Opinions on bids Part2

rkb21March 12, 2013

Hi, everyone! I'm back. Thanks again to ALL of you for your help and input during this crazy, crazy journey into window replacements!

I think we've decided that we aren't going to do vinyl windows, mostly b/c of the aesthetics. I was really torn and I am still a little bit.

A few things I also found out: our current windows are Crestline, neighbors said that's what the builder used and the Andersen rep recognized them as such. Our patio doors are measured for 2x4 walls and ours are 2x6 so that's why we have the extra buildout to the trim and the blinds can sit inside the frame.

Anyway, moving forward with the wood window choices...

2 5ft sliding door/transom units [tear out]
1 9ft sliding door/transom unit [tear out]
5 DH units [inserts, 32x71]

Windows:Clad Ultimate, LoE 366 w/Argon, with grilles
Doors: Clad Sliding Patio Doors
$16,950, installed price

Andersen E series:
Same exact set up as above with SmartSun loE 366 w/Argon
Eseries French sliding doors/transom units [tear out]
E series DH inserts [Woodrights were about $90/per window more]
$15,000, installed price

We ruled out Kolbe b/c of price.

So, I was given a consensus by both companies that the sliding patio doors would need to be a tear out and transoms replaced. They THINK they could re-use the shutters and blinds on the patio doors but no guarantee.

A few questions:
1. Thoughts on E series vs 400 woodrights?
2. Marvins vs Andersens at these prices?
3. What can I do to ensure that the opening sizes of the patio doors remain the same to ensure that I can reuse the blinds and shutters?

I truly do appreciate all of your help. I hope that I haven't tired all of you out with all of my questions b/c now I'm near the finish line :)

Thanks and looking forward to hearing opinions from the experts!

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2k difference I would go with the Marvin. From here there is no way to guarantee reusing blinds and shutters f it would even be possible. The guys who have been to the site and measured would know best,

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 8:26PM
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Millworkman: I know that Marvin's are really top of the line but how does the ESeries and woodright series compare? I'm especially interested in hearing your thoughts on the Eseries since its also alum clad.


    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 9:29PM
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Windows on Washington Ltd

Can't really comment on the E-Series vs. Woodright but I think the 2K delta is very modest and I would also go with the Marvin based on my personal experience.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 9:03AM
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E series if I am not mistaken is what is also know as Eagle and I was never a fan before they were purchased by Andersen. Since Andersen purchased them I am uncertain what they may have done to improve then quality so it is tough for me to judge. I have heard good and bad but you get that from every manufacturer. On the downside in my opinion Andersen had spread them self a little thin with trying to be in every level of the window and door market place. Again this is my only my observation and opinion but I still think the best product they made were the originals or what is now the 400 series permashield units. Again my opinion take it for what it is worth and I have no dog in this hunt as I have not been in the residential window and door business in a few years.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 9:20AM
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millworkman and wow: thanks for the input!

I wasn't sure about the Eseries either. They said that b/c of sizing issues that they would recommend the Eseries sliding doors. That's why they priced out the windows in that series. Surprisingly, the woodrights were more expensive.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 10:21AM
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E series are Eagle, and the biggest advantage as I understand it is the low up-charge for custom sizes vs. standard.

I worked diligently with my Andersen dealer and on my own looking for standard size windows that would fit.

For my money, and for the aesthetics, I'd go with Woodwright DH, or also consider the A Series DH especially if you prefer the more traditional spoon-lock hardware.

The Woodwright is a much nicer looking window than the Eagle, and has wood trim covering the jamb. It has easy to use mechanisms for the tilt-out on the lower sash. Two little discrete clips live in the top of the jamb and slide down to press in the upper pins on the bottom sash allowing it to be tilted into the house. The upper sash has more typical surface mounted clips for you to access. Of course you can't see these when the sash is up.

The A Series uses the spoon-lock to release the tilting sash with an invisible integrated system.

The other difference is Woodwright is Fribrex exterior while the A Series is Fiberglass.

What Marvin window are you looking at? The Ultimate? I liked the Ultimate as well - just didn't have the finer details of the Andersen and our house is 100 years old.

