New Windows -lead paint removal

Norwell82November 24, 2011

I am looking at purchasing a house built in 1950 with original windows that will need to be replaced along with trim and sills. I understand Mass now has a lead paint compliance law that has special requirements when working with lead paint such as enclosure of the work site. Can anyone please give me an estimate on what the labor cost will be on a per window basis to install new windows, sills and trim? I assume the new lead paint laws add significantly to the labor costs. Thanks

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PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd

EPA is the actual institution that enforces the RRP rule.

Google RRP.

Do you know if you have lead paint? Just being built prior to 1978 does not guarantee that you have lead paint.

Labor costs vary from organization to organization.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 12:00PM
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brickeyee

"Just being built prior to 1978 does not guarantee that you have lead paint. "

This. Despite the BS claims from the EPA

Lead paint was expensive paint, even 50 years ago.
many older houses do not have any of it present.

In may cases it is actually higher end city housing now fallen on hard times that has lead paint.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 1:39PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington Ltd

+1

I have seen homes from the 40's without lead paint and homes from the late 70's with it.

Total crap shoot.

    Bookmark   November 24, 2011 at 4:28PM
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toddinmn

The EPA has never stated that all pre 1978 homes have lead paint on them to my knowledge.What BS claims are you talking about?
In order to give a idea on price of installation more details would be needed. Window installs can range from $50 to over $1000 depending on type of window and type of install.Sils and trim could be in this range as well depending on type of trim, finish, size of window ect.
Cost for lead paint can add between $20- $200 or more per window depend on ?
Even though many houses didn't have lead paint many did, so don't be ignorant and underestimate the dangers.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 1:22AM
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mmarse1

I don't know where you can find a window install for 50 bucks . A normal window install is around 200 per window for just the install..if it's more complex or new construction it's more. Lead is an addition 100 usually.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:08AM
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toddinmn

"Noraml install" is pretty vague to me and means different things to different people. For a install on a insert with no exterior wrapping, $50 is not unheard of, Hell I will do it for free depending on what I sell you the window for.Around here there is no "usually" price on lead.I do it in the $20-$50 range, others commonly charge $200.As I said the installation details would need to stated but would still be hard to say without seeing the job because of all of the varibles.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 9:51AM
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pam29011

Also, you can buy a kit at the hardware store to let you test for lead paint yourself. It might give you some peace of mind. There are some limits to them, but I'd start with that.

Here's some info that might be helpful for you:
'If you are a homeowner performing renovation, repair, or painting work in your own home, EPA's RRP rule does not cover your project. However, you have the ultimate responsibility for the safety of your family or children in your care. '

My interpretation of this is that you may be able to consider removing the old windows yourself as a DIY project & renting a dumpster to dispose of them. If you have your installer ready to go on the installs, you could save the cost of lead abatement. You'd still want to wear a respirator that is rated for lead paint (costs $35 at my local hardware store) and take care with the dust/debris you kick up .. but it's do able if you don't have kids or pregnant women in the house.

Our house was built in the mid 1960's and my plan for an upcoming reno is that IF we have lead paint, I'll demo those sections myself & damp mop the walls/floors to remove dust. And I'll take plenty of precautions.

HTH,
-Pam

Here is a link that might be useful: EPA link on lead paint & DIY projects

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 12:32PM
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brickeyee

"The EPA has never stated that all pre 1978 homes have lead paint on them to my knowledge."

they have said that EVERY house built before 1978 needs to be checked for lead paint.
That would imply tat a large portion of pre-78 houses have lead paint.

It is a gross exaggeration, and in typical EPA style has no cost benefit analysis associated.
Since the EPA authorizing legislation did not REQUIRE them to have any cost benefit analysis, they take that as a prohibition on cost benefit analysis.

It is simply a gross exaggeration of the prevalence of lead paint without any basis in research or fact.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 3:29PM
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skydawggy

We are finding that a lot of houses built before 1978 do not have lead paint. Seems to run bu neighborhood sometimes. If it was developed by one builder and he used lead paint, every hous has it. OTOH if he did not use lead, then usually none of the homes do. If it was a single house, not in a subdivision, then it depends.

