more disappointment...

imamommySeptember 22, 2010

BM hasn't paid a penny for ANYTHING since May... when they took her tax refund. She stopped working when she had her new baby back in February so DH got a few payments when she was getting disability or unemployment for her maternity leave. In the meantime, she was charged & convicted of grand theft/embezzlement and spent one day in jail... has a fine & 3 years probation. (IMO, barely a slap on the wrist) But, isn't NOT paying your child support a violation of court order? My attorney says yes, but good luck getting a DA to file... so DH is going to file his own contempt charges for disobeying a court order. But that isn't the topic of my post, just an update where the support issue stands.

We put SD in a new school so she would be closer to my work & I could try to help her more. Unfortunately, she continues to lie to me... telling me work is turned in when it hasn't been... "oh, we did that in class!" and later find out she never turned it in... that is my biggest issue with SD... TRUST. She has been 'saving' assignments to work on at her mom's... even though they are due BEFORE she goes there. Then mom won't help her & she gets a zero. I sent BM a text message about SD's grades... DH refuses to communicate much with her about important issues, as he thinks it's pointless. Well, it was pointless because she ignored it. All of the teachers have set up a conference that we know BM won't come to. We are not trying to beat a dead horse, but we also realize that BM's lack of involvement is the crux of SD's problems.... she is doing everything possible to get her mom's attention. She has told us that and we have talked until we are blue in the face that she can't "MAKE" her mom get involved and she's only hurting herself. In one ear, out the other. She has 4 F's and a D. She isn't even trying.. she got a 35% on an open book test.

Anyway, BM made a big deal about getting SD on DH's weekend because her Aunt was coming from Hawaii to visit & she wanted SD there. It just happens that DH's grandparents are also visiting that weekend & he wants SD to see them too. So, everyone arranged a plan that would allow BM to have SD on Saturday & she would come back Sunday so we can get together with his grandparents Sunday evening. My opinion is that since BM was making such a big deal over this, maybe it would make SD feel like mom really wants her there.. that it's important enough to make all these arrangements. As annoying (to me) as it was that BM is getting DH to agree to give up his weekend... and getting him to drive to pick up SD at a special time and all, I thought it would be a good thing for SD's attitude about her mom. That made it worth it.

Well, last night DH hands SD the phone to call her mom & tells her that BM's aunt hurt her arm or leg so she won't be going to BM's after all. I'm a little irritated with DH for the way he broke it to her... I doubt he was thinking of how SD would feel once again being canceled by BM. To me, it was insensitive of him & he should have left it up to BM to tell her. In my opinion, they went through all the trouble to arrange the weekend, SD was looking forward to it & they could have kept the plan for SD to go see her mom. But, it doesn't surprise me that BM cancels the time with SD without a care about how SD feels... she hasn't been there for her in three years (maybe longer) and this just adds to all the problems I am having with SD... the attitude, the anger, & her constantly doing things to get the attention she craves from her mom (and dad). Now I am fighting the urge to tell BM what I really think. I know it won't do any good... she thinks she's a good mom & it would become about me & her disliking each other rather than about SD, which is what my problem with her really is.

I just needed to vent a little. I know BM won't come to SD's conference, she won't help with homework, she won't do ANYTHING... and IMO, the visitation with her is detrimental to SD's well being. I can't help but wonder if she never went over there, would she start to focus on her life here & herself? Or would it get worse? It seems so hopeless & feels like a helpless situation. Counseling doesn't help, she lies to her counselors. She is such a lost child, it's really so hard to watch.

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I wonder if bm made up the visit because she wanted to see if dh would be flexible. If he wouldn't have been she could have blamed him for something so she could make herself look like the victim to sd.

That is good that you all have meetings set up with the school to discuss sd's grades. I know our district has teacher webpages where each teacher posts the homework daily and keeps class notes and updates about tests. Does your school do anything like that? It has been such a help to us because we have had issues with 2 of our 4 kids not remembering things. We even get a set on loan of ds and middle sd's textbooks from the school each year to keep at home, this way there is no excuses. In the past we went to the local library also when the kids forgot something because all the schools texts were there to use in the library. For organization we got them each two of those expandable portfolios. One holds papers for each subject. The other holds notebooks and workbooks for each subject. They carry both of those around everyday at school and bring both home each night. It has helped a lot.

