Integrity full Ultrex and painting the exterior

lzerarcApril 18, 2012

I am working on a project and I am need of specific exterior colors (black or ebony). I want to spec the Integrity line. The interiors can be white on some, so the full Ultrex is ideal choice with the black exterior color. However some locations I want to have a wood interior (such as living and dining space). Without going to the Marvin Premiums to get the black exterior, has anyone painted the exteriors of the Integrity windows? I know it can be done and they post instructions, but I am after some feedback. I would have them sprayed if I go that route.

The original option was to go with Pella Prolines with black exterior, but I think I will not spec those. Eagle is also an option, but I do not like the performance ratings of them.

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CWirick

Have you looked at Milgard? I went with their Ultra fiberglass windows. Ebony exterior, ebony interior.

    Bookmark   April 18, 2012 at 11:25PM
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WindowDog

Can't you get the same color on the outside whether Wood Ultrex or All-Ultrex? They would both be Integrity, correct?

    Bookmark   April 19, 2012 at 2:07AM
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lzerarc

now you would think you could right?....but according to their website and spec book, the wood ultrex and full ultrex come in the same color except all ultrex comes in 1 additional color, ebony for some reason. I suppose I need to talk to my rep about if I can get the wood ultrex in ebony as well.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2012 at 9:28AM
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lori_inthenw_gw

I went through this same thought process (see link below). Got the ebony Ultrex put in the freestanding garage already. Looks fine,but I didn't want the white fiberglass interiors in the house. Nope, no ebony available with the wood (pine) interior. Now planning a trip to a showroom to see the Milgard black on black that CWirick referred me to (do you have pix of those yet?-- I would love to see yours installed!)

I was also considering getting a dark brown Ultrex with the wood interior and painting them black. A Marvin rep even kindly posted the "recipe" for the ebony color on the previous thread. But I just don't think that's how I want to spend my summer vacation! Plus one of the points was low maintenance...

I did have one showroom guy tell me that Milgard had a signifcant upcharge for the black interior, but I have not gotten all the pricing done yet. I may even switch to a douglas fir interior if that's true, but I thought the black would look good in a contemporary house.

Here is a link that might be useful: previous thread on painting ultrex

    Bookmark   April 19, 2012 at 11:43AM
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lzerarc

thanks for the information. I am not sure who or where to contact for Milgard. Their website does not give me a dealer in my area.
White interiors does not bother me that much as we were planning on painting them various colors depending on the room. The Marvin premiums for the possible wood windows would run around 40% more, or roughly $2k. Taping and painting windows definately it time consuming however.
The dark bronze MIGHT work on the exterior, but I was really after the black look. Here is a link to my blog about the project. The rendering appears to be a medium grey for some reason. The stone would have some tans in it but mostly a gray/black blend.

Here is a link that might be useful: home blog

    Bookmark   April 19, 2012 at 12:25PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

We went to a home show in March and spent a bit of time talking to the Marvin rep. He painted the outside of his Ultrex windows to get the color he wanted (used the pine interior). He recommended that approach over painting the interior for some reason-- had to do with going around all the hardware or removing it or something.

The dark bronze is pretty dark. I could probably have made that work if I had not already used the ebony on the detached garage.

The Milgard web site is kind of lame. I had to fill out one of those online forms, then a couple of different dealers got back to me within a day or so. I was able to communicate with them about what they have in their showroom, so I have found a place to go see the black on black fiberglass in person.

    Bookmark   April 19, 2012 at 4:05PM
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CWirick

Our house isn't finished yet and still a mess - photos right now wouldn't do the windows justice. I love them. Yes, black on black was a significant upcharge. But I wasn't confident in the quality of having the interiors painted afterwards. I love the factory baked-on finish. Like you, I couldn't bear white window interiors. Particularly for casements where the white would be seen when the windows are open.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 1:17AM
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lori_inthenw_gw

Actually, in our garage anyway, you can see the white from the exterior even with the windows closed if you are at any angle other than head-on. Maybe I'll figure out how to post photos here before long and illustrate this!

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 5:37PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

CWirick, how are you trimming out the black windows on the interior? That's another variable we're still struggling with-- there are numerous options. Lzerac is planning to use wood, we might do that or do a drywall wrap with minimal trim to keep the contemporary look going. Sorry if this is considered a hijack-- it is all related to me, but maybe only in my own mind...

