I'll think of a title later! long and winded :)

pseudo_momOctober 18, 2011

Ok ladies and gent :) I need some help

I get home from work on Sunday both of the boys are here ... supposed to be at mom's ... apparently ss13 and mom had a huge blow out over who knows what. I do not ask well while they were having their blow out ss16 got involved and began screaming and hollering at his mom so the two of them ganged up on her and let her have it ... told her how they see it and were not very nice about it called her all sorts of names called her out on all her bad behaviors ... Mom has found religion again so she hosts bible study at her home on sundays well during bible study ...SS16 was using his phone so mom flipped out on him and he called her a hypocrite telling her in front of her bible study friends that she swears all the time and thinks because she prays once a week that she can say and do what she wants the other 6 days a week and that does not make her a good christian ... so her solution was to send the boys to dad's house and when they go back to her house on tues they are grounded from everything and will just have to sit in their rooms ... ok great whatever its your punishment not mine.

So I get home from realize they are here now I have to adjust my dinner to include 2 extras people ... so while I am figuring that out mom is calling the boys to tell them how rotten they are to her and that they should be apologizing and she doesn't want to see them until they do..this goes on for another hour ... dinner is finally ready ... as we sit down to dinner she is on the phone again wanting to talk to the boys again ... I say we are about to eat tell mom you will call her later.... so she starts flipping out about how she can talk to her kids any F'ing time she wants to so now ss13 begins to tell her see this is what we mean you act all nice when your bible friends are around and now you are back to swearing at us and pseudo (she didn't swear at me just to me:) ...)

So I then say ok well no phones at the table if you are going to talk to her you can wait to eat. You are not ruining my meal by arguing at the table with your mom. so after 20 minutes they join me at the table and start complaining about mom ... now here it is.... I find myself defending mom !!

It kills me ... because they are right and at 13 and 16 are telling her like it is ... you see her strategy worked she allowed the kids to talk anyway they wanted because they have a right to speak their minds and she would help them by giving them the words to use but the problem for her is ... they did/do not turn against myself and hubby ... they turned against her .... years ago you all said eventually this would happen and it has but its killing me to see them talk to anyone like that including her ... and I find myself defending her whats worse is hubby is sticking up for her and he nearly vomits all over himself while doing it ... it physically makes him sick when he gets off the phone... he ends up consoling BM because she will say things like I guess I am the worst mother in the world and why don't my children love me I buy them this and that and they are never happy etc etc...

So after dinner she is calling back to tell the kids she suspended their phone service so they can't use their phones. Because when hubby picked them up she wanted their phones and they refused to give them to her ran outside got in hubby's car and wouldn't give them to her ... when they got here hubby asked for the phones and they gave them to him .... so at 9pm she was outside sent in SD to get the phones .... then when SD got home with mom she and SD had a blow out. SD sailed into mom the way she normally sails into me ... so yesterday SD comes here and is nice a pie to me really strange like overly nice asking how my day was to nice made me suspicious was sad because I was going to work and wouldn't be able to hang out with her ..... haven't hung out with her in years but anyway...

While I was at work last night she had a complete meltdown over how her mother treats her and no matter how mean she is to me, I still like her and her mother doesn't (what world is she living in) and how she doesn't want to live with her mother anymore so she got on the phone with her mother and told her mother basically she doesn't do anything for her and she's a bad mother and all of the stuff she has daddy and pseudo bought for her and that even though she has custody of her she doesn't buy her anything doesn't even give her lunch money she has to ask her dad for it because her mom is always complaining how she is broke but yet has money for the things she likes but can even give her lunch money ... never mind buy her school clothes and its all her fault(mom's) that pseudo doesn't buy her(SD) stuff anymore.

So today they are supposed to go to their mom's .... none of them want to go ... SS13 told her he wasn't going to her house today ... ss16 said he will but only if she puts his phone back on .... SD asked if I was working tonight I said no (big mistake) ... SD called mom on the way to school to tell her I have the night off so she wants to stay at daddys tonight .... so mom called hubby flipping about how her kids like me better than her ....

I can't win and I am not even trying to win!!!!!!

Here are my questions:

How do I word it so I am not justifying mom's actions but get them to see that what they are doing is not right .... even though this is what she taught them to do just not to her.

SD is tricky ... she has always used my mom has custody blah blah blah ... now she doesn't want to live with mom either and told mom so ...I am sure that will change in 15 minutes :)

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Oh wow. I've got nothing on how to word it, but calling their mom out during a bible study in her home is totally unacceptable. The calling mom out was bound to happen, but so openly was the inappropriate place to have done it. The kids are at an age where they realize their mother has many faults and I assume watching Mom sit there during bible study all christian like and holier-than-thou while they know the other side of this woman, was kinda like a last straw for these kids.

Mom should have dismissed her study group and then kept the kids at home to deal with her children...not had the out of shipping them off to Dad's. She's created this and she has to face it and deal with it. Dad should have refused to pick the kids up...the kids started this by calling Mom out and the kids should have had to stay and finish what they started. Seriously, if the boys think they are old and brave enough to call Mom out, running to now hid at Dad's should not have been allowed.

Yeah, I get Mom is the one who sent them away. But unless they were all physically beating on each other, I think Dad should have said 'sorry, but you all need to work this out'. And I get that Mom is angry at them. They called her out in front of her group and losing their phones to have time to reflect upon what they did won't hurt them a bit. No matter what they think of their mother, calling her out where and when they did was just all wrong. She did not deserve that...even if what the boys said they view as true. It was an manipulative action to cause embarrassment down around their mother's shoulders...almost like publically stoning her. yet they are not really going to see what they did wrong as this is exactly what Mom taught them to do...speak opinions loud and clear.