You are really wonderful IMA for stepping up like you have with your sd and trying to help her. Hopefully in the long run this will all make a difference in her life even though right now it does not seem like it is to you.

Also, I would just keep telling bm in text messages or e-mails about important issues. This way you can document that she was told and did nothing in case you need it for anything in the future.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 9:25AM
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Ima, I'm so sorry. You must feel so frustrated and angry while BM is in blissful ignorance of how badly her behavior is affecting her daughter's life. I wonder sometimes if kids do things like the homework issue in an almost deliberate effort to find out just how low their parents will go (surely Mom will do something if I fail all of my classes!).

Speaking from my biased perspective, I really think sometimes it would be better for kids if visitations were either completely ended or highly supervised, but the courts seem to disagree unless/until the situation is appallingly horrific. They keep saying that "kids need both of their parents" - really? Then why isn't it a crime for parents to skip visitation? It's a crime in our state for visitation to be withheld (because kids need both parents), but not for NCP to just not show up (because apparently kids don't need both parents?). They talk about the "best interests of the child", but their actions seem to be more about some egg or sperm donors property rights to their offspring.

I wonder if it would help SD to be in some form of highly supervised school, or like boarding school. It is like you said; it seems like she is going to keep trying and hoping that her mother will do something and meanwhile it sounds like she is sinking fast. Maybe if she realized that her mother no longer had the option to help her (like if visitation with any family was strictly limited) she'd be able to focus more on school. She could tell herself that her mother would come to visit every day, and help with homework, but alas! She's not allowed. So SD might as well do it on her own.

"...convicted of grand theft/embezzlement and spent one day in jail... has a fine & 3 years probation." It's not that I'm a fan of drugs but I think it's ridiculous knowing that if my neighbor gets busted smoking a joint in his house that he's likely to serve more jail time than she did.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 9:34AM
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Wow Ima. I'm sorry.

DD forgets her homework frequently enough that we started scanning it in at the beginning of the week. That way even if she forgot it, we'd have a copy and also a copy of the assignment page. Just her knowing that she will not get out of homework if she "left it at school" has reduced the incidents a lot.

Also, if she doesn't have it we give her extra homework that I've made up or retrieved from the internet. Sitting down and filling in a multiplication grid is much more work than her actual homework would have been ;)

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 9:52AM
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"They keep saying that "kids need both of their parents" - really? Then why isn't it a crime for parents to skip visitation? It's a crime in our state for visitation to be withheld (because kids need both parents), but not for NCP to just not show up (because apparently kids don't need both parents?)"

Such a good point, Mattie!

Wow, Ima, I am sorry. What mess. I can only imagine how frustrated you must feel---and how it seems like SD, over time, is just not getting it.

I HAVE to believe, though, that all the time and caring and help you're givng her HAS to be sinking in somewhere. Even if it doesn't seem like it's making an ounce of difference now, it must be.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 10:58AM
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My heart breaks for your SD, Ima... and I don't even know her!

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 1:31PM
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BM cancels visitations because her aunt didn't come visit, nice, that's how much she wants to see SD, what a model parent

i hope SD's school situation improves, it is too early to be failing every class, awful...
see what teachers say at the meeting

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 1:47PM
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"I wonder if bm made up the visit because she wanted to see if dh would be flexible"

I wondered the SAME thing. This is the same Aunt that they brought to SD's school for lunch & kept it a secret... like we would have cared. The same Aunt SD told us she was going to see in Hawaii last year... which never happened.

"our district has teacher webpages where each teacher posts the homework daily and keeps class notes and updates about tests."

Both of her schools had online grades & this year she has most of her assignments posted on webpages by her teachers. The problem arises because SD will insist the teacher's webpage is wrong... Here's an example: She had a paper due. Rough draft due last week & last Friday, the webpage said "did you finish your final draft?" So, on Thursday I ask SD for her final draft. She tells me it's not due until Friday. I say, "it says 'did you finish', which I interpret to mean you should have STARTED it." She then tells me that she can't start it because the teacher hasn't given her the rough draft back. So on Friday morning, I email the teacher but don't get a response until Tuesday. Meanwhile, SD goes to her mom's on the weekend & when she gets home on Sunday night, I look through her binder. She has her 'final draft' which she says is ready to turn in. It looks like a 6 year old wrote it. She says didn't have time to work on it because DH got there to get her. She says she started working on it right before DH got there. It looks like it, but that's on her... she had all weekend. Then I find a math test that she got 24/100 on with a note saying if she fixed the wrong problems & showed her work (so the teacher knows she understands) then she could get 2 pts for each fixed problem. They are normally worth 4 pts. She didn't bother to do that either. Teacher gave it to her Friday, it's due Monday. She gets home too late to work on it Sunday so she's gonna keep her 24%. That is what pushed me to text BM & ask her why she isn't checking SD's backpack. A couple of weeks ago she was playing hero mom, writing the teacher a note about how the kid that corrected SD's work just marked all the problems wrong when they were right.. haha THAT must be why SD has all F's, not because she's not doing her work. (and SD never showed her teacher the note... probably because the answers WERE wrong!)

