This is so difficult...,and frustrating.

charmed1July 3, 2009

Well it's almost my BF and my 10 months anniversary, things are getting pretty serious. I love him so much, he is respectful of me, he supports me in anything and everything that I do and we are just in a generally happy relationship. But his BM is a nightmare and it is driving me insane! They were broken up when they discovered that she was pregnant, he decided that their relationship was too far gone to make things work but he vowed to be there for her and their baby every step of the day. She refuses to work because as she puts it "she didn't ask to fall pregnant", she studies through correspondence which means that she doesn't go to class like at a normal university.

We study through the same university, yet I work a full time job and study. My BF pays for her place and basically everything else. A few weeks ago my BF and I went on a weekend away and she called when we just left, their daughter had run out of wet wipes. She totally flipped out when he told her that he couldn't go buy the wet wipes as he was already outside of town. Come on, surely she could have gotten the wet wipes herself!! BM is also still bitter about the break up, and I don't blame her, it sucks to break up with someone and then find out you're sucks even worse when that person has moved on with their lives. She texts him repeatedly sometimes, how he hurt her, how she hates him and when he ignores she sends more texts asking him why he is ignoring her. I understand that they have a child together and I understand that they have to be in contact and if every single text she sent him was about their daughter I would be fine, it isn't though and that's whats driving me mad. BF then gets upset with her and it affects the time that we spend together!!

BM also told BF that we should just get married and have our own kids and leave hers alone. I can only imagine what she must feel, she has had a raw deal but I didn't cause the break up, I started dating him much later and his involvement with me never comes in the way of the time that he spends with his daughter.

If she was a bit more independant I would feel a bit better about the situation but she is dependant on him for everything and like I said just refuses to do anything. BF and I argue sometimes because he wants to keep everyone happy but that's just not going to happen! When we first started dating he said that we should give her time to get used to the idea that he has a girlfriend, nearly 10 months later and still nothing, now he says that she'll get used to us once were engaged, when were engaged he'll probably say things will get better once were married!! BM obviously resents the fact that he has moved on and I hate to be a pessimist but I don't see this situation getting any better. BF is great about calming my fears but often he doesn't want to rock the boat with BM that he basically plays to her tune. He told me last night that I need to help him draw the line with her, but what can I possibly do????

My sister told me to think about things carefully before we get engaged (we have been talking about it), she says that I have no kids and that I should think about whether I or not I am willing to deal with this for the rest of my life. I love my boyfriend with all my heart but sometimes I just don't know if I want to deal with BM and her crap for the rest of my life...

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You will for the rest of your life, and it will get worse. I hope you will not allow anyone to give you hope and convince you that it won't be so bad because it will. You just have to decide if you want to deal with it or not.

One example of it getting worse is BF actually drawing the line on her, and the way for him to start doing that is to tell her she is not welcome to phone or text him anything that does not directly pertain to their child. She does this because she's angry with him. Once he tells her she can't do it anymore, she will become more angry and lash out in all kinds of ways. She has the strings to pull and will yank him (and you) in every direction possible. You will feel even more frustrated at her gall and her being able to have so much control over you, him, your life, his life, and your life together, and he will never get a handle on the situation. Every time he tries, she will get worse.....again.....and again. If you are having doubts about wanting "to deal with BM and her crap for the rest of my life" then decide now if you want to or not because you will have to. There is no doubt about that.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 11:10AM
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You're young. Run. Run fast. Listen to your mom and sister -- they care about you. I love kids, but if anyone thinks being a mother is the hardest job in the world, tell them, no a stepmom is. It will not get better as child gets older. There will be fights over nursery school, day care, then ballet lessons, travel soccer, then SAT tutoring.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 11:14AM
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"I love kids, but if anyone thinks being a mother is the hardest job in the world, tell them, no a stepmom is."

Well said, Kkny -- and a valuable insight that will be much appreciated, no doubt, by the many dedicated SMs here.

