Peninsula outlet

nugentcnFebruary 27, 2010

I know a peninsula at least 12" x 24" requires one outlet. We won't have a raised area along one side with a breakfast bar like lots of people do, so there isn't a small backsplash to put one in.

I've never heard of anyone contemplating putting it in the wall abutting the end of the peninsula, just above the countertop like it would be above any other countertop. (It's not an "island" so it's anchored to a wall at one end). Why couldn't I do this instead of putting it below the countertop inside the peninsula itself?

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groundrod

If it is a peninsula you would need an extra receptacle. Since you don't say how long it is, greater than 24" long would be a peninsula. You seem to know the rules, so what you are asking is do the rules apply to me.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 12:41PM
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nugentcn

I don't quite understand what you're asking. I actually don't know the rules and that's why I'm asking.

So you're saying I can't put an outlet in the wall above the countertop? It has to be IN the peninsula itself somehow? If so, where can/can't it go? What do most people do? How do you deal with wires being inside cabinets and how do you keep the box and wires out of the way of drawers?

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 2:39PM
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globe199

In my grandma's kitchen there's a peninsula receptacle. I removed the top drawer so I could see what's going on.

It's in a metal box with exposed romex going somewhere. I thought the metal box was a good idea, but the exposed romex was a little disconcerting. The place was built in 1996.

My house has an almost identical peninsula, but no receptacle (kitchen redone in 2005 before we bought the place). I want to install a receptacle. I thought about using a metal box and some form of conduit going thru the floor to a circuit below that I can tie into. Just haven't worked up the nerve to drill thru the bottom of nice cabinets and then thru nice tile :)

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 2:45PM
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spencer_electrician

As crazy as it looks and often assumed not to code by inspectors. As long as the romex is not subject to physical damage, no conduit is needed. This interpretation can be decided as anything from where a forklift may run into the cable to locating it where a cookie tray could hit it. There is no specific requirement that the romex be ran inside the wall, could staple it right across the finished ceiling if you really wanted to, I won't though. In a cabinet, I usually use a piece of flex conduit or wire that particular outlet with MC cable (spiral metal with wire pre-installed). Not worth the trouble for hard pipe. Funny thing is, really flex, mc cable, EMT metal conduit, sch. 40 pvc conduit, and plain romex all have the same classification as not suitable for locations subject to physical damage. That's why code wise some are just fine with romex with no conduit. The added protection from using flex or mc instead is a personal level of protection added, not necessarily a code written way of protection. For code recognized physical protection, we would be running rigid metal conduit, bending it, and threading it for the connection to the metal box, like to see someone actually do that.

Also don't just tap a circuit, that receptacle you are thinking about adding needs either a dedicated 20 amp circuit or connect it to one of the existing 20 amp counter top circuits. Because the receptacle you are adding is required to be on a 20 amp small appliance circuit.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 3:37PM
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groundrod

nugenten
The size of your peninsula is still a mystery to me so I will do the best with the information I have. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular countertop space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular countertop is measured from the connecting edge. On island and peninsular countertops where the countertop is flat across its entire surface (no backsplashes, dividers, etc.) and there are no means to mount a receptacle within 500 mm (20 in.) above the countertop, such as an overhead cabinet receptacle outlets shall be permitted to be mounted not more than 300 mm (12 in.) below the countertop. Receptacles mounted below a countertop in accordance with this exception shall not be located where the countertop extends more than 150 mm (6 in.) beyond its support base.

    Bookmark   February 27, 2010 at 6:14PM
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nugentcn

groundrod, the exact dimensions of the peninsula are still being determined. Right now it looks like it will be roughly 3' x 5'.

I still don't understand why people don't put the outlet in the wall at the end of the peninsula

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 9:10AM
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groundrod

The wall mounted receptacle only covers a counter that extends 24" from the wall. Since a peninsula extends more than 24" from the wall, it requires at least one extra receptacle. The National Electric Code tells you, not in so many words, that the peninsula cannot be served by a wall mounted receptacle. Maybe you should be discussing this with your electrician as he or she would be familiar with this rule and others you may not be aware of.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 12:01PM
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snoonyb

"I still don't understand why people don't put the outlet in the wall at the end of the peninsula So you would be fine with the persons between you and the toaster handling your food as they past it to you, or draping a 7' cord across, around and though the places set.

Some times the code makes perfect cents.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 1:38PM
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christophersprks

Just do it!
As per NEC 2002 still currently used in most of Long Island New York (and probably doesn't differ in 2008)- 210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.(c)(3) Peninsular Counter Spaces. At least one receptacle outlet shall be installed at each peninsular counter space with a long dimension of 600 mm (24 in.) or greater and a short dimension of 300 mm (12 in.) or greater. A peninsular counter-top is measured from the connecting edge.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 4:55PM
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nugentcn

Oh, I get it now. I'm having one of those "duh" moments. I guess when I hear people say peninsulas require one outlet, it really means at least one extra besides one on the wall. It sounds like it's really no different than any other countertop space--you're not trying to find a place to put just one, but one every 4' or less along the peninsula length.

Thanks for all of the help. Based on experiences reading other areas of the gardenweb forum, I expected my experience here to be a little friendlier and less patronizing, though.

    Bookmark   February 28, 2010 at 6:43PM
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davidro1

nonetheless, when you re read your threadstarter in a year or two you'll laugh at the confusion you created. Simpler sentences would have helped. One little concept per sentence. e.g. will a wall outlet be enough.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 9:03AM
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nugentcn

davidrol, I guarantee that if I had written only, "will a wall outlet be enough," lots of people would have asked me to clarify what I meant. Take a look at some other people's posts in other forums (or even other areas of the gardenweb forum) and you will see that my post here is one of the shorter ones out there.

With all due respect, I don't think I'll be taking writing advice from someone who has several grammatical errors in their own post.

    Bookmark   March 2, 2010 at 9:18PM
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davidro1

have you ever been told that you've developed an ability to receive criticism gracefully?

have you ever been told that you accurately read the post you're responding to?

    Bookmark   March 3, 2010 at 2:28AM
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snoonyb

And were they write?

    Bookmark   March 6, 2010 at 8:30PM
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mikemr

Love this forum!

Here's my question: our 1978-vintage "open-plan" kitchen/dining/greatroom has a 4ft x 3ft countertop that extends into "free space" above the floor. It's an extension of the countertop on the base cabinets that run along a wall but there's no base cabinet beneath it, just a post to support the far end (i.e., it "grows" from the end of a wall). We call it the "breakfast bar" and do 99% of all our meals there since it's so convenient and we can put bar stools on both sides.

Based on my poor description (sorry, wish I just could draw it), is this a "peninsula?" It doesn't have a receptacle in it or under it, but there's one in the backsplash just before the end of the wall out of which the bar "grows."

I'm wondering if this was OK per code in 1978 but not now ... which might create problems if we want to replace the cabinets/countertops/appliances one of these days.

Thanks in advance, as always.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2010 at 10:38AM
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Billl

Typically, most areas have a fairly broad interpretation of the "replace in kind" building exemptions. eg if you replace the toilet, you don't have to delve any farther into plumbing. You could surely replace the countertops without being required to rewire the kitchen. However, if you basically do a kitchen remodel and replace all the cabinets/countertops etc. you should spend the small amount of money that it would take to bring the electrical up to modern code. The typical kitchen of today is pretty different from that of 1978.

    Bookmark   March 15, 2010 at 9:03AM
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