advice plese!

MrsProffit25May 31, 2011

OK so BM texted dh saying "you need to stick up for dd she says (sd friend) is always bullying her they shouldnt play together anymore" ok this is my neighbors daughter. They play (sd her friend and friends little sister) EVERYDAY! If we dont let her go play she cries. they are together everyday at school - car pool - home everything..sleepovers everything. Yes they fight THEY fight. SD is just as mean and its a normal thing i would think. tattle tailing the whole nine yards. they are 7 yrs old. SD called her friend stupid yesterday. Its back and forth but they 90% of the time play fine. they are so close they are like sisters. Also , i feel this is a way for sd to get bm attention - most of the time when they talk on the phone its "so and so was so mean to me at school he/she hit/kicked me" and of bm is awe poor baby this and that. and one time dh and i (we were in the car when sd was on the phone) were just in awe with this. So i called the teacher ALL LIES sd gets along great with the other kids her behavior as well of the others is fine. except the one instance with the boy showing hi pee pee but he was removed from her class. so how should we handle this? DH wrote bm back and said DD is just as mean and always asks to play with _ and her sister but thats ok i will keep them apart. Now mind you i live in a duplex so she is RIGHT there. in order for the other girls to get in thier back yard they have to gor throu ours.. (its a wierd set up) and SD window is right there! I mean here is what I think - we will keep them apart but SD will go crazy wanting to play with them within 2 days... but then im stumped. should i have sd call her mom and ask her mom to play with them since it was bm who said no playing... I dont think we should ignore BM request because then SD will continue just complaining to bm. I feel in a way SD needs to learn a lesson - crying wolf type thing maybe... im truley stumped. DH said he will have a long talk with her and i dont think thats a good idea either - SD has a right to complain to her mom about whatever she wants - but to take it to the level that BM is truley believing sd is so miserable playing with ___ is a little much. I just KNOW tomorrow after school sd will ask as soon as i pick her AND her friend up she will ask to play... Its not this big of a deal but i know its just the beginning of playing both sides. This has never happened before where BM feels enough about it to ask DH to keep them seperated AND i cant blame her she is not here to see they are fine and just bicker back and forth like kids do. I want to play this NO I WANT TO PLAY THIS type deal. anywho - how should this be handled?

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SD seems to have found a way to get BM's attention. I'm sure the point in telling BM '______ is mean' was to get sympathy from BM and maybe even to get BM to make _____ play what and when SD wants. Kinda like 'My Mommy says you must stop being mean and bullying me by making me play what YOU want'. Play the victim and BM pays attention, might even make other kid give SD her own way.

I doubt the idea behind ratting ______ out was to actually get herself banned from _______. I have grandkids that 'fight' and pout. They have to take turns. They either have to play together and take turns or they can choose to find something else to do by themsleves apart. Just like your SD could. If seven year old life is soooooo tough having to play with _______ Sd can always choose not to play with ______, to stay inside when _______ is out, blah blah.

The other thing concerns me is this sticking up for yourself thing. This is the BM that wants SD to hit a grown man. This is also the BM who has a mother who fights and threatens. Perhaps 'fighting' and attacking are lessons BM learned by example by the people who raised her. Maybe it's all BM really knows.

Standing up for yourself should not mean physically attacking or even running away. In childhood friendships sticking up for 'yourself' should be learning to share, take turns, settle differences without physical contact methods.

I think perhaps if Mrs. P and Mrs/Miss ______ sit down and talk to these girls, explain rules and guidelines for playing together and what it means to be a friend and have a friend might be a solution to the girls problems with each other. It's simple...any fighting, beating on each other, being selfish blah blah out of them this summer and you mommies will have no choice be to forbid them from playing together. That they need to think what that will mean. What it will be like to look out the window at _____ while she's playing or for ______to look out and see SD and the others eating icecream cones but _____can't join in.