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 5:41PM
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lzerarc

the plan is to use gyp returns and then use wood flooring for the window sill. We would then either paint or stain the windows depending on the room.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 5:54PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

Lzerac, that sounds like a nice-looking option. Our GC has done some really nice versions of this, but then he told us that the simplicity is sort of deceptive and it is actually somewhat labor-intensive to get them really clean-looking at the corners where they wrap.

Now I am going to practice adding a photo for the first time. This is what the black outside, white inside Integrity looks like:

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 6:19PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 6:21PM
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windowsonwashington

That is a sharp look there but I hope they touch up all the nail heads.

Looks sharp though.

Are the nail heads part of the stylistic part?

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 6:33PM
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lzerarc

I do gyp returns on about all of my commercial project. Its simple, and the cost of it is typically less then a finish carpenter framing out and trimming the windows.
I spend a bunch of time at the store today. After looking closer and thinking about the color options, I might be leaning more on the dark brown color now instead. The idea was to match the fascias and soffits with the window colors. I think black fascias and soffits might be too much, but the brown (dark bronze) will warm it up slightly, yet still give off that super dark look I am after. There is stone on the front with a black, grey, tan hue mix, so the dark brown might actually pull everything together nicer then a black would anyway.
worse case I could always paint them later I guess.......

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 7:19PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

yes, windowsonwashington, we did finally get around to touching up those nail heads. That first stain color was just wrong and did not cover adequately, so it all got painted again. It is no fun trying to match blacks, either! I guess I never took a final picture after all the painting.

Lzerarc, I saw a dark bronze on a house recently that I would have sworn was black, but yes, it was just warmer. I think you might like it.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 10:57PM
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CWirick

Lori, we're going simple on the interior. Probably just the drywall wrap. The black frames seem sufficiently dramatic on their own. I love how they look like picture frames for the scenery outside. We're going for a modern industrial farmhouse vibe and the black windows have turned out to be critical. We love them. We're also doing red siding. Such a great look with the black windows. They really stand out in the sea of beige and white window frames on every other house in the neighborhood. We get a lot of comments from the neighbors.

    Bookmark   April 20, 2012 at 11:15PM
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lzerarc

Pella's Impervia fiberglass is available as a solid color all the way through. I can go dark brown/dark brown if I want to, unlike the Ultrex. I might go that route and not worry about having to finish the interior or the exterior. We are doing super dark stained cabinets in the kitchen, so the dark frames would look nice on the interior as well.
CW point about dark frames framing the view is also a good one. All of our picture frames in our house are black or espresso!

    Bookmark   April 25, 2012 at 11:28PM
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windowsonwashington

I wouldn't recommend the Impervia in any capacity and certainly not in comparison to anything that Milgard or Marvin make.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 11:50AM
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lzerarc

can you elaborate on that? I have spec'd them on some of our commercial projects without any issue in any way.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 3:33PM
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windowsonwashington

When you see the two products side by side, there is very little comparison.

In a commercial realm, I would specify something even beefier like something from Inline.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 4:24PM
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lzerarc

I have cut aways of both the Integrity and the Imprevia at my office. While there is some visual texture difference, they both have suited us well on projects. On most commercial projects (our schools for example) we use full aluminum windows. For light commercial (assisted living facilities, libraries, small offices, etc) we have used both Integrity and Impervia. I tend to avoid wood clad unless its requested.
The Inline windows I have seen have sloppy miter joints where they smear caulk over them to seal instead of injection molding.
However even though I am not a fan of vinyl, I am also considering Intus windows in their triple pane, tilt and turn design.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 5:03PM
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windowsonwashington

Regardless of the cut aways, the Impervias that I have personally handled did not have the heft or the stability of the Infinity by comparison.

I don't have structural data for the Impervia on hand but it appeared to be a more malleable window than the Infinity.

Perhaps you have looked at and older or poorly constructed Inline but if you are specifying these for commercial applications, the Inlines are so far superior from a structural, DP, water and air infiltration standpoint that you would question they are made of the same materials.

    Bookmark   April 26, 2012 at 7:25PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

CWirick, I hope you will post some pix of your windows soon! I have not been able to find any black-on-black windows to look at yet and can't find pix online either.

    Bookmark   April 29, 2012 at 12:30PM
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lzerarc

ww- you are right. We want dark/black frames, and I am pretty sure we want wood interior. We have not decided on painting or staining, and it could vary per room. So if we select a wood interior, at least we have the option to paint or stain, unlike full fiberglass. However the wood clad fiberglass options just do not have too many colors to pick from. I would also prefer triple pane windows to go with the super insulated shell.