Through negotiation I got our 17 A Series DH for less than the original quotes for E Series or Woodwright and less than a Marvin Integrity quote. All standard sizes.

We're doing a full tear out so fitting perfectly sized custom inserts wasn't an issue for us.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 11:43AM
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TorontoTim: Thanks for the nice explanation. The Andersen dealer said the Eseries was better for the full tear out sizes we needed on the sliding patio doors bc we're trying to re-use our blinds and shutters. I asked about lowering the price, but was told that the margin on wood windows is so low that they barely make money on them [not sure about that though].

The Marvin is the Ultimate series. I went to see them and liked them but honestly, I am not that picky about the overall look. Our home is only 20yrs old, with white interior and white exterior so we don't need anything too specific design wise.

For the price, it sounds like the Marvins are not too bad. I wish the Andersens came in much lower that would have helped my decision :)

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 12:24PM
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Andersen's price structure is pretty tight, they have it set up so really the only people who make money selling Andersen is Andersen(which sucks for dealers and why some refuse to sell the products).

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 12:31PM
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The E-Series is the Eagle window which is an Aluminum clad window like the Marvin ultimate Double Hung. Beiing that the quotes are so close, to me its a no brainer. I would absolutely go Marvin.

The Andersen Woodright is made of Fibrex which is basically a mixture of 60% Vinyl and 40% saw dust bonded together with resin. Its funny because what they are doing is using the leftover scraps that fall to the ground when cutting their 400 series window and instead of wasting the material they are using it to produce a different window that they sell for almost double the price!!!

The A-Series window has a fiberglass sash, Fibrex Frame & sill, and a wood venneer to the interior. Its actually a pretty nice looking window but quality wise does not compare to Marvin. I am shocked at how close the pricing is. Where i live Marvin is a good 30% higher than Eagle.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 2:34PM
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Window_mike: I was surprised by the price difference as well. Is there anything I should make sure the marvin quote is not missing? I feel like its too good to be true. I don't want to get nickel and dimed later.


    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 3:30PM
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I know how you feel. A couple of things to think about.

1. Does the quote include any exterior or interior casings. They can get pricey.

2. Make sure all quotes have comparable glazing.

3. What hardware finish are you using? Sometimes salespeople will quote standard when you really wanted Oil Rubbed bronze. Upgraded hardware especially on doors can add up very quickly.

4. Are there any grills? If so are they Interior snap on or are they SDL.

5. Are you getting the windows with any pre finishing.

6. Eagles Standard Clad finish is a 2604 & Marvin comes Standard is a 2605 which is the highest possible AMA rating. Eagle can make a 2605 finish for an upcharge. You might want to ask which finish os being used for your quote.

You probably checked most of this stuff anyway but just in case.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 4:18PM
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Also I noticed that you are calling the Marvin Door a patio door and the Eagle Door a French Patio Door. Is that a typo or are you not quoting the Marvin as a Frech Door? There is a big price difference between the two.

    Bookmark   March 13, 2013 at 4:38PM
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Window_mike: thanks for the great advice.
The Marvin's are the patio door not the French sliding door bc of the height requirements. The rep said otherwise it would be a custom size in the French door and would cost a lot more.

The Andersen rep said bc of custom sizing Eagle would be better and the French door style was only $100 more per door.

Both sets of windows come with the removable grilles.
Both are loE 366.
I need to check on casings and exterior clad finish.

    Bookmark   March 14, 2013 at 8:49AM
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So what happened?

    Bookmark   March 23, 2013 at 7:41AM
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Sorry for not posting a follow-up. We're down to Andersen and Marvin. I was waiting for the Marvin rep to come out with his installer to comment on a few things, ie mainly whether the shutters/blinds could be reused when replacing the sliding patio doors. They just came by this afternoon. He thinks they can. He went over the install process with me for both the patio doors and the insert windows. They are going to get back to me on a final bid b/c the sizing the rep initially took was slightly off so we're still in limbo.

I will definitely post a follow up :)
All of you have been super helpful!!!

    Bookmark   March 29, 2013 at 5:24PM
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