Give the girls a chance to work it out, but let both girls know Mrs. P and Mrs/Miss_______ will put an end to their interaction if it is going to be nothing but fights and hurt feelings. Mrs P and Mrs/Miss_____ have other kids and things to do this summer than have two seven year olds catfight. It's the girls choice, get their act together or cease allowence of playing together.

Hitting/kicking are absolute no-nos. Whether it be at school, in the house or out in the yard. True bullying of course would be off limits too...but it sounds like these little girls are BFF and learning to interact with others and share and take turns blah blah are just a part of childhood and building relationships.

In talking to the girls and giving them a chance to know the constant fighting or pushing/shoving whatever is unacceptable blah blah I think you/Dad will be taking BM's concerns seriously and trying to address the problem

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 7:12PM
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I hear you.. But their frienship is not even like that - they play fine. Whenever they do start to catfight we knows its nap time or play inside your room time. SD must have really been overly dramatic and exagerated ALOT. I would never let my sd or dd play with children that were down right mean or they didnt get along. And the kicking and hitting were just lies. Yes we both(dh and i) also agree it is just for attention from BM and yes this is the BM who told sd to hit her b/f... ironic huh... dh and i talked about it before sd came home and decided when she got home everything was going to be normal - we wouldnt mention anything. SD knows BM spoke to dh about it and that was enough. The only thing that would change is when she would ask to play we would say nope , she is to mean to play with. I give it two days before she breaks. I know if we just have a "talk" with the girls sd will go to bm and go on and on about how we let her play and try to get us in 'trouble" i know this is what she is doing. she came home thinking bm was in trouble with us, she came in asked dh if he was mad about what happened and he said no. and then she went all dramatic about how the pants from BM were waaaayyyyy to big. she could have been in a movie playing that scene for 20 million people lol. we were just like its ok you will grow into them. she was dumb struck and just walked off.. We know what she is up to... I think when she does crack and decide her friend is really not mean and wants to play so so so bad she can call her mom and ask her mom. Thats the only thing i can think to nip this in the butt before this game gets out of control...

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 8:30PM
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She doesn't need to call her mom and ask her mom if she can do something while at dad's. Dad is the custodial, dad is an adult, dad is the parent -- be the PARENT and don't let BM make decisions while in your home.
You ask for way too many problems by allowing BM too much 'decision making' while sd is in your home. Yes you can respect BMs concerns but 'asking' her for permission to play with someone while at your home is just ridiculous.
Since it's been brought to your attention that sd is complaining about her friend, sit the girls down and teach them how respectful and mature people work out their issues with each Other. Let SD tell her friend what hurts her feelings and how it makes her feel when friend does ____.
Then the girls can work it out. Friend knows that sd's feelings are getting hurt. Sd can find out how friend is feeling and then they can go on their merry way... Giving BM the decision making while sd is in your care, is beyond even words I can come up with. You don't tell BM who to let sd play with, she shouldn't be telling you either.

My dd had a friend and they have been very close for 8 yrs. Her mom and I are Friends and the girls have grown up together. They get into tiffs and complain about each other and they just had to learn how to communicate to each other how they feel and what it is that is bothering them. Kids need to learn to problem solve especially at 7 years old. And the best way is to sit them down and teach them.
SD likely doesn't know how to problem solve because she doesn't see that role modeling going on with her BM and DH, she sees fighting and a judge fixing their problems for them.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 8:48PM
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Quote: "she (BM) is not here to see they are fine and just bicker back and forth like kids do."

Exactly, BM is not there.

So that makes it really simple. YOU are there, YOU are the carer, YOU make the decision on these sorts of issues about what happens when SD is with you.

If you let BM tell you what to do and when to do it, you're going to have some interesting times ahead of you.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 10:34PM
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ok so , then just sit them down and have them share what they dont like what the other is doing.. got it.. i can do that.. but that wont stop sd from saying exagerated lies to bm.. ignore it? then what will it be next time? what lie will be told or exagerated next? we should not keep sd from friend for any amount of time to teach her a lesson?

