Major Problems with Marvin Integrity Dealer

ribs1August 16, 2012

Hello Everyone,

Just thought I would vent a little. We are in the middle of a major kitchen remodel and decided to upgrade our windows in the process. Because of good reports here, high ratings on consumer reports and just generally liking the windows we decide to go with Marvin Integrity. We were replacing a bay window above the sink, 2 double hungs and a picture window and 2 door walls.

We had 3 different quotes and decided to go with the local factory authorized dealer even though he wasn't the cheapest. We figured that quality of installation and service and support would be better. We could not have been more wrong.

At the time of signing the contract we informed the dealer that we were on a time frame and needed the windows installed before the kitchen installers got to the backsplash as the tile would need to be fitted below and around the bay window. The dealer assured us that he would be able to get the windows installed in no more than 4-5 weeks. The kitchen guys were starting in 8 weeks so we signed the contract. At the time we informed the dealer that we wanted full frame replacement and we did not want to lose any glass area.

After 5 weeks passed, I called the dealer multiple times and didn't here back from him until 2 weeks later. When he finally called he said it would be another 2 weeks. By the time his installers finally showed up it was a full 9 weeks after we signed the contract and he held up our kitchen job.

The day of the install I noticed the installer unpacking the double hung windows. I said to him that they seemed narrower than my old windows. He said not to worry and that they would look great once installed and trimmed.

When I got home I measured my new windows and they were 5 1/2 inches narrower than my old windows and 2 inches shorter. The door walls were 7 inches narrower and 3 1/2 inches shorter than my old windows. Because the windows were so much smaller he had to build them in with 2 x 4s and cover the gaps with a lot of aluminum coil stock. The windows are way to small, the exterior trim looks terrible and the interior trim also looks terrible. Poor miters, 3 inch reveal to meet the paint lines. Just a very bad job.

I called the owner and asked him to take a look and see if we could work it out. He said that he trusted his installers and didn't need to come and see the jobsite. He also said that I worried too much. He then proceeded to make a bunch of snide remarks and tell me how much of a good deal he gave me and tried to make me feel like I should be happy to get what I got for the price I paid.

Later that day my wife took a look at the windows and agreed that they looked worse than our old windows. My wife and I decided to put a stop payment on our check (we paid $4000 up front and $4000 when they started the install)

We could only stop payment on the final payment of $4000.

We called the owner the next morning to inform him that we stopped payment on the check and that we would like him to take a look at the job site. He became irate and said that we were ridiculous and that he had never had a problem before. After he calmed down I informed him again that our new windows were much narrower than before. He said that we were between sizes and that he could install larger windows and increase our openings for an additional charge!!! He said that Marvin Integrity only came in stock sizes!!!

1. He didn't tell us that when we signed the contract

2. I called and confirmed with Marvin that their windows can be ordered in any size to the 64th of an inch.

A week later the owner left me a message demanding his balance. After another few days he sent me a past due notice with interest.

Finally over the last few days we started speaking with our attorney and decided to send the owner a demand letter asking for a full refund so I can have another contractor replace the windows.

This has been a total nightmare for us. This contractor mislead us the entire way and I feel he is trying to just steal my money. I have learned something from this experience though.

1. Get every little thing in writing and I mean everything. Our contract was intentionally vague.

2. Pay in installments like 10% up front, 10% on deliver, 30% on job finishing and 50% on final inspection. I will never pay 50% up front again, and I almost paid the other 50% before the job was finished.

3. Do your research and look at other completed jobs and ask around a lot. I went with this guy just because he was the certified Marvin installer.

We'll see how this ends up. We gave the dealer a chance to make it right and he refused so now we are trying to get a refund. I fear this one might end up in court.

Thanks for letting me vent. On a side not, everything else with our kitchen remodel is going great.

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EcoStarRemodel

Have you contacted the factory? If not, that would be my next step.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 9:34PM
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ribs1

I contacted the factory a few days ago. Local rep got in touch with me today. He said he wasn't sure what he could do, but did say he would contact the dealer.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 9:41PM
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Jumpilotmdm

That's quite a vent.
What is contacting the factory going to do? You are not their customer.
Did the contract have window sizes in it? If no, then what did you sign? It had to have some reference to size.
I applaud your specifying the full frame replacement and your preference for not losing glass size is typical and should have not been a surprise for the dealer.
How could he not know that they are available on the 64th, which was also a surprise for me but the last Integrity I installed was in 1996? Either way, building in the openings like that is a VERY questionable practice in today's market of almost any window available in any size [not true 15 years ago].
I hope you still use Integrity but find someone who is not afraid of custom sizes and does better on the lead time.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 9:49PM
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ribs1

Contract was very vague. Contract specified windows size, but he measured. Not me. While he was measuring I let him know that I wanted full frame replacement windows and that I did not want to lose any glass area at all. I was very clear with him. The contract however was not very clear. I trusted him because he was a factory certified installer. He also has a nice showroom and talked a good game at first. His pricing was about in the middle. My mistake was trusting him.

