is concealed behind cabinets and the range, you could attach the box and cable to the wall.
I can find no residential type SquareD circuit breakers listed for any GE panel. Why would you want to?

    Bookmark   May 25, 2012 at 7:32AM
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mike_kaiser_gw

The cable (actually it's FMC) comes up through the floor and makes a 90 into the box.

When I was looking for the breaker for the box I noticed the panel had two SquareD breakers in a GE panel. I though it was a bit odd.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2012 at 8:55AM
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Ron Natalie

It's not just odd, it's illegal.
You can probably cram a homeline square d into the GE panel (In the full slots) but gosh it ain't right.

    Bookmark   May 25, 2012 at 10:25AM
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kisu

I have heard - correct me if I'm wrong that "if" you put a dissimilar brand breaker in a Panel - not only is it against the NEC code - but also the home Insurance company can deny your claim if there is a fire.

It's a good idea to swap those out for the correct ones - they are cheap.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2012 at 7:17PM
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brickeyee

"I have heard - correct me if I'm wrong that "if" you put a dissimilar brand breaker in a Panel - not only is it against the NEC code"

You can only use equipment within it 'listing' by a stadr5ds organization, and breakers are almost never listed for anything but a single brand panel.

" - but also the home Insurance company can deny your claim if there is a fire."

Read your policy.
This is often parroted but does not appear in a typical policy.

You are insured against your own mistakes.

The insurance company WILL try and go after a licensed person who made a mistake though.
They are supposed to know better, and have their own insurance (errors and omission) that can be forced to pay.

    Bookmark   May 27, 2012 at 10:21AM
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manhattan42

"You are insured against your own mistakes."
--------
HUH?

NO ONE is insured against their own incompetance if they act negligently...especially willfully AND negligently.

Will your medical insurer pay you a medical claim if you try gall bladder surgery on yourself with a bottle of cognac for an anesthetic and a steak knife for a scalpel?

Don't think so.

No home casualty insurer is going to indemnify any owner who willfully and negligently and wrongly fits an unlisted electric device into a panel and burns his house down and kills all its inhabitants.

On the contrary, that insurer....and the municipal/civil/legal authorities...can hold one LIABLE for GROSS and WILLFUL CONDUCT for doing something they should not have done....particularly if one is required to have a professional electrical LICENSE to do work even on his own home.

Does anyone seriously believe that a person with no mechanical experience who decides to change their brakes on their family auto, does a flawed job, takes the vehicle on the road and KILLS someone is going to have their liability insurance PAY for DAMAGES?

Of course not!

Anyone who does electrical work on their own house...experienced or inexperienced...is liable for their actions if something goes wrong...and subject to the insurer REJECTING any claim if the insured, by way of incompetance, had no business working on the house in the first place!

Sheesh...
:(

    Bookmark   May 27, 2012 at 8:26PM
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brickeyee

"NO ONE is insured against their own incompetance if they act negligently...especially willfully AND negligently.

Will your medical insurer pay you a medical claim if you try gall bladder surgery on yourself with a bottle of cognac for an anesthetic and a steak knife for a scalpel?

Don't think so.

No home casualty insurer is going to indemnify any owner who willfully and negligently and wrongly fits an unlisted electric device into a panel and burns his house down and kills all its inhabitants.

On the contrary, that insurer....and the municipal/civil/legal authorities...can hold one LIABLE for GROSS and WILLFUL CONDUCT for doing something they should not have done....particularly if one is required to have a professional electrical LICENSE to do work even on his own home. "

This is so much bovine scatology and confusion as to be ridiculous.
Have you ever actually READ your insurance policies?

I highly doubt it.

They are referred to as 'all hazard' for reason, including accidents from ignorance of the owner.

Commercial policies are often far more limited, but 'errors and omissions' insurance still covers your mistakes.

It is what you HAVE the insurance for.

What clause denies coverage for the owners mistakes?

Mistakes are NOT te same as "willfully and negligently and wrongly."

Does you auto insurance not pay even if you are at fault in an accident?
Does medical insurance not pay if you accidentally injure yourself? Say you baddy maul a hand in a table saw after removing the guard.

Or chew into you leg using a chain saw.

Get real.

Violation of codes by a homeowner is almost always a civil mater, not criminal.

A landlord's actions can rise to criminal under some circumstances (and un-permitted work can be one if it results in death or injury).

If you pour gasoline in your house and light it on fire, it would be criminal arson.

If you spill gasoline in your attached shed and it accidentally catches fire you are very likely covered.

Making an ignorant mistake by not understanding the minutia of things is very unlikely to constitute gross negligence.

It sounds like you lack 'errors and omissions' insurance.

Glad I am not hiring you to do anything.
If you area licensed rofe3ssional you are at serious personal financial risk, and are placing your customers at risk also.

It is one of the reasons I guard my PE stamp carefully, and only use it appropriately.
While I could stamp of almost anything, the liability that would then attach could be very damaging.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2012 at 9:11AM
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pharkus

You can probably cram a homeline square d into the GE panel (In the full slots) but gosh it ain't right.

. . . . . . I've found homeline breakers "crammed" into just about everything. They usually seem to fit quite easily. Disturbing.

FPE, Zinsco, some of the odd CH panels, and of course QO... are no's... but all of the other common panels I've seen, I've found at least one homeline breaker in.

    Bookmark   June 8, 2012 at 8:53PM
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