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 11:25PM
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Nope. Not your lesson to teach. She isn't lying to YOU. BM needs to figure out how to parent at her house. What comes next is that SD sees that she isn't getting whatever she is wanting at your house by lying to BM. She wants mom and dad to talk and so she is getting BM to call daddy because sd is 'so sad'
Sounds to me like she's come up with a way for Dh and Bm to engage whether it's by text or phone, fighting or not .. They are talking about this big issue that sd has and again she's center of attention.

I would just simply ask sd if her friend is being mean to her. Here is a real life example. Teacher emails me that dd10 asked to see the counselor because a boy was being mean to her in class and making fun of her hair. Teacher says 'boys will be boys, I think he 'likes' her but counselor and I both have discussed with him this is inappropriate and it makes dd feel bad so apologize and don't do it again. Dd is fine and has had a good afternoon so I just wanted to tell you what happened'. Dd came home and said nothing about the boy or the counselor visit and seemed fine. So at bedtime I said 'is something bothering you? I heard from teacher that so and so picked on you today and that was upsetting to you. Are you ok?' dd said 'ya I hate when he laughs at my hair and he pulls it when he is behind me in line, when I tell him to stop, he calls me a baby and makes a crying sound and it embarrasses me.'. I said ' oh I'm sorry that isn't nice of him to do and I know that must make you very angry and embarrassed'. See -- I repeated her feelings that she had just expressed and I told her that I understood by repeating what she had just said. Also tells her I am listening. So I asked her what she was going to do next time that happened and she said 'I'll just move to the back of the line to get away from him and tell him, I don't like when you pull my hair, it hurts'. I praised her for coming up with a solution and gave her hugs and kisses and told her I thought she was the best thing since sweet tea and she went right to sleep. A few weeks later, dd came home from school, same boy pulled her hair in line. She said she was so proud of herself because she didn't get angry and she didn't feel embarrassed when she said 'please don't pull my hair, it hurts my head when you do that' and she walked to the back of the line. The boy went up to her later and said I'm sorry for doing that, I won't do it again. And he never did. Not to say that sd's little friend won't be mean or won't get into a power struggle again but if you empower sd to stand up for herself using her words and feelings, her relationships will blossom. You can't control how BM teaches her to deal with things so don't even try. Just let BM parent however she parents and when she texts you again with something that sd has complained about, just ask sd if she is OK and what is going on... You don't have to ignore it but when you let sd know that you are concerned about what is going on with her and you are listening to HER she will figure it out on her own.
Sounds to me like she is just trying to get a convo going between Dh and BM and to either get them fighting which she is used to or she has hopes that they'll work together.

I wouldn't give in to BM either. When she texts Dh about these issues, say thanks for letting us know we'll talk to sd and figure out what is going on. You aren't dismissing BM (I discourage dismissing her concerns) but you also aren't running in and accusing sd of telling her something she may not have even said. She may have said something of the nature but BM took it a complete different way. For example: my ex jumping to conclusions last week and yelling/screaming at me via email about a matter he only heard from dd and it was only 1/2 correct. He didn't bother asking me what the situation was or if it even happened, he just jumped my a$$ immediately because dd said.

    Bookmark   May 31, 2011 at 11:50PM
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I agree with the others, and myfampg's advice is excellent. Don't just dismiss BM's concerns out of hand - but you don't have to agree either.

Are you sure that SD was really saying all of these things to BM - or is it possible that SD said something to BM and then BM took that ball and just ran with it? I'd be very hesitant before "punishing" SD in your home for something that you did not witness, if the "witness" is not the most reliable person.

I know that you are concerned that SD will just continue to exaggerate or just lie to BM. Unfortunately I'm not sure how you are going to stop that. You can only control what happens in your house, just as BM should only be able to control what happens when she is (supposed to be) parenting.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2011 at 9:09AM
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"I know that you are concerned that SD will just continue to exaggerate or just lie to BM. Unfortunately I'm not sure how you are going to stop that. You can only control what happens in your house, just as BM should only be able to control what happens when she is (supposed to be) parenting."