"I wonder sometimes if kids do things like the homework issue in an almost deliberate effort to find out just how low their parents will go (surely Mom will do something if I fail all of my classes!)."

I don't wonder. SD has TOLD me that she gets F's on purpose (at the beginning of last year). She said she thought it would help her mom get custody. We know it's so her mom will come to a conference or help her with her work or fight for custody so mom can prove she's a better parent?

Boarding school would not be financially feasible. However, I agree that limiting the visitation might help.. if it's out of BM's control. But then that makes us the bad guys again, which is already part of our problem. At least now SD is seeing what BM is about & knows we are fighting to help her. She just wants to make her mom get on board. She wasn't that involved before & now she is less involved with all the other stuff going on in her life. It is frustrating that SD doesn't get it. Of course, we can't say anything... mom has another baby and mom is having legal problems. We also suspect BM is having BF problems too...

I hope it sinks in eventually. She KNOWS we care & that we are doing all we can to help her.

"They keep saying that "kids need both of their parents" - really? Then why isn't it a crime for parents to skip visitation? It's a crime in our state for visitation to be withheld (because kids need both parents), but not for NCP to just not show up (because apparently kids don't need both parents?). They talk about the "best interests of the child", but their actions seem to be more about some egg or sperm donors property rights to their offspring."

Interestingly enough, when my son's father stopped seeing him when he was 11 or 12.. I really got tired of him getting ready & waiting for his dad to not show up. So, the court required him to send me something in writing of his intention to visit. He sent the letters saying he would come get him... in his wife's handwriting of course. After a few no show's, I filed a contempt case for disobeying a court order. I listed EVERY visit he failed to exercise, Every incident where he was late & his refusal to return my son's property (a video game system & his bike).. I charged him with 56 counts of contempts. In court, I represented myself. I testified & was able to cross examine him. I was able to prove 11 counts of contempt, was awarded $1500 in attorney's fees & $100 for the bike. He was sentenced to perform community service & $50 fine per contempt. In addition, the court suspended the visitation and said if he wanted to resume visits, he could petition the court & reinstate his visits. That never happened & my son didn't see him until after he turned 18.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2010 at 2:12PM
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The problem arises because SD will insist the teacher's webpage is wrong.

Yeah... funny how the teacher is so often wrong, isn't it??

DD told me that she had to do ________ homework. I told her that the page says something different. She said her teacher told her _________. I wrote a note on the homework page, asking for clarification and told DD to give it to her teacher the next day.

Next day: DD gives me the paper, says she didn't give it to the teacher because the teacher didn't ask for homework.

DD... I asked you to GIVE to teacher. Whose responsibility was that?

Of course, I don't have someone leading her off on the path your BM is, but it's hard enough just communicating one-on-one with DD about homework.

You have the patience of a saint.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 11:42AM
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Ima - Have you considered emailing SD's teachers directly? Maybe requesting a conference?

Basically, your SD's behavior and situation is 'out there' -- to deliberately fail to get her mom's attention when she's capable of doing better... And both you and the teachers know how dire the consequences will be if SD doesn't change her academic ways and continues with the 'stripper attire' and sexy behavior. I can't imagine her teachers want this predictable end any more than you do...

Has SD been tested for learning disabilities? And has anything been found? If I recall ADHD was a 'maybe' but you didn't think so...

If that's the case, though, it could actually be a godsend, because an ADHD diagnosis can qualify a child for special education services (504 plan), and special education services may be exactly what she needs. I'm not suggesting she's not plenty bright -- or even that she HAS ADHD. Just that emotionally, she's a 'square peg in a round hole' and that a special education designation could help you get the school to help make her 'hole' more square.