Now would be the time for these boys and their mother to attend extensive counseling sessions together. They love this woman, she loves them, they just all are in a dysfunctional relationship together...she's taught them to be what they have become and now shes being confronted with what she created. A neutral place where they all can air their feelings and opinions. Maybe they should not stay with Dad while this takes places (it would be hard though to be open/honest in session only to then all have to jump in the car and go home together...too much truths and opening of wounds) but I'd seek the professional's advice on the living arrangement because maybe she/he would feel it was for the better.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 11:28AM
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Agreed Justme. Good advice.

"How do I word it so I am not justifying mom's actions but get them to see that what they are doing is not right .... even though this is what she taught them to do just not to her."

There's a fine line between being honest and being mean. It's difficult to learn when it's appropriate to say something (truthful) and when it's better to just let it go and come back to it later (still truthful, but delayed).

I think giving the kids an example would be good. As in, would you like it better if I called you out on leaving your dirty underwear on the bathroom floor when your friend is over, or should I wait until your friend has left?

Dirty underwear is on the floor regardless. The question is tact.

Dad never should have let mom "punish" the kids by sending them over. They should have stayed and worked it out. Not your fight, not your problem.

As for the "I'm the worst mother in the world" B.S. that BM is spewing...

Last night DD stomped around, said stuff like "I'm just not a good kid and I feel like a brat and I should just go live with another family".

I told her that if she spent 1/2 the amount of energy she's spending on beating her self up and feeling sorry for her self on changing her behavior things would change for the better.

I used the example of me brushing her hair. She just got her ears pierced, so when I brush, I glance against her ears and it hurts. I asked her last night how many times her ear was hurt that time. She said none. And I pointed out that the first time, I hurt her twice. She had to tell me two times to watch out for her ears. But not anymore, because I learned and I'm paying attention to her ears.

It took me being told two times for me to internalize that I need to be more careful. I could be whining as I'm brushing "I never brush your hair nice, I'm a bad mommy, I keep hurting your ears" or I could be concentrating on NOT HURTING your ears.

Which one works better?

I just have very low tolerance for people bellyaching about how lousy they are instead of saying "I was lousy, but I'm making an effort to change that" and then doing it.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 12:19PM
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Wording? I don't know. My dad would tell us "She is still your Mother & you won't treat her that way!" He was not defending her, but placing expectations for OUR behavior as a child. Same thing with a teacher we didn't like, they are still your teacher & you will behave in class & do what you're supposed to. It isn't about condoning mom or her actions, she has to live with what she's taught her children. It's about dad & you teaching them that THEIR behavior is unacceptable to YOU, not because you agree with their mother or even because it's their mother... they should not behave that way with ANYONE. I would say, You don't have to like the things you're mom does but she is still your mom & you won't treat her like that, especially in MY presence (and bringing it into your home draws you into it so that makes it YOUR PRESENCE. If they stay home to deal with it, then it's between them & it's THEIR problem but when they come to your home & pull you into even witnessing it, it becomes your business to say something.)

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 12:29PM
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I have a little differ thought. Is it possible they are letting out years of pain from dealing with her?

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 1:50PM
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They share a 50/50 split in visitation ... dad has sole custody of the boys, mom has sole custody of SD. Mom's solution is to never deal with it ... when boys misbehave she ships them here when SD misbehaves she doesn't have the option of sending her here.

I basically told them what you all said ... the behavior is unacceptable she is your mother ... I would have been livid if you spoke to me that way you could have chosen a different time to tell her and in anger is not the way ...

Mom always plays poor me ...always the victim same as SD their behavior is never the problem its always how the others react to her/them thats the problem.

SS13 is here tonight ... the only one who stuck to his word by saying he wasn't going ...

I stay out of their relationship as much as possible after all this is their dynamic even if it doesn't work for them!

Dad picking them up saving them all is not a battle I can win ... so I choose not to fight ... its that or he has to stay on the phone with mom and console her he enables it I deal with it .... find something to keep me busy or go shopping! win win for me :)

I know my place its not a bad thing since I have come to accept it ... (basically gave up that fight)

Yes Eandhl it is possible ... but its still unacceptable ... even though this is how she wanted them to treat us they do not ... they treat her the way she wished they treated us ... and we cannot tell its her behavior that is causing their reactions she just will not see that she is the issue not them.

    Bookmark   October 18, 2011 at 7:08PM
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I didn't read all replies; sorry if I'm going to double up.

Pseudo I read your post with a satisfied smile on my face. I know you're not trying to 'win' or 'be the best' or anything, but boy does it feel good to see their eyes opening up!

"How do I word it so I am not justifying mom's actions but get them to see that what they are doing is not right .... even though this is what she taught them to do just not to her."

I would say: "I don't think that it's ok to treat people like (insert behavior). You don't like it when people treat you like that, and it's not ok for you to do the same back to others, even when they do it to you. They're in the wrong for behaving that way, remember that. And it doesn't mean you have to put up with it either; you can still tell the other person you don't appreciate the way they speak to you, and tell them what you think, but without cursing or yelling. Sometimes it's best to walk away first and wait till things have calmed down before you can say what you want to say.

I usually talk about 'people' rather then 'mom'. But the message is clear: I don't agree with the behavior, no matter who is displaying it. Or maybe you should just say that, even simpler!

Good luck with it all!

    Bookmark   October 19, 2011 at 9:05PM
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