Pressure-treated wood?

eleenaMarch 6, 2012

Is it good or not when it comes to windows?

Jeld-Wen makes it a big selling point that all their wood windows are pressure-treated and won't rot.

A friend of mine just installed one, w/o any exterior cladding (aluminum, fiberglass, or vinyl) b/c she believed the dealer.

I talked to a Marvin dealer a few hours ago and they said that Marvin wood windows are NOT pressure-treated.

IDK what to think of it. Will they NOT rot faster than Jeld-Wen's then?

I could see that Marvin's aluminum cladding is extruded, unlike Jeld-Wen's which is rolled. Supposedly, extruded is better.

But if the wood is untreated, I am not sure that better cladding will help all that much.

And how on earth would a "mere mortal" know what to believe???

Could you explain which is better?

Thanks!

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HomeSealed

Pressure treated wood is only an advantage when the wood is not finished/sealed with paint or stain (like on a deck or fence). Its pretty unlikely that this would be the case for a window, so I'm going to call that more "gimmick" than legitimate benefit. The extruded aluminum however is a major advantage. Roll formed aluminum on the exterior will result in a window that rots sooner... The Marvin vs Jeldwen comparison is Mercedes vs Kia.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2012 at 11:14PM
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toddinmn

I do believe that all wood windows are typically treated now.Jeld-Wen just uses a different process which I have no idea which is better. I have seen quite a few marvins with rot though, but Marvins are a little more common in MN. That being said, I have not seen a Jeld-Wen product that I am extremely fond of yet.

    Bookmark   March 6, 2012 at 11:43PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

+1

This is merely branding and if I had to spend money with the expectation that it would last, your money would be better spent with Marvin.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2012 at 7:30AM
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millworkman

+2, In addition by "pressure treated" they do not mean it in the true sense of the word. Basically Jeldwen and most every window company today treats there wood with a version of the product known as Dap Woodlife a basic type wood preservative. This will help but not entirely stop the problem. The key is proer installation, ventilation and maintenance (paint and caulk). Extruded exterior aluminum is far better than roll form (think soda can). Jeldwen basically purchased 3 mediocre at best window companies (Pozzi, Norco, and Caradco) that were not in the best financial shape and renamed them the 3 Jeldwen lines. Nothing that I am aware of made them any better than the units that were produced by the previous owner so I will say they are still mediocre at best. i personally would look at Marvin (previously recommended)and Kolbe (very small step below Marvin).

    Bookmark   March 7, 2012 at 8:10AM
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eleena

You "guys" are the best!

Thanks!

I have just talked to Marvin. It turns out that their wood IS presssure-treated - whatever that means :-)

And the funny thing is that even the price seems better on Marvin (so far).

OK, so Gled-Wen is out but I am looking at vinyl windows as well. A Simonton dealer rep is coming tomorrow.

Thanks again!

    Bookmark   March 7, 2012 at 12:52PM
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brickeyee

At least some of the window makers have tried to use 'pressure treated' to reduce the problems of moisture intrusion past cladding put on the wood (metal or plastic).

The problem is that wood moves with changes in moisture content, and no finish can stop the changes in moisture content.
While metal cladding can stop movement through the metal covered portion (and thick vinyl almost stop it), any exposed wood (like on the interior side) will allow water vapor entry.
The wood then changes shape and size, and starts to work on breaking the seals between the cladding and wood.

Eventually cracks develop between the materials and water enters.
It cannot easily escape, so rot starts in the wood.

Treating the wood is intended to further slow the rot.

    Bookmark   March 7, 2012 at 4:00PM
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mmarse1

pressure treated wood!!!
good luck with the aluminum capping..lol

    Bookmark   March 11, 2012 at 1:53PM
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eleena

Thanks, everyone!

mmarse1,

What do you mean?

A Marvin guy came on Thursday and also said that there would be a problem installing fiberglass windows b/c of the existing frame. I still don't understand the problem and none of them was able to explain it to me, they were just "hand-waving". We are going to go to the showroom again and try to understand better. If that does not work, I'll post a new thread about it. :-)

    Bookmark   March 11, 2012 at 5:05PM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

True pressure treated wood (i.e. the stuff you think of on a deck and at Home Depot that is green) is reactive (the chromated copper arsenate) with aluminum.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2012 at 7:18PM
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millworkman

As I stated earlier most all companies use a variation of Dap Woodlife, a clear wood preservative.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2012 at 8:01PM
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brickeyee

"True pressure treated wood (i.e. the stuff you think of on a deck and at Home Depot that is green) is reactive (the chromated copper arsenate) with aluminum."

CCA was removed from routine store availability a few years ago.

The newer preservatives often use copper and even attack steel nails, aluminum would be even worse.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2012 at 11:10AM
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eleena

Ok, I understand the "pressure treated wood!!!
good luck with the aluminum capping..lol " part now.

And, does "The newer preservatives often use copper and even attack steel nails, aluminum would be even worse." mean that the new cladded windows are BS (forgive my French) or that they are NOT really pressure-treated?

    Bookmark   March 12, 2012 at 11:38AM
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millworkman

As I stated all manufacturers that I am aware of use a Clear Wood Preservative and the wood parts are dipped or at the most pressure treated to retention not true "Pressure Treated" which is done until the wood has become saturated to a given point. The chemical they all use for the wood on windows will not nor does not react with metals at all.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2012 at 11:58AM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

Thanks for the heads up brickeyee.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2012 at 6:14PM
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brickeyee

"Thanks for the heads up brickeyee."

You are very welcome.

CCA treated is till available, just not at the Big Box stores, and at a higher price (it still excels at certain things like docks and bulkheads).

The new treatments EAT steel nails and hardware.

Stainless hardware and nails are around, but of course at a higher cost.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2012 at 10:29AM
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PRO
Windows on Washington

So you would run Stainless only in the PT lumber that is out there now.

How about the clima-seal type screws with the plastic coatings on them? I would think that stainless is still the way to go because the plastic coatings melt up a bit when running through the wood.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2012 at 12:59PM
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millworkman

Exactly windows, Stainless is without a doubt the best and actually not much dollar wise more than the climaguard.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2012 at 2:00PM
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brickeyee

I simply do not trust any coating to remain intact through handling and installation.

I remember seeing galvanized nails with rusting heads from driving them.

Even thick galvanize (the thickness might have actually made it worse).

Long before stainless screws became required for the new PT chemicals, I was using them for all exposed work.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2012 at 3:13PM
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millworkman

Days in the past Sivaco (Canadian) Nail Co. made an excellent Hot Dipped nail, they were expensive but good. Everything else predominantly Asian or European Imports and even USA made Hot Dipped Galv or even Electroplated Galv nails were terrible and had the issue you speak of Brickeyee

    Bookmark   March 13, 2012 at 4:34PM
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