Remodel work?

footwedgeMay 18, 2011

I need to move the switch for the garbage disposal and add receptacles to include the dishwasher. There is not enough slack to use the existing lead ins; and, was wondering if it's ok to cut the lead ins adding a jb in the attic then add the required length of cable in lieu of running all new cable to the panel box? Also, is it common practice to do this regardless of the 120v circuit involved when this simplifies the installation?

TIA

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brickeyee

As long as the new junction box remains accessible you should be fine (note some new rules about burying boxes under insulation have been put in place).

    Bookmark   May 18, 2011 at 9:42AM
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footwedge

Thanks Brickeyee.

Another question for you. Are the knock out tabs on remodel boxes supposed to removed or just bent inward? I'm hoping for the just bent inward because these are a royal pain to completely remove.

    Bookmark   May 18, 2011 at 9:04PM
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Ron Natalie

Which new rules are those Brick? Some change in 2011 I missed?

Which tabs are we talking about? Knockouts get removed completely. If you're talking about the clips on the plastic boxes that are where you stuff the NM (romex) cable, then they just get pushed inward (so they bind on the cable so that it can't be (easily) pulled out).

    Bookmark   May 19, 2011 at 5:16AM
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DavidR

On the new work plastic boxes (usually nail to studs), you knock out the, uh, knockouts. The cable is to be secured within, oh, now I forget - 3" of the box? Or is it 6"? Someone set me straight here, I don't have the book here, and always just secure it as close to the box as practical.

On the old work boxes (usually have wings to hold them in plaster or drywall), they're cable clamps as Ron describes. You push the cable through and (assuming the plastic isn't junk) it will hold the cable. Clamps are required where the cable is fished to the box without being secured to the stud inside the wall.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 1:23AM
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petey_racer

David, there are plenty of new-work plastic boxes that do not have KO's and are just like Ron described.

Pretty much the only ones like you describe are brown/tan bakelite boxes and some blue boxes.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 6:51AM
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footwedge

If the backsplash will be tiled, do you install the remodel boxes before or after the tile? I'm thinking before, to inure the tabs have the most contact with the rock.

Since the remodel boxes are flush with the face of the rock, will there be a need for any adjustments to the switches/outlets to make sure everything is flush at the end? If spacers are needed, what is the recommended model?

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 10:11AM
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Ron Natalie

Depends on the design of the box, but usually you have to put them in AFTER the finished surface. The problem is that you need to get the front of the box within an 1/4" of the finished surface. Depending on the thickness of your tile, installing them flush with the underlying wallboard may not put them far enough out.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 11:50AM
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footwedge

Ronnatalie, the box design has 2 tabs each on the top and bottom. These tabs are pulled against the rock with screw flanges. Also, these tabs are the meat of the installation. If they don't have adequate contact the box will be unstable. I have not see any other types at the big box stores.

If I install them prior to the tile, then I will have to make sure the tile guy lays to tile to very closely fit the box size so the tabs will have a contact surface. These tabs only extend about 1/4 inch above and below the box- not much to play with. I don't think the tile guy be be this precise.

I think I might have to make some spacers to put behind the tabs if needed.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 1:40PM
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brickeyee

"Which new rules are those Brick? Some change in 2011 I missed?"

Might be 08.

I recall the addition of a specific call out that boxes in attics may not be buried in insulation.

It might be in the form of a change in the finished surface definition.

    Bookmark   May 20, 2011 at 2:36PM
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shadetree_bob

If the back splash is gonna be tiled then while doing the surface prep I would make a large enough hole to be able to install new work boxes and bring them out to where they should be. It shouldn't be much of a problem to repair or patch the hole. Up in the attic just use new work boxes and install high enough on a brace to be above any insulation, then no matter what code says about burying or not, you are covered, uh make that uncovered. Then seal it with a blank plate.

    Bookmark   May 26, 2011 at 10:58PM
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Ron Natalie

I'd like the reference to the insulation if you can find it. I searched around in the 2011 book and couldn't find anything.

    Bookmark   May 28, 2011 at 7:45AM
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