Agree completely. SD will continue to exaggerate as long as it gets her mom's attention. If you play into it you will only continue to add more fuel to the fire. Take control - Your house, Your judgement call.

It sounds like SD's best friend lives next door to you, correct? This is probably threatening to BM because she thinks it gives your house an advantage that she would love to eliminate. Her insecurity is not your problem and it shouldn't be SD's problem either.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2011 at 11:02AM
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So... Today i picked up the girls and sd was so mean and rude to her friend. She is doing her homework now but my neighbor let me know that yesterday while the girls were eating breakfest at school sd kicked her friend so her friend kicked her back and sd yelled DONT KICK ME ___ so __ got in trouble... This morning i had told sd that she is no longer allowed to sit with this boy (in 3rd grade) any more at breakfast because he says bad words which sd told me about and dh and i had a discussion about it and decided to try and put an end to that friendship. he is 3 years older and its just not needed. I told sd this morning that she cant sit with him anymore and if i or dh find out that we will show up and eat breakfest with her... that was this morning - i just went in her room once i found out about the kicking. I asked her and she just got that look.. ya know that oh sh*t look... she said first - someone pushed into me and i accidently kicked her.,. then it was i dont remember then no i didnt kick her, so i said ok so if i go get __ and she tells me you kicked her first she is lying.. no answer... so i finally decided to put an end to her eating breakfest at school. I told her from now on she can just eat cereal home and then go to class.. Her attitude seemed to be going so much better untill about a week ago.. Talking back , being mean my dd and lying... i just dont know what to do. I also told sd i contacted her teacher to see if kids were really hitting her and kicking her and that it wasnt true.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2011 at 2:30PM
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My dd went through a mean stage at 7. She actually had one of those friends that always said, if you don't do this, I won't be your friend anymore. We didn't stop them from being friends because honestly you can stop them at school unless you tell the teacher to keep them separated. But we just had to teach dd that wasn't how we treated our friends and she figured it out. It sounds like some of the things you deal with are normal, kids test their boundaries and especially test their friendships until they learn what works and what doesn't. The lying and exaggerating to BM is 'normal' for the situation that sd is in. She has a lot going on around her and maybe 'grounding' her from outdoor play (not from the friend) but from playing in general for her behavior will teach her a lesson.

My dd is still mean to DS on occasion and we just have to remove her from the room, like sending her to her room. That always straightens her up.

    Bookmark   June 1, 2011 at 7:58PM
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--"Talking back , being mean my dd and lying... i just dont know what to do. I also told sd i contacted her teacher to see if kids were really hitting her and kicking her and that it wasnt true."--

Maybe, maybe not, but this new 'tude' might be a direct result of BM encouraging SD to 'stick up for herself'. BM is creating a little monster...partly maybe because SD does not understand the 'lesson' and partly because BM is not correctly teaching the child a lesson in a productive beneficial manner. BF annoys her, BM tells SD to hit him. If BM giving SD the suggestion that it's ok to hit/kick everyone that annoys her? Afterall that's what BM calls 'sticking up for herself' or defending herself.

You've got your hands full. Kid is going to be getting mixed messages from two different homes. I think the best you can try right now is the sit down discussion. Kicking kids at school is not 'sticking up' for herself, it's a sure ticket to the principal's office. And the behavior is being carried over at home with SD's siblings and neighbor girl. SD is learning just to mouth off and/or physically strike out at anything and everything that annoys her, does not give her her own way, or does not suit her.

The sudden change in behavior and thoughts that she can just bully and manipulate people and situations could be a direct result of her new extended time with BM and the encouragement of such behavior BM is 'teaching' her. Might be something that can be addressed at the hearing to see how the trial basis is going. BM could use some classes in parenting. What and how she is currently teaching and the method she is teaching it is affecting this child's daily life and her relationships with others.

