what to do with this ground?

stompoutbermudaApril 19, 2011

my panel is on the full side, and I have run out of space on the green bar...... can I put a ground wire on the white bar?

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Ron Natalie

Unless this is a service entrance where the ground and neutrals are bonded together, you can NOT just stick the grounds in the neutral bar. The lack of something appearing to be a main disconnect lends me to believe this is a subpanel.

You need to provide for more ground connections. You can install an additional grounding bar or perhaps a larger one than is what is there, or some other listed way of connecting the grounds.

I've got my doubt about this whole installation anyway. Is that really a square d homeline panel? If not, then why are those breakers in there?

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 6:51AM
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mike_kaiser_gw

The whole box looks a little odd to me.

  • Assuming this is a sub-panel, where is the grounded (neutral) conductor? And a separate grounding conductor?

  • There's the bare wire on the ground bar that I'm guessing is part of the circuit served by the 100 amp breaker at the center bottom. If that's serving another panel, you're missing the neutral. If it's not, what's using 100 amps? I'm also wondering if you can run a bare ground in flex?

  • A 30 amp single pole breaker? Seems odd for a residential installation. Is this a commerical installation?

  • There seems to be conduit and flex. Again, is this a commercial installation? If so, unqualified persons are generally prohibited doing such work.

  • Why is there green tape on the end of the grounding conductors. Not that there's a rule against it but it seems kind of amateurish and makes me immediately wonder why? Are there green wires somewhere not being used as a ground?

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 8:41AM
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brickeyee

"Assuming this is a sub-panel, where is the grounded (neutral) conductor? And a separate grounding conductor?"

It appears the breakers are all 2-pole (except the new one) and a 240 V circuit does not require a neutral (grounded) conductor.

You cannot use this panel to feed a 120 V load like you are trying since there is no neutral present in the panel.

This looks like commercial work for straight 240 V loads.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 9:43AM
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Ron Natalie

Looking at the picture again, I think that's a meter pan above it, so this may be a small main panel. This explains the lack of the neutral conductor, but where is the ground? That bare wire looks perhaps a bit undersized and frankly it appears to come up with the wires feeding the 100A beaker) so I suspect it goes with that. The neutral bar does appear to have a bonding screw in it (again this looks like no Square D panel I'm familiar with).

However, the service coming down form the top appears to not be connected to any sort of disconnect, so if this is being used as a main disconnect, it was probably legal with (other than the possibly non-listed breakers) because there are fewer than six handle throws. In this case you might be able to use the ground bar to land the neutrals.

Mike, the feed appears to be the #2's or whatever coming from the top and there is no ground. The 100A breaker is feeding the larger conductors passing through the conduit in the bottom. The neutral appears to land on the neutral lug over on the left side (above the grounds) that's connected through a bar over to the neutral terminals on the right and the bare ground wire are part of that 100A circuit/feeder heading elsewhere.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 9:51AM
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stompoutbermuda

Here is the album on this project, Im sure it will explain a LOT

As for the flexible conduit, it was aproved when installed, I do know that now days they use different conduit (pvc if buried and hard if above ground.. this one is right at the surface in a very dry area). The 100amp supplies another subpanel that is in my mobile home.

Here is a link that might be useful: electric panel

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 11:27AM
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weedmeister

Tell me I'm wrong. The neutral is the 'strap' that comes down from above from what evidently is the meter. This strap goes behind the insulator and provides the blocks for the white wires.

Ditto on installing a larger ground bar.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 4:43PM
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stompoutbermuda

I added the green wire to another lug that already had a green wire on it. The photos are updated now.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 7:30PM
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petey_racer

So WHAT is that single pole 30A breaker for???
I hope not regular 15A or 20A receptacles.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 7:35PM
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stompoutbermuda

No, no....... it's an RV outlet. Its 3 wire, 30amp. Go to the 2nd page in the album and you will see.

Here is a link that might be useful: 2nd page

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 7:53PM
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petey_racer

Ah, no problem at all. That's about all it cold have been.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2011 at 9:57PM
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etbrown4

In a Sq D homeline panel we have a neutral bar and a ground bar.

Is the neutral bar on the right or left?

We tried a few of the open holes in the bar on the left but the green screw would not start.

Would that mean that we should try an open hole on the bar on the right?

    Bookmark   December 1, 2011 at 6:42PM
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petey_racer

etbrown4, this is a completely unrelated thread.
It's better to just start a new thread with your question.

Same reply as the other message board I saw this.
The bonding screw does not go into one of the holes in the bar. It goes through a hole at the top and into the back box of the panel.

I am really beginning to think they should not sell panels at home centers any more.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2011 at 8:19PM
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Ron Natalie

There is a bonding screw up top where the existing bar. You remove this to use it as a subpanel.

The new bar can be mounted on either side where there is a raised dimple with the tapped hole in it.

    Bookmark   December 2, 2011 at 1:36PM
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