Is it possible to hinge to a stationary patio door?

pditty1995March 23, 2013

I'm hoping someone here can provide some guidance. I'm building a new house and I wanted a 4 panel door to our outside lanai without jambs between the middle double doors and the stationary doors.

(Stationary - Double Doors - Stationary)
(1 - 2 / 3 - 4)

I ordered the doors through 84 lumber and I told the salesman I wanted it to look just like it was on their website.

http://www.thermatru.com/products/patio/french-hinged-patio-doors/index.aspx

Well after I received the doors they said that configuration (like the one shown on the website) will not actually work. All 4 panels are stationary! I was amazed and felt that it was false advertising. Neither 84 lumber or ThermaTru would allow me to return the $3800 worth of patio doors (Classic Craft Mahogany).

So the question is can I remove the jambs between the double door and the stationary panels and just hinge to the stationary panel? Assuming I build my own header and firmly attach the stationary panels to the one piece header and 1 side jamb? I really want this too look like a 4 panel door without the bulky jambs between the double doors and stationary panels.

Thanks in advace.

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millworkman

Short answer, No. Will leak like a sieve water and air if you can even get that far. Those types of doors are a system that is engineered with special hardware for just this application. Your system is 1000% different. That is why I always recommend reputable dealers and or lumberyards and not box stores (yes I consider 84 a box store) for just these types of reasons..

    Bookmark   March 24, 2013 at 9:08AM
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pditty1995

That certainly sucks. But the door is under a lanai and I could build a mullion (i think that's what its called) to stop the air.

So even that wouldn't work?

I was more concerned about it being sturdy enough.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 1:08PM
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pditty1995

That certainly sucks. But the door is under a lanai and I could build a mullion (i think that's what its called) to stop the air.

So even that wouldn't work?

I was more concerned about it being sturdy enough.

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 1:10PM
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millworkman

No it would not. What did you order? What was signed off on? What was proposed?

    Bookmark   March 25, 2013 at 2:48PM
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lazy_gardens

Looking at that picture, I see hinges on those "stationary" doors.

http://www.johnsonhardware.com/200rd.htm may be the hardware that makes it happen.

Or consider a multi-slider
http://www.johnsonhardware.com/mdgal.htm

    Bookmark   March 26, 2013 at 9:58PM
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millworkman

Lazy, that picture is not stationary french door that is a double french door unit.

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 9:59AM
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lazy_gardens

True, but it has no jambs and makes the doors work. :)

I think you could open just the two center doors or all four.

There are other oddball door hanging systems that might make it look like the OP wants ...

    Bookmark   March 27, 2013 at 10:53PM
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millworkman

Yes true but with the existing door "system" I do not know if they can be essentially retrofitted in that manner and still have it be weather tight.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 9:05AM
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pditty1995

Wow you guys have some neat ideas and I apologize for not looking at this thread for a few days.

Its probably also important to mention that this house is built with ICF so I essentially have a concrete house with ~12" walls (6.25" concrete and 2.5" of styrofoam insulation on both sides.)

I do think that a large opening to the Lanai would be really really cool. In case you want to see a 3D rendering of the home I'm building you can see it in the link.

Here is a link that might be useful: House

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 4:37PM
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pditty1995

Let me also mention that I would be ok with a sliding door or folding door system as long as I don't have too look at the big bulky door jambs and it doesn't cost me an arm and a leg.

    Bookmark   March 28, 2013 at 4:41PM
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brickeyee

There are numerous ways you could have such a door set assembled.

One of the biggest issues is the weight hanging on the final set of hinges to the house framing.

Putting some casters at the hinge points and ends of the double panels would help take some load off the hinges.

Use the right casters and they could likely be hidden in the bottom apron of the doors.

You then just need a smooth enough surface t\for them to operate on.

i would doubt you will find what you want from a major distributor, but you may be able to purchase pieces as 'slab doors' and than have them modified.

Soss hinges in larger sizes would would likely work well, but this is a large movable structure with significant weight.

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 3:49PM
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lazy_gardens

As long as you are OK with sliders, a stacked slider could get all 4 doors into the space of one when open. Or if it's the jambs blocking a view, the center-supported folding doors might work.

You need to talk to a real door company and hardware rep to get more information ... Johnson Hardware might know someone.

It's going to be a major source of heat gain or loss, just because of the glass area. What city will this be built in?

    Bookmark   March 30, 2013 at 4:32PM
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lazy_gardens

http://www.hafele.com/us/products/folding-sliding-french-doors.asp

This might work for you

    Bookmark   April 7, 2013 at 10:03AM
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