At the time I did not know anything about window sizing and measuring. This is why I hired a contractor and a factory certified contractor at that. I thought I could trust that he would take care of me.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 10:07PM
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ribs1

Jumpilotmdm,

I still like the windows themselves. I plan to have them replaced with Integrity windows by a different dealer. I also plan to replace the rest of the windows in my house with Integrity as well. I do expect some help from the factory in resolving this issue since I had them installed by a factory certified dealer.
I think the factory rep should be able to put some pressure on the dealer.

    Bookmark   August 16, 2012 at 10:25PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

Wow. This thing went wrong on so many levels.

I agree that he factory rep should have been called so that they can put pressure on the vendor as well as be made aware of how their product is being represented by their dealers. That is completely justifiable.

Sounds like a complete drop of the ball on a measurement and installation side of the issue. Measuring for a full tear out install in the midst of a kitchen demo is about as easy as them come.

Sorry this turned out to be a complete nightmare but I think you are going about it correctly.

So you replaced a bay window with a 3 window unit (double hung - picture - double hung). What was the "door wall"?

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 7:25AM
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ribs1

windowsonwashington,
I replaced a bay window with another bay window.
I also replaced a picture flanked by 2 double hungs.
Also replaced 2 sliding doors as part of this project.
6 openings total.

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 10:07AM
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lkbum_gw

I don't know if this adds much, but we had Integrity's installed and had a problem after installation. Our dealers repair person was having some problems with the fix and the salesman immediately contacted the factory for assistance. A Marvin rep came out with the local distributors repair guy to fix the problem. We are in Atlanta, the dealer was AVI and our salesman was Peter Diehl. These guys are first class and Marvin was ultra-responsive.

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 11:33AM
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HomeSealed

+1 on the previous comments. It sounds like your dealer really dropped the ball here. A few things to take away:
-factory certifications are nearly meaningless
-get all of the project details in writing
-choose a dealer that you trust

    Bookmark   August 17, 2012 at 11:48PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

+1 to HomeSealed feedback. I have probably seen worse labor out of "Factory Trained" installers than most well trained handymen.

That pricing you go initially is also a bit lean once you figure in the doors and all the other stuff.

That would indicate to me that they don't have the right folks measuring, ordering, or installing them.

Sorry this is such a nightmare.

    Bookmark   August 18, 2012 at 12:50PM
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ribs1

Still have not heard back from this dealer. I sent a demand letter 10 days ago.
Maybe he is hoping I just go away.
I won't post the name of the dealer here yet as this is still unresolved but if any of you are considering buying Marvin Windows in the Detroit area I would be happy to let you know who this dealer is via private messaging.
I don't want anyone else to have to deal with this nonsense.

    Bookmark   August 25, 2012 at 4:27PM
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Debbi Branka

Ribs, I don't know how to private message you, but I am looking at Marvin and I'm in Detroit. Please email me!

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 12:04PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

Deb,

You are correct. Ribs needs to supply her information for contact to the Garden Web first.

He/She can click on your "My Page" and email you directly though.

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 2:26PM
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ribs1

Hello Deb,
I just updated my profile to allow message sending.
You should be able to click on My Page and send me a message.
Please post here again if it doesn't work and I'll try to figure something out.
Thanks

    Bookmark   August 28, 2012 at 10:21PM
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ribs1

Well Everyone,
Here is the latest issue in my saga,
This dispute has gone on far too long.

The dealer responded offering a full refund as long as he could come and tear out the old windows.
What would I do in the mean time until I could get someone else to install new windows? Put plastic over the holes? There is no way I could get another window company to show up on the same day, or even be willing to get in the middle of this dispute.
Now the guy got a collections attorney involved. Just got a collection letter today.
Looks like we might be going to court over this one.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 10:53PM
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EcoStarRemodel

Why don't you agree to let the dealer remove the windows? Seems simple enough to purchase new windows, schedule the install and then call the Marvin dealer and tell him what day he needs to be there. Surely the new dealer and the old dealer can coordinate something. That's a better solution than going to court.