For example, my son's teachers used to write down his assignments in his assignment book every day so I could stay on top of them and know what they were. What was written down got done - period. Now, my son was not capable of writing them down himself at that point -- your SD is. BUT - there are really good reasons for having the teacher write them down or verify that she has written them down correctly, and those reasons have to do with your SD's disability (ADHD, emotional, behavioral -- whatever it really is).

WITH that special education designation, the school HAS to do certain things to help her succeed. The law REQUIRES the school to modify your SD's curriculum to enable her to learn and succeed, and as a parent, you (OK, Hubby - but he can designate you or you can participate with him) have a lot of input into what the school will do. These are things the school won't normally do for a 'typical' kid -- even one who is struggling.

Another example -- My son takes his tests in a quiet room supervised by a teacher. If he gets 'stuck', a teacher will read him the question and prompt him to spit out what he knows to answer it. And his tests are untimed with no written essay questions. (They'll grade his verbal responses.) This makes a HUGE difference for him, and allows him to succeed. Of course, without the Sp. Ed. designation, the school would not have to do this...

Bottom line - You know you have to do something. Otherwise, the current trend will continue until it ends up -- well, you know...

Getting her classified as Sp. Ed. (the designation does not have to be permanent, and it is considered highly confidential) may give you a whole new set of 'parenting tools' in the toolbox. There's also the chance that it'll shake SD so much that she'll want to work her way out of it. Or that real problems that are contributing to her struggles will be discovered.... The Sp. Ed. kids get a lot of positive teacher attention at school -- so if that's what she's truly after, it might really help.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 4:58PM
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LOVE the idea, Sweeby!

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 5:16PM
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Wow Sweeby. My dd doesn't test well, but when I ask her the questions she gets 100%.

Not to be critical of your son (please don't take it that way) but it seems really unfair. She zones out during testing, but would never qualify for special ed. and therefore her grades do suffer.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 5:30PM
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I think ima said she has been tested and everything is within average norm or maybe I am mixing kids up...I remember asking ima awhile ago because i suspected there is something with SD...

On the other hand some kids are just immature or aren't ready for a challenge. My niece is really bright and extremely responsible, she is always on top of things, doing her work and has no attention problems, but she is only 8 and is in already 4th grade. Ouch. She started having difficulties with math. My brother took her out of multiple extracurriculars that she attended and got her math tutor. So she should be doing better with time but they regret they sent her to school that early, it might too much for her little head LOl.

Sweeby if ADD/ADHD is severe enough sometimes children qualify for OHI certification...has to be really bad though or depends on a district.

Comment about unfairness that people with special needs get additional accommodations is rather strange. It is disrespectful to people with special needs. If one believes their child has a disability, then they should request testing rather than being jealous that someone else qualify for services. Maybe because I deal with disabilities daily and advocate for people with disabilities, I find such comments personally offensive. And I understand how difficult it is to be a parent of a child with special needs.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 6:28PM
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PO1, I know many kids who are ADHD and they are not any different than my DD. It's a blanket diagnosis a lot of the time. "special needs" and "disabilities" have a spectrum as well.

I had many classmates who were ADHD (LOL) and they got that designation just so they could get Ritalin for it. Which they promptly snorted.

Not that it's not a real disability. For some kids it is. DD has a really hard time paying attention. I choose not to medicate her but to go other routes. But I know she would benefit from someone taking one-on-one time during a test....

who wouldn't????

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 7:26PM
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SD was tested last year for learning disabilities. She was found to be "above average" but they did note many of the symptoms of ADHD. The psychiatrist went ahead & diagnosed her with ADHD, though I feel her mom has discussed the symptoms of it enough with her (she's tried since SD was 5 to get her on medication) that SD may be saying she can't concentrate, etc. because she knows what the symptoms are.. wants to please mom with a positive diagnosis? The reason I say that is one day we were having dinner & she asks DH if he knows what "zoning out" means. He asked what she meant & she described that zoning out is when you stare off & aren't paying attention. Then he asked her why she wanted to know & we noticed that she was staring off so he asked her again & she kinda jumped & looked at him funny and said "oh, I was zoning out". It was kinda funny in a way but it was like she wanted us to know she was zoning out so she had to make sure we knew what it was before she did it. She's also lied about injuries, etc. so it's hard to diagnose someone that isn't truthful & is looking for attention.