I feel bad for this child because she really is getting mixed messages from all around that she is just not old enough to understand. On top of that she is having more contact with the BM who is showing total lack of parenting skills and the child is on top of that sucking up every last bit of it as she's finally getting her BM's attention.

I'd be tempted after the talk with her (talk she come from Dad and you as a united front) Little Miss Drama Queen Bully can sit herself in her room and think about the discussion and perhaps even skip playing this weekend if you don't see a marked improvement.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 8:30AM
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SD only sees this boy at breakfast so keeping her home from breakfast keeps her away from him. IDK if he is a "bad" kid or not but just the fact he is older and says bad words is enough to put dh and i on edge. well see I dont let sd play outside alone and the only kids she has to play with is ___ and her sister so she is stuck inside with my dd (2) which seemed fine with her yesterday but either way it was raining lol so she would have been inside no matter what.i think she will be inside untill it clicks in her head that she misses her friend and shouldnt have said what she said about not wanting to be her friend. then when that clicks - we will all sit down and talk about the behavior and how they treat friends.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 8:30AM
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absolutly - i already told her i didnt like her attitude or they way she has been acting the past few days.. and i point it out when i can to show she doesnt get what she wants with this attitude. yesterday i let dd step outside in the rain and play for like 5 min - she was having a ball. sd said awe i want to play in the rain - well maybe if you didnt have such an attitude and talk back about everything i would let you. today she stayed very quiet while eating her breakfast - there is only a week or so left of school anyways so its not that big of a deal to keep her home but i know it means more to her that - free time before school to hang out and chit chat but if she cant behave at breakfast then there is no breakfast... I just wish i knew the right answer but i have a feeling as the years go on it will only get much worse and i will look back at this as nothing

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 9:14AM
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recieved an email from sd teacher - i asked about other kids being mean to her like she tells bm here is the email

Good Morning,

I actually had to speak with __ on Tuesday about her being bossy and unkind to her classmates. She keeps giving dirty looks on the carpet (to me included, when I had to ask her to stop talking and pay attention). I talked with Coach and she also informed me that __ is being bossy at P.E.. The only time she mentioned someone being mean to her was this week, it was on the carpet in front of me and she was not an innocent party. I spoke with both students. I will keep an extra eye out for her and ask her at the end of the day if she had any problems.

I have truly enjoyed working with __ this year and appreciated how involved you have been in her education!

i emailed her back asking if this has been an ongoing problem or if it is a recent issue.. the tue she was talking about was this past tue when bm had sd sat sun mon and that afternoon after school... i just dont know what to think...

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 12:09PM
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Use it in court to show changes in ss's behavior change since extended visitation has started.

When do you go back to court?

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 3:11PM
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tomorrow is court... extremely nervous... DH will NOT agree for more time with BM... It will most likely be mediation like last time.. sd admitted to lying once i read her the email and she flat out said she was just doing what BM told her to do. if only bm was here now... i would deff stick up for myself and sd in bm's way.... so heated... i took her toys our of her room and had a long talk with her - i also told her she is not in trouble for talk to bm she is in trouble for lying to bm which bm brought to daddys attention and we asked teacher and found out it was a lie.. YOU are the one in fact being mean and doing the bullying...

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 3:59PM
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Good luck tomorrow. Do NOT agree to more time. If it's mediation then you do not have to agree tell them you want to see the judge.

And I meant sd earlier but I guess I typed ss

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 7:25PM
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The only things he is willing to agree on is when school is out then tue she can pick her up at home at 10... drop her off at 7... not overnight... then everyother holiday with christmas being split half and half..

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 9:47PM
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I think those are good ideas for now. I really don't think your sd should be spending more nights with her for now. She's got some serious moral issues she needs to deal with before parenting more.

    Bookmark   June 2, 2011 at 10:15PM
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