I have also not ruled out alum clad exterior windows. Eagle makes a triple pane option and they have recently redesigned their sills to use Fibrex as a thermal break and better water management. They come at a MUCH lower price then the Marvin Tripane. Plus they are made in my home state. We installed double hungs in my parents house 15 years ago and they look and work great. I installed 8 more in a large addition this past year from them. Very solid, sturdy window.

    Bookmark   May 1, 2012 at 9:32AM
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CWirick

Lori, sorry for the wait but I finally snagged a couple of pics. Don't mind the siding - it's filthy and awaiting another coat of paint (long story). The windows are filthy too. Just waiting to finish this house so we can clean it up and move in! I love the black windows. No regrets whatsoever.

These are the Milgard Ultra fiberglass, black exterior and black interior. I would have snagged some interior photos but the painters are busy masking everything off inside.

    Bookmark   May 7, 2012 at 6:03PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

wow, CWirick, thanks for posting those! I think the black is really elegant. I saw some in the showroom on Friday.

Is this Twilight or Black Bean? The ones I saw I thought were black were actually Black Bean, which in the sample they gave me looks like a dark dark charcoal, and the finish is more matte than glossy. The Twilight is blacker and glossier, but she said it would be more matte on the inside, which is fine.

Also, did the big window on the right come ganged in one piece? It looks really nice to me. I bet it is nice on the inside looking out, too.

Your house is the color of our detached garage, which also has black windows. Looks like you are really on the home stretch-- I'm envious-- we have plans submitted now, foundation to start in Sept.

Thanks again for taking the time to post these-- I'll keep an eye out for your interiors, but I'm pretty sure this is the direction we're going. Now that I've fallen for them, I hope I don't get too much sticker shock when I found out the magnitude of the upcharge for the black interior...

    Bookmark   May 7, 2012 at 9:30PM
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CWirick

The only black for the Milgard Ultra line (which I have) is called Matte Black. Black Bean and Twilight are in the Essence series.

I'm not sure if the right front window came in 3 pieces or one. The side windows are operable, the center one is not. That's the master bedroom window. And if you look real closely you'll see the reflection of a spectacular unobstructed mountain view. :)

The real shame is I couldn't afford to do black windows in the basement, so there are ugly white ones there. :(

    Bookmark   May 7, 2012 at 11:32PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

Oh, thanks-- I guess I got confused about the color choices because we were talking about both lines at the same time. The interior matte black I saw actually matched the Black Bean color perfectly, not that it matters-- they can call it whatever they like, I like it!

I find it not always easy to interpret the details from the web site. Do they have a set of standard sizes you had to choose from or did you go with custom sizes? If so, extra charges for that? Your view does look fantastic (and I can't see your white basement windows from here.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 1:11AM
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lzerarc

CWirick
great looking house! interesting brick details. Love the black windows and fascia lines.
I am curious though, your plan looks like it could be potentially interesting. Is the large space out in front the living room? any chance of posting a plan?

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 8:51AM
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CWirick

lzerarc, I'll work on getting a sketch of the plan - not sure what the architect would think about that. The large "room" you see on the left side of the house is actually a two-car side-load garage. The third-car single is to the left of that. Inside the front door is the piano space, divided from the great room by the stairway downstairs. The right side is the master bedroom, with the master bath and closet inline behind it. Laundry, half-bath and mud room are right inside the interior garage door.

It's a very open plan. Kids' bedrooms are in the finished basement. Only the master bedroom is on the main floor. Large, open great room/kitchen on the main, large, open rec space in the basement.

The space above the garage is a large work-at-home office/exercise room.

We thought long and hard about the layout and are happy with it right now - we'll see how we feel after actually living in it for a while. ;)

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 6:07PM
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CWirick

My one regret so far is not going one panel wider on the porch window. It's a killer view and I should have maximized it. The office above the garage originally just had the center window on the plan. After it was framed I thought it a crime not to take more advantage of the view, so we added the two windows to the sides. Wish I had done something similar on the porch.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 6:12PM
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lzerarc

no need to post anything, i got the idea. Was just curious if that was a living room space to the left and a loft space above. thanks

    Bookmark   May 8, 2012 at 6:52PM
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lori_inthenw_gw

CWirick-- I was just re-visiting this thread. Do you happen to have any photos of the black interiors of your windows? Are you happy with them now that you've been in the house a little while?

    Bookmark   September 13, 2012 at 10:38AM
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