But, since she does have the diagnosis it would be well worth it to look into what Sweeby suggested.. thanks Sweeby! I do know that she does spell her spelling words correctly when asked verbally but written, she second guesses it & changes them thinking she's fixing them even if they are already correct. We have a conference set up the first week of October so I will definitely bring that up.

For the last three years, I have kept in constant email communication with her teachers. It's interesting because at the beginning of the year, I will put it out there what I think of SD's problems & have been met with an attitude that I just don't like SD because I am saying negative things about her... well, I'm being honest. She isn't truthful. She lies. She hides her work. She has a huge problem with her mom. She doesn't share things with us. She wants to go live with her mom but her mom has left the building, without her. and usually by the holidays, we are getting feedback from teachers that she's doing the same things I said she would and then we are kept better informed. I'm not telling them those things to beat her up but I want them to communicate with me early on (because I can't trust her to tell me the truth about turning in her work)BEFORE she has the four F's she's got now... she brought one up to a D.

She has been OFF the medication for a week and actually seems to be doing better with her attitude & school work. It's hard to say WHY. My son moved out so I gave his room to the baby & now I'm painting it. SD has been wanting her room painted for over a year (her mom had promised her she'd paint her room at her mom's house pink & brown.. but then SD didn't get a room at her mom's house & of course, no pink & brown paint) so I told SD if she brought her grades up to C's (all of them) I would paint her room & redecorate. She got excited & is now doing better. But, it's only been a few days... We'll see.

PS. PO1~ I think she was saying that her child would not qualify for special education but would still benefit, like any child, from one on one attention and being allowed to take tests verbally. I don't think there's anything wrong with being jealous or envious that someone qualifies for a program... I think it's too bad that kids have to qualify to get special attention. I think all kids should get the attention for their individual educational needs. Not all kids that need extra help qualify for special ed. My daughter was one of those that struggled & was tested several times but always barely missed the 'requirement' to qualify for special education services. She went through school feeling like she should be normal but that she was stupid. It was terrible for her self esteem.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 9:55PM
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Hey Silver - Please know that I didn't take any offense, but my son is definitely and without a doubt a Special Ed kid. (Autism spectrum plus a whole other laundry list of neurological disabilities.) For him, attempting anything else would be an exercise in futility...

My older son (dyslexic, ADHD and gifted) would have benefitted enormously from changes to his setting, but the school didn't think it would be fair since he was clearly competing with the college-bound kids in a very competitive school... His grades were always 'OK enough' to go along, and maturity (and eventually, Ritalin) cured his issues.

    Bookmark   September 23, 2010 at 10:14PM
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Has SD been back to dr for a post-med check? If you see she is 'doing better' off, there is a chance she needs adjustments and/or a different medication if she needs any at all.

Your SD can't fake ADD/ADHD for long nor consistant in a true manner that would 'fool' many for long. Sure, she could copy some of the symptoms short term, but she won't be able to do it for long...and I don't just mean days/weeks, I mean couple hours at a time. I even mean a few minutes at a time in some situations...something, for example such as her play at zoning out. I think a little believed fact many people fail to accept is that some ADD\ADHD can look you square in the eye and never 'hear' a word you said, totally tuned you right out.

So much going on with your SD...ignored by BM, fed info from BM she should not have been, seeking attention ect...I don't think there's any easy answers or quick fixes.

How is SD doing as far as making new friends and the like in her new school?

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 8:54AM
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Thank you Sweeby, I know that he is, I've heard you talk about it before... it was just that I had never heard it being put that way before:

"My son takes his tests in a quiet room supervised by a teacher. If he gets 'stuck', a teacher will read him the question and prompt him to spit out what he knows to answer it. And his tests are untimed with no written essay questions. (They'll grade his verbal responses.)"

I really meant.... Wow....

I'm not jealous, or envious, because I know that those children who truly are special needs have so many "special needs" and it must be really difficult getting them what they need and helping them along. My DD is not difficult, and really is doing fine, she just doesn't test well. Easily distracted, etc. I think if I wanted to, I could probably medicate her (lots of parents do for a lack of attention, which I don't agree with).

So yes, I do feel that it feels a bit unfair sure, but I'd never want to deny another child what they need to learn.

Imamommy, thank you, that's exactly what I was trying to say, but you were much more eloquent than me. "I think all kids should get the attention for their individual educational needs. " Exactly. All kids don't do well sitting in class, but that's the way our system is set up.