We have done a couple of installs where the homeowner removed and disposed of the old windows themselves and we just installed the new ones. Saved them some money and we never tested for lead.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 5:25PM
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toddinmn

The EPA has stated that of 129 million housing units, 76.5 million were built before 1980. Of those 76.5 million 38 million have lead.They have also stated that the older the home the more likely it is to have lead based paint.The research they have done or research that they have used is a endless pile.Around here the lower quality housing is as likely as the higher quality housing to have lead paint in any given era,according to my own undocumented research of course.

Any contractor not using RRP rules because the homeowner removed the windows would be foolish and even more foolish to post it online.

    Bookmark   November 25, 2011 at 8:48PM
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pam29011

But ... if the windows with the lead paint have been removed from the job site already, why would you need to follow RRP rules? Unless the exterior siding & interior drywall have lead paint, which isn't very common, there won't be lead paint that is being disturbed.

-Pam

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 8:05AM
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mmarse1

The RRP rule is ridiculous and nothing more than an income generating machine. Any responsible installer is going to contain a mess whether there is lead or not.. Most lead paint is in public housing and the reason why every now and then you hear stories about lead poisoning during renovations of public housing is due to the jerk off's in the state who only accept the lowest bidder and get low quality workers who don't give a crap. So now they look for a scape goat and a way to capitalize on their bs scare tactics.
Most homes built before 1978 do NOT have lead . Another misconception is lead abatement. Contractors do NOT perform lead abatement, that is a totally different animal. We just contain the dust and clean up properly. We do not remove lead. For those of you who don't want lead in your home, here's an idea. Get a home tested Before you buy..if it tests positive, either buy a different house or pay 50k for a lead abatement or even more depending on the size of the home.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 9:00AM
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brickeyee

"The research they have done or research that they have used is a endless pile."

Ad mostly confined to cities.

It remains a gross exaggeration foisted on the public, like the new rules.

the remodeling industry is not about to bother pushing back about such rules, it puts more money in their pockets by increasing the costs of projects.

The removal of the windows that have lead paint will fall under the new rules.

It is just astounding how anyone managed to survive before the EPA nanny stepped in.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 9:52AM
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skydawggy

It is also incorrect that 38 million homes have lead paint. The claim is 38 million "housing units". The miss-informed read this as houses but it includes Military Bases, Hotel/Motel Rooms, Prisons, Apartments, Hospitals etc. To believe that many houses have lead paint is incorrect. We find that less than 20% of the houses we test built before 1978 have lead paint. Some homes we have tseted built in the 1960's do test positive while some homes built in the 1940's and 1950's do not test positive.

    Bookmark   November 26, 2011 at 10:10AM
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toddinmn

One should follow the rules for many reasons, in the end the contractor is ultimately responcible.
It is fairly common for exterior siding to have lead paint.Interior "drywall" rarely has lead paint.
Most lead paint is not in Public Housing but Public Housing is more likely to have it since most of it is in older housing units.
Public Housing has been very Pro active on Lead long before RRP rules came about.You can look-up Title-X.I have Done Public Housingwork back in the 90's.Even though you typically had to be low bid the Lead work was strictly enforced and had to pass clearance testing.
Here in MN it is rare any more for a child from Public Housing to get lead poisoning.
Lead abatement is method used in Lead reduction work, typically things are not abated.Whether or not you are performing a lead reduction usually depends on the intent of the work, source of the funding and some other varibles.
Lead reduction and RRP rules are very similar and in some cases the RRP rules can be even more strict.Where Do you think most of the RRP rules came from?
I did state "housing units" in my previous post.
Some of the RRP rules are just common sense, it's amazing how many people still don't follow some of the more basic rules.
Sky's sample testing numbers is just why one should test for lead.
Most of my work is on houses built in between 1900 and 1920, I never test and just assume it is positive. Of the houses that have been tested more than 90% are positive un less the the windows are not original.

    Bookmark   November 27, 2011 at 12:16PM
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