I'm guessing your BF is reacting the way he is out of fear of causing a scene. And if so, that's NO way to live, because the above posters are right -- it will get worse. The only antidote for that that I know of is to ask yourself "What would I do if I weren't afraid of BM's reaction?" In other words, "What is the correct response?" that is NOT motivated or constrained by that fear.

If he can do that -- and it will take some time -- you may see a change for the better as BM learns what will and won't fly. It'll probably get worse before it gets better -- think of re-training a toddler who is prone to tantrums -- but it's worth askinghim to try.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 11:31AM
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Sweeby, even in the best of situations, OP should never forget, her DH will be supporting another child. Her ability to have kids and be a SAHM may be impacted becuase her DH will be supporting the child. Maybe he can make the relationship better, but that wont cure all problems.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 11:41AM
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And if you decide that you can handle all of the advice given, then you must decide not to resent the BM.
Because resentment is the breeding ground for failure and heartache. It sounds as though you are very understanding of her feelings, which is I applaud. Is there a way that you might communicate your support of her so that she feels less threatened?

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 12:31PM
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I agree with most of the above, but I don't think you'd necessarily have to run. Thermometer gave a good example of how things will get worse, it's inevitable.

However, lots of us are in situations like that and we don't all run, we're trying to deal with it the best we can. Just realise that you are in for a bit of a ride, and accept all help and advice you can get on how to deal with it best.

Obviously the dynamics have to change. Your BF is still in a relationship with BM, even though he doesn't live with her in the same house. That is something that BF will have to put a stop to. He asked for your help, but it's up to him to set new boundaries. All you can do to help is be there for him. Support him.

And I don't understand the rush to get married, not by you personally but more in general. I was shot down in flames on another forum because we've been engaged for about a year and we're not planning to get married till 2012. People telling me that I need to get real, FDH is obviously not serious about it bla bla bla.
So I don't understand. We made the commitment, which is nice, and now we wait till we have enough money to do it how we want it, but a new car and a new kitchen (weehoe) are first on the list.
I really don't see why getting married is such a big deal, just my personal opinion. I guess I would wait because you've got enough going on.

And from a practical point of view I'd say your BF might need some money to get a court order drawn up, which is a priority. People who can agree on the raising of the kids after they split up don't need a court order, all other people do!

BF is trying to avoid the inevitable, because that is what it is. Unless he's going to continue this 'relationship' with BM until she gets a new BF herself. And when she does she'll probably decide that your BF should leave them alone, the new stepdad can manage just fine thank you.

So that is another reason why BF needs the court order asap. When you are dealing with a manipulative person you cannot afford to go without one. He really can't.

    Bookmark   July 3, 2009 at 9:44PM
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I really do not like the fact that this lady is not working and your bf is fully supporting her. He pays for her home?? And she calls him to go get wipes?? This is too much!!! There is no reason why she can not work....many people with children do work. DO NOT mix finances with your bf while he is supporting his ex. He needs to get this mess straightened out. And he needs to make bm a little more self sufficient by cutting off all this monetary support. He should pay child support...a fair amount...but not be fully supporting this lady!

DO NOT get engaged or married while this is all going on. Marriage will not change this situation, it will only make things worse for you. If you want to be with this guy you can continue to be with him while he straightens this all out and marry in the future, but do not rush into it!

As for bm's attitude....I doubt it will ever change. So find ways to deal with it if you plan on being around. Otherwise you will loose your sanity getting worked up over things she does. I say this from experience :)

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 12:35PM
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how old is his baby?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 2:48PM
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Mom2emall, why is it wife #2s business if mom works or not. I agree not best situation for OP, but to encourage a man to force the mom to work -- not very nice.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 3:57PM
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yeah... not very nice!!!

therefore, how can mom expect dad to work???? If mom doesn't have to contribute toward the child, why should dad?

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 6:16PM
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Ima, isnt mom the one taking care of a small child? If the child needs wipes, I assume small. Is this part of the SM action plan. First, get Dad to cut down support. Second, work on dad paying for SMs kids (not in this case, she doesnt appear to have any, but in general).