    Bookmark   September 21, 2012 at 11:51PM
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ribs1

The old dealer showed up over a month late when he first installed the windows. What would lead me to believe that he would show up on time now?
If he doesn't show up then I need to get a new quote from the new dealer including tear out.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 8:40AM
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ribs1

The old dealer showed up over a month late when he first installed the windows. What would lead me to believe that he would show up on time now?
If he doesn't show up then I need to get a new quote from the new dealer including tear out.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 8:41AM
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mikeb33

Perhaps the new installed could carefully remove the old windows to be picked up by the first dealer. Have your attorney write a letter accepting his offer for refund, allowing for time to get new ones ordered and installed. Also note int he letter to call off collection proceedings.

Sounds like he may have originally just ordered stock sizes to save money(either his or yours) and perhaps took a long time because of credit problems with suppliers. It's very scarey to think your deposit for your job is used to pay past due supplier bills on the last job. Then he can't order your supplies until the next guy puts a deposit down.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 6:53PM
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ribs1

MikeB,
This is what we are planning to do. We are crafting the next letter right now.
Basically, I am unwilling to let the original installer back on my property because of difficulty coordinating him with new installer, and because I have no confidence in the previous installer, and he treated us poorly.
I do not want to see him again.

Thanks for the advice.

    Bookmark   September 22, 2012 at 11:07PM
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lee5600

I have been unsuccessful in trying to access your email. We live in Detroit area and are very interested in obtaining name of Marvin dealer who has given you trouble. How can I get this information?

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 9:37AM
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Debbi Branka

Lee, you need to add your email address to your "my page" so people can contact you. I too am in Detroit and had Marvin windows installed. I am extremely happy with the windows and the installer. I talked to Ribs a year ago and learned the dealer to avoid, although I can't really remember the name right this moment. I think they were out of Belleville or Ypsi area. I can refer you to the place I used if you'd like. I can email you pix of the install too if you'd like. If you click "my page" above, you should be able to email me directly if you want.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 10:09AM
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ribs1

Hello Deb,
Please shoot me an email with the installer you chose.
I still need to do the rest of the windows in my house.
Thanks

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 10:59AM
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Debbi Branka

Ribs - I emailed you. Hopefully you get it.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 11:26AM
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lee5600

Thanks Deb. I missed check spot for people to send me email. I have now checked it off. I also sent you email requesting name of dealer you liked. Thanks for your help.

Ribs1, if u would please send me name of problem installer, I would really appreciate it. Thanks.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 2:34PM
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tessaduncan

I'm reviving this thread because II really need to know the name of the Metro Detroit dealer to avoid. ( I have emailed several of the posters with no success).

We just had a quote for Marvin Infinity (8 sliders, 2 casement, one 6 ft doorwall - no grills or fancy stuff) and it came in at @ $24K. Way too much for us. We're trying to line up quotes for the All Ultrex Integrity from other companies. He calls & says that Mar 31 is end of the fiscal year and he's willing to give up his commission so he can make bonus. He's got a "sweet deal" for us. He was pretty high pressure to begin with and he's the first quote we've gotten. Assuming he cuts the price in half (which he implied) is that a good deal? I tend to run in the opposite direction in this situation but DH is afraid we'll miss a "sweet deal".

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 10:29AM
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Debbi Branka

Tessa, I responded to you on my post. None of us can email you back because you didn't check the box in your profile that allows emails.

My company is Laurence Smith Windows & Doors out of Bay City and Bloomfield. My salesman was Scott. They were NOT high pressure at all. I have Integrity All Ultrex. My understanding is that the Infinity is way more expensive. Feel free to email me again and include your own email address so I can respond and I will give you any more info you want. I can send you pictures of the windows too if you'd like.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 11:16AM
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tessaduncan

The box in my profile allowing emails IS checked. Don't know what the problem is. Thank you deb52899 for letting me know. I sent you another email with my address.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 12:07PM
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Debbi Branka

Tessa, Just so you know, the email you sent me from here just now finally allows me to see your email. So the checkmark finally took!

The first email I got from you showed this: Sent By:
"tessaduncan" (gardenweb_user@gardenweb.com) On: Mar 03/21/14 5:37 PM

Today's email showed this: Sent By:
"tessaduncan" (tessaduncanxxxxxx@xxxxxxxxxxxxx.com) On: Mar 03/27/14 12:08 PM (I inserted the xxx to not share your email publicly, but it was the correct email address)

    Bookmark   March 27, 2014 at 12:17PM
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