Just dumbfounded...

pseudo_momMay 8, 2011

So yesterday hubby decides to give SD her tv back while I was at work ... didn't care she's been decent to him.

I went to work this morning ... got home at 4ish to the boys telling me she ate all the chips ... (I bought one of those 12 packs little bags of chips) this after being told only 1 bag each ... well ss13 had one bag ... and she ate 11...granted they are little whatever not the point of my story... was I cranky sure but I was more weirded out by her actions ...

She ate all 11 ... apparently started crying about it saying pseudo's gonna be mad ...then called her mother, her father, and grandmother to tell them what she had done

and how bad she felt for doing it and how she shouldn't be punished for it. Because afterall she "felt bad doing it knowing I would get mad but she couldn't stop herself"

I took away tv again ... again embarrassed for her parents she does these things...

So my question would be this is where I am dumbfounded ... she did it knew it was wrong still did then called mom dad and grandma to tell them what she had done... WHY??????

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Sounds to me like it's manipulative. As if she's trying to prove a point TO YOU that she can still get away with this behavior, HAHA behind your back!

Eats all the bags (a bit over the top) and then cries to other adults in her life about it, pretending to feel remorse? Yeah right! This girl didn't even hesitate to call police to try and get you in trouble, she doesn't feel remorse if you ask me! This really looks like a simple: "Look pseudo, I've still got one over you!"

How impossible to deal with. What has your DH said about it?

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 6:24AM
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-- "WHY??????"--

To 'save' her buns. She's a clever little fool...she obviously is silly enough to think she's going to pull this off and the others (except you) will buy the 'show' hook line and sinker. Clever for thinking of it, foolish to think you'll buy one word/action of it. The others are falling for it, right? If not actually believing her BS they are coming to her rescue and excusing her deliberate defiance.

Why would she not think this...Dad gave her the tv back afterall.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 7:03AM
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makes me wonder what's with this food obsession, 11 bags of chips? is she overweight?

I think she tells others before she gets in trouble to soften a blow. I have a colleague whose daughter gets in major troubles at school, like fights, calling teachers names, you name it...When that happens she calls her mother before school can reach her, and says how she could not help it or how it is somebody's fault, so by the time school reaches the mother, the mother is coming to the rescue rather than actually placing blame where it belongs: with her troublesome DD. Her DD is on her 3rd school already because supposedly poor girl cannot help herself and mean teachers don't understand.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 9:52AM
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When I got home ... the boys couldn't tell me fast enough ... dad was in the yard ... why I ask she says she was hungry ... and daddy wouldn't make her lunch ... really you're 12 not 2 you knew what you were doing was wrong and did it anyway ... sadly its what I expected you to do not all of them though.

So this incident put me over the edge ...told hubby I wasn't paying for food anymore ... and if I do buy its getting locked up ... heading to the hardware store today.

No she isn't an overweight kid ... eventually it will catch up with her ... she doesn't eat dinner because she snacks so at dinner time she's "not hungry"

Running her mouth gonna tell Gma on me how I am mean to her ...etc... gma understands her ....

mom and dad don't know what to do with her anymore .... dad told her he was disgusted by her behavior and saddens him to think she would deliberately try to upset him and I and her mom.

I am done buying snacks ... sadly others will suffer for her gluttony.

Dad told mom she needs to see a therapist again ... mom said it just makes it worse dad said how much worse will it get before we do something.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 11:02AM
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I think she is looking for someone do care enough to DO SOMETHING. She does whatever & everyone appeases her. Mom makes excuses & lets her run rampant. Dad throws his hands up or lacks spine or