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 6:35PM
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KKNY, You've exposed our scheme! We have a SM action plan and you figured it out... you are SO wise!


If you decide to stay with this guy... he NEEDS to get an order of paternity & support. He NEEDS to have a written order of his rights & obligation. He NEEDS to pay his support on time and see his child as scheduled. and then he needs to set his boundaries with his ex.

This way, there will be no need to fight or argue over anything.. not nursery school, day care, ballet lessons, travel soccer, or SAT tutoring. When he pays his legal obligation.. these EXTRAS, he can contribute to if he WANTS, unless a court says he needs to. As long as he is doing what the court says, there is no need to fight with the ex over these things. He needs to take control of his life again and if BM wants more than the basics for her child, she'd better learn to play nice... because unless he wants to go over and above, the child will suffer for BM being so demanding. She will not get any easier to get along with.. it will get worse unless she moves on and worries about her life, not his. Sometimes it happens.. sometimes not. Good luck.

    Bookmark   July 4, 2009 at 7:09PM
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First of all, I would like to thank everyone for their very honest opinions.

thermometer-thank you for "giving it to me straight", the situation I find myself in is indeed difficult and in all likelihood will get worse. I will think through it carefully, taking in all that is said on this forum.

KKNY-I assure you that I do not have any "SM action plan" I am quite self sufficient but if for some reason or the other I was financially dependant on my BF, I would go without in a heart beat, I would NEVER want him to not provide for his daughter. Also with regards to BM, I am not asking him to force her to work, I am just looking at this from all angles and considering things that BM is clearly not taking into consideration. What if heaven heaven forbid something happens to my BF, what is she going to do then, how is she going to support her child? He could also lose his job, given the state of the economy that is not unlikely. All I am saying is that she is a parent to that child also and thus should also contribute something.

mom2emall, I also don't like the fact that he even pays for her place. She is only 20 and was living with her mom when she fell pregnant, her mom is a domestic worker and apparently the place they lived in wasn't ideal to raise a child in. My BF got her the place so that his daughter could have a safe and confortable place to grow up in. My only concern is that BM now has a give give give attitude and at some point a line has to be drawn somewhere right?

Finedreams his daughter is going to be 1 year in September.

Ima, thank you for the insight, like I said I am taking it all in, looks like I have some major thinking and decisions to make. As much as I love my boyfriend I will not rush into any major decisions.

Deborah, so true, resentment is not good at all, I am not a bitter or angry person by nature but sometimes BM evokes feelings in me that I never knew existed.

Liesbeth-I do agree that the dynamics need to change. And as for boundaries, they really really need to be set but because things can't go on the way they are now.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 5:17AM
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Charmed, that was more a comment to Ima, than you. But still -- this is not a good situation -- have you spoken to your mother???

I think taking care of a 1 year old can be consuming. Yes people do and work, I worked 3 days a week, when my daughter was that old. If the mother were my daughter, I would want her to get a degree.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 8:45AM
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I have no doubt in my mind that taking care of a 1 year old can be time consuming, however I don't think I mentioned that my BF also pays for a full time nanny to take care of their daughter. So basically BM goes to her 1 study group a day (as I mentioned previously the University is correspondence so they don't offer normal lectures)so basically BM refuses to work or do anything else, she demands that my BF baby sit whenever she says (whether he has work commitments or not, I don't even care if he has plans with me, his baby comes first I get that) and she still doesn't allow him to even spend half a day with his daughter. The only time my boyfriend spends with his daughter is 1-2 hours every few days at BM's house, well that's if she's in a good mood, if she's not then he just doesn't get to see his daughter. Now I can sympathise with her as much (and I really do) as I like but the fact is what she's doing isn't right and is hardly for the good of her daughter.