DD is very intelligent, but does not test well. And that is not a spectrum for disability ;) it's just something she and I have in common. She will get all the answers right one on one, but put her in a testing situation and it all falls apart. Hopefully it will be something she outgrows.

And I'm truly not jealous or envious of Sweeby's son getting special attention that he needs. I just (thankfully) never have had to fight for those special accommodations so when I just realized that he was getting help with testing it all of a sudden hit me, "hey, no fair"! (welcome to life, eh?)

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 10:47AM
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In one way, DS and I truly have the most incredible educational luxury. I honestly don't give a flip what his grades are, but I desparately care what he learns. His education is SO vitally important to me, but it's just not going to be measurable by anyone's standardized test.

Wouldn't the world be a much better place if every parent were only able to care about what their child was learning?
(Instead of competing against others based on some stupid test scores that may or may not show what a child knows?)

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 1:49PM
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Last night, SD came to me & said that since she hardly see's her mom, she wanted to know if she can call me mom.

Given the last year or so, I am hesitant because we haven't been getting along well at all so I don't get the feeling she has loving feelings for me... but I do know she wants to have those loving feelings felt for her, and she may not be getting that from her mom so maybe she wants me to love her like that? If that's so, I would feel wonderful about our relationship. But the thought that creeps into my head is that she just wants to go tell her mom that she's calling me mom, just to see if her mom will get mad, jealous, react at all or care? I don't want her to use me that way though I understand why she would and don't really blame her. I don't think she should have to work so hard to get her mom to love her & be a mom to her, but on the other hand I want to have a sincere & genuine relationship with her... not one based on making mom jealous.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 1:57PM
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That's so sad...
I know you just want to open your heart and arms out to this poor girl --
but you're nobody's fool, and this child and her wacko mom have played you too many times...

You have your work cut out for you...

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 3:26PM
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Yes it would Sweeby. But since those "stupid test scores" determine whether or not kids place in the higher classes they are important.

I too am more concerned with what she knows, and it's really hard to know when a child comes home with a very poor score on a test and I KNOW she knows the material. It means spending time working on how to do the test rather than the actual knowledge portions of it, because if you don't pass the test, you have to keep relearning the same info.

Teachers also "teach to the test" and it's starting extra early this year. They've already been tested twice.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 4:09PM
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although I certainly agree about providing individual attention to everyone, i have to say that people take a lot of tests in life, in school, at work, getting various licenses, even as basic as driver license. It is what it is. I really doubt that all tests could or should be provided verbally because some people do poorly.

Children who do not do well on tests (and I am excluding special needs people, i am talking about strictly people who just don't do well in school) should be taught various strategies how to do better and eventually will realize that they might have to study harder than others.

OK let's provide tests verbally to children who do poorly, but then comes SAT and of course it is not provided verbally and what's now?

Unfortunately not everyone can have 4.0 and not everyone will do well. Is it fair? No, but that's how life is. Otherwise everyone would be a Nobel Price Winner, it is just not happening. I wish I could sing, but I am tune deaf, i wish i was athletic, but I am not. Do i think it is fair, i don't know. DD graduated from a decent University, and she was good enough for that, but her best friend attends Harvard. Would DD even get into Harvard? No. Am i jealous that someone else got there? Absolutely not.

I am glad sweeby didn't take offense, but I knew her son has ASD and for people compare their children to that and be envious of that is just offensive. I don't understand this type of mentality, but I am glad sweeby is not offended.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 7:15PM
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wow, what a dilemma, I think in a way it is happy news that SD is reaching out to you, on the other hand it is sad BM is not involved and SD is sad about, I don't know even know what to say...
keep us updated

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 7:19PM
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PO1, you are the one who said envious and jealous. Not me. I specifically said I am not envious nor jealous. I can't imagine what it would entail to have a special needs child. In order to be jealous, I would need to fear losing something to someone, and that would not apply at all in this case. In order to be envious, I would be pained by the good fortune of Sweeby's son. I'm not. He needs those services and I'm glad that they are provided now instead of when I was young and we just had the special ed class that lumped everyone with special needs in together rather than being seen as individuals and getting individual help.