My mother likes my boyfriend, he is a good person and treats everyone around him with the utmost respect. Of course she does recognise that the situation is tough and she does want me to think things through but I am 25 years old, like she says, she can only guide and support me, she can't tell me what to do. She did however mention to me that although the situation is tough, people deal with it every day and survive.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 9:32AM
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" The only time my boyfriend spends with his daughter is 1-2 hours every few days at BM's house"

I think it is really clear that your BF needs to get some distinct rights and responsibilities set here.

Take it from someone whose DH did not get anything "in writing" with his son's mother for 6 years.

They had an agreement that he had his son 50% of the time, and an agreement that he paid for all of daycare, all medical expenses, all extras like swim lessons, tumbling at the Y, professional pictures, etc. He even bought BM a Lexus at one point, and was always paying for car-related expenses like new tires, etc.

The problem with this was--BM always expected more, more, more. And with nothing in writing, it put DH in the position of having to say no or deal with her wrath. And then she would always threaten DH with not seeing his son if he didn't comply with this or that. He wasn't "allowed" to me with his son. He wasn't "allowed" to take his son out of town. ETC. When a person grows used to things being a certain way, then they start to expect it to be that way and to feel entitled.

I am most bothered in your situation by the fact that it seems your BF is not being "allowed" to bond with his DD on his terms. Yes, she is still a baby, but there is no reason he cannot spend time with her at HIS house. He is not the "babysitter," he is the FATHER.

It just sounds like BM is controlling too much of this scenario and your BF is letting her. He needs to go to court, like Ima said, and get paternity established. Then he needs to have child support set and other expenses outlined. He also needs a visitation/custody schedule to be set by the courts so that he has regular time with his child.

Trust me, if he does not do these things now, this situation will not improve.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:02AM
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I couldn't agree with you more, my BF spends more time with my 1 year old nephew than his own daughter. I have even told him to tell BM that I won't be at his house when their daughter is there (and I really won't) just so he can have some time with her. I think though that deciding to go to court should be his decision, my concern is that BM will turn around and say that I am vindictive and trying to harm her child, whatever if I try and tell him this. He should really start taking control of this situation or all he'll be to his daughter is the guy that pays for stuff!

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:19AM
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" have even told him to tell BM that I won't be at his house when their daughter is there (and I really won't) just so he can have some time with her"

I would not say this to BM. It is fine, and even good if you give your BF ample time alone with his DD. But don't let this issue become a "condition" for BM to hold over your heads; all that does is allow her more control over your BF's life.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:32AM
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KKNY is right can't FORCE BF to set boundaries for Bm or FORCE BF to make her get a job. What you CAN do is tell him you will not marry a man who is financially supporting his EX and you could also mention no other woman will either. Then it's on BF to make the call.

If i were you I absolutely would no commit to a man who is still this involved with another woman. She is controlling him and that will with out a shadow of a doubt cause problems in any new relationship this man has. He can be a great father to his child with out still being husband to this woman which essentially is what he is.

Put the ball in BF's court. Don't hold back on your feelings becasuse this is YOUR relationship as much as his and you have a right to be heard. Once it's all on the line you will know where you stand and will be able to make the appropriate decision.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:32AM
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A court order is clearly the best way for your BF to protect his interests AND those of his baby. Without a court order, his DD and her relationship with her father is completely at the mercy of her mother, and her mother will be teaching the DD to throw hissy fits, pout, threaten, or whine to get what she wants.

It's one thing to get a court order that hides assets or minimizes child support -- one that basically 'screws' the mother. But it's quite another to agree to an order to provide a more generous level of support for the child and to ensure that the father's visitation rights are protected.

If BF were to visit a family law attorney, find out what the typical arrangements are for people in his position and hers, then offer something more generous for a period long enough for BM to complete her degree -- Well, that's hardly a terrible thing to do, is it?

And it will be the only way BM will accept limits.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:38AM
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Doodble -- no woman would marry a man who supports his X??? Plenty of men paying spousal support remarry. Every day of the week. My guess -- if dad is paying rent and full time nanny, he makes a fair amount of money. Which where I live is hefty child support and possibly spousal maintenance (formerly know as alimony). Oops, Ima excuse me for guessing -- but my guess is the guy makes a fair amount of money, which is what CS is based on.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:43AM
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According to you the DH will always aagree with th new GF or wife anyway so all your other statements none withstanding I would say the Ex is screwed anyway if OP throws down the gauntlet.

Spousal maintenance is BS and I bet there is no court order stating this man has to pay this womans rent. He is just like so many other ex husbands who do whatever the Ex tells him to untill he remarries and the new wife puts the kabosh on it.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:54AM
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"Without a court order, his DD and her relationship with her father is completely at the mercy of her mother, and her mother will be teaching the DD to throw hissy fits, pout, threaten, or whine to get what she wants"

There is no court order KKNY. I was right. BF is a dee dee dee Ex who is jumping through BM's hoops probably out of fear the woman won't let him see his child if he doesn't.

BF needs a court order. Sweeby is totally right. Too much control for BM without any limits or guidlines.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 10:58AM
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He can go to court, and they will likely order him to pay a set portion of his income as CS. He may be afraid of that.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 11:01AM
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Child support and paying for this woman's place to live are two separate issues.

I also get the impression that this man has a lot of money. But the monetary amount should be set and put in writing, and then everything else should be spelled out. There is no court in the world that will make a father pay for his ex-GIRLFRIEND's (not wife, where spousal support may apply, but girlfriend!)living expenses and 100% of childcare.

Now--child support, when set, might be enough to cover these things. But that would be the BM's call to make. She can take her child support and do what she wants with it--to support their child. But this man should not feel obligated to fully support this woman, especially without anything in writing. Like I said before, when a person gets used to things being a certain way, then they start to feel entitled. What happens if BM and baby outgrow their current home and BM decides that BF needs to pay for a larger place? What happens if BM decides she needs a new car and that BF has to pay for it?

If a monetary amount is set in stone, it makes things easier for everyone involved. BM will know exactly what she has coming in and what she can expect; DH will know what he is obligated to spend and he can plan accordingly.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 11:05AM
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Well better to pay child support for a child than support a grown woman. The fact that he is afraid of child support makes no sense considering it can't be as much as providing for BOTH. I think he is afraid of BM refusing visitation sense nothing is in ink. That makes tons more sense.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 11:07AM
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I totally agree, Doodle. I doubt he is afraid of having child support court ordered because it sounds like he has never been unwilling to provide for his child. The guy is shelling out for a nanny and his ex's apartment. Doesn't sound like the type of man who would shirk any financial obligations to his child to me.

Believe it or not, KK, it's not always about money. My DH was afraid for years of getting less time with his son. That is one of the main reasons he didn't go to court with BM for so long. Every time he would bring up the idea, BM would threaten him with EOW visitation. He was genuinely scared to lose time with his son. And, NO, not because of child support obligations.

My DH paid more over the course of the years with NO C/S ORDER than he would have had he just gotten C/S set. He paid over $800/month for daycare and preschool for 5 years, plus provided health insurance, and paid for extras. Off the top of my head, I bet he paid on average of $1000/month for 5-6 years.

His child support amount now, that 50-50 custody has been established, is $277/month. AND the parenting plan also states that BM has to pay for half of childcare, and 30% of medical expenses.

Like I said, it's not always about the money. Lots of men actually want TIME with their children.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 11:15AM
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Doodle, you should have said... no woman in her right mind would marry a man who is the sole support of his ex!