Being tone deaf or athletic are not the same as having different ways of learning. A person cannot sing well unless they can carry a tune. People learn in a myriad of ways, and to make all children conform to a certain standard of learning style in order to be successful does not always seem effective. My daughter is very intelligent but does not test well. Many people are the same. If you are tone deaf and everyone is singing, it would make sense to have someone sing each note and practice with you. If your success in life were measured by your ability to sing, you would probably be in a special vocal class with a tutor. Difference is that most likely you would not improve exponentially while those who have testing issues would. It's been proven.

In Denmark schools; rather than teaching to the lowest common denominator children are taught to the highest, and those with acquired skills in one area help those who are not. They have some of the highest rankings in intelligence in the world. There are many many styles of teaching, and America, at 9th, certaintly does not have the gold standard. So to say that everyone should just buck up and do it this way is ridiculous, IMO.

Ima understood what I was saying, and I tried to reiterate, but you aren't even trying, you'd rather make me out to be an insensitive clod. This I've noticed you do often where I am concerned, but I still expected just a tad better.

Stop putting words in my mouth. It's rude.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 8:01PM
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Certainly many tests are just bogus and BS, but we can't change that. People take tests everywhere in the world, Denmark, Kenya, Lithuania etc. And tests don't end with school.

Of course there are many teaching strategies but that's not what you were talking about but only about testing. I never said anything about teaching strategies and don't recall praising American education at all.

Doing well on tests takes more than just paying attention, it takes ability to summarize and find the most important information and eliminate and think logically and time oneself, it involves a lot. Some people do better than others. paying attention is important, but it is only one variable. By this logic everyone who is able to pay attention would have 2400 out of 2400 on SAT. Successful test taking involves more than that.

As about Denmark or other European countries... high school students take enormous number of tests including comprehensive high school exit exam. American does have the gold standard at all, most European universities do not even accept American high school graduates because unfortunately US level of secondary ed is not up to the standard. So education in Europe is very rigorous and involves extensive testing at every level. I don't think your comparison is that relevant.

Also in Europe students who do poorly are usually tracked rather early on and are pretty much on vocation path early on. They are not required or forced to compete with others since they are tracked as not college material. So rather than forcing struggling student to take tests that he/she cannot manage, they are provided with different type of education, more of a vocational type. And how are they tracked? primarily through comprehensive testing. So your examples of European education are not very accurate.

saying all that the US provides by far the best services for people with special needs, no where in the world people with special need have that many rights and get that many accommodations. US is the place to be for people with disabilities. This is absolutely great!!! i think US does have gold standard in that field. Other than that not so much...

Practice notes with me won't help. I have severe case (although not as bad as my mother's), i don't even recognize people's voices. I accepted that it is something I lack. I would never consider career in music. It would be stupid of me.

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 8:44PM
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meant to say America does NOT have gold standard in education, typed in a hurry

    Bookmark   September 24, 2010 at 9:55PM
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That's exactly what I'm saying POO, one cannot practice singing (your example) if there is no ability and get much better. One can practice test taking and skills increase exponentially.

Thank you again, to Ima, for understanding completely how I feel and what I was trying to say and for giving me the benefit of the doubt.

I'm not jealous of Sweeby's son. I don't want to take his special consideration away from him. I'm not envious of Sweeby's son, I don't want my daughter to be in his situation. I never said I was jealous, I never said I was envious. I had just never even considered that a child would get answers read out to them and "data mined" in that way. My dd is a fabulous reader but is a bit distracted. In the moment, I thought, wow, how great would that be, to have that bit of one on one.

You are once again blowing something completely out of proportion. I ask again that you don't put words in my mouth.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2010 at 1:11AM
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That's what I said: one should be taught testing strategies rather than finding ways to avoid testing(I am not talking about people with special needs). I just didn't think that solution is in testing children verbally or not testing at all or test them one on one. One cannot avoid testing in life. I don't know how one on one would take place with 35 students in a classroom, just don't see how and who would be able to do that. Plus there will be no one-on-one in real life (even job interviews are not one-on-one nowadays), so what would be the benefit of one=on-one testing? I think she needs to be taught how to perform under normal realistic circumstances. I know it must be upsetting to a child but I think it is better to get them upset now then wait until they reach adulthood and have no life skills and don't even have realistic picture of their own abilities.

As about being jealous and envious, I agree you only said you think it is unfair, you didn't use word "jealous". imaommy said there is nothing wrong in feeling jealous or envious that someone qualifies for services. One qualifies because one has disability. Rather strange to be envious of that. But oh well, enough about that.

    Bookmark   September 25, 2010 at 6:37PM
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