Sure, there are lots of guys that pay spousal support and it's a foolish woman that relies 100% on her ex's support... to be financial dependent on someone else is taking a risk that they won't lose their job, lose their assets, or die without providing for her. Then where would that leave her? Well, look at my DH's ex for example. She married at 24 & split from hubby #1 at 25... divorce is still not final but he's been paying support for 12 years. Some of it is temporary spousal support so if he decides to no longer pay it, he will likely get it stopped since it was a short marriage & she's been a student for at least 5 years.... plenty of time to get a degree (though she hasn't) and she's had 12 years to get a job, though she hasn't. She has relied on his money for 12 years.... she is now working just enough to keep DCSS from suspending her license for support she owes for SD. She works 20-25 hrs a week @ $8 an hour, not a living wage in my opinion. Well, she is 36... 37 in a few months and has NEVER held a real job! She has not finished her AA degree, though she's called herself a student for 12 years. Her older daughter is 13, almost 14... so she's got another 4 years in child support, which I would almost guarantee her husband will want to finalize the divorce and stop the spousal support too. What is she going to do? She's lived with her 70 year old mom until she moved in with her current BF who has said he has no intention of marrying her... well, besides the fact he can't marry her since she's married already, he is seeing her as a financial burden. He was after her to get a job for a while because his things were being repossessed but she wouldn't work until DCSS was going to take her license. So, in 4 years will this guy still be her BF? Her mom will be 74-75 on a fixed income & she will be 40 with no work history or education.

That's what can happen when you do nothing with yourself but rely on someone else to support you all your life. and even if your ex is wealthy and he does provide for you in his will or you have a legal agreement... who's to say he will be ABLE to fulfill the agreement or that there will be anything left to will? The stock market crashing, the housing market taking a dive, or maybe a few bad business decisions can ruin someone. It is shocking how little Michael Jackson had at the time of his death... you never know what will happen and to tie your financial future on what someone else does, well that is foolish.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 11:19AM
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"Doodle, you should have said... no woman in her right mind would marry a man who is the sole support of his ex!"

You are so right! It takes a moron to put her and her children's wellfare in the hand of another person. You have to be able to support yourself if it came down to it because alot can happen.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 12:46PM
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I don't have much respect for guys who leave pregnant women and start dating someone else right away. I would run and run fast.

His baby is 10 months old and you have been wiht this guy for 10 months. So this guy decided to enter dating market wiht a newborn baby? And you got involved wiht the guy who just had a baby? not a thoughtful and mature decision on both his or yours part.

he intentionally or unintentioanlly left a pregnant woman and possibly is trying to make it right by her and his daughter by providing nanny and place to live. I do not think it is up to OP to have any concern about it, not her business. It is not her business how he wants to help mother of his child. If they would be already married then maybe, but they haven't even been togther that long, how is it her problem? It is his money, right?

I am surprised there is no court order, especially if she denies him visitations. there must be a reason he doesn't do it. Maybe it is because he will be ordered to pay much more CS than what he pays her now. Or maybe he won't have an excuse anymore that she won't let him see his baby.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 4:47PM
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Ya I agree with FD here. Actually, all of this info would give me the willies.

Dad has enough money to pay for a nanny and her apartment and Mom is only 20 with a 1 year old? How old is your BF? And Mom got pregnant around 18 or 19 with a guy who can afford all this? And Mom sounds like she comes from a very humble background.

OTOH, OP it doesn't sound like you have kids or have any real knowledge of just how much care and energy it takes to take care of a little one. At 19/20 there is very little this girl is going to be able to do while going to school, not to mention no social life and take care of this child financially 50%. You don't just need money, you need a lot of support. Mom in your case does not sound like she has family support and is trying to go to school at the same time. I know you said it is correspondence, but lmao, it doesn't really matter. Do you know how much easier it would be if she could just leave the baby with the nanny and go to school? But at the same time, it is better for baby to have Mom home as much as possible. To me, it sounds like you are skewering this womanchild for not having very many options available to her at the moment.

And quite frankly, your boyfriend has no business trying to get you involved. To me that is the biggest red flag out of this whole mess. This is none of your business. Ask advice, sure. But to ask you to help him reign her in, um no. This guy got him into the mess, surely he can figure his way out. Men love to get the women involved, but this is just not your business period. You're not even married for goodness sakes!

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 5:29PM
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Good questions, Nivea.

    Bookmark   July 6, 2009 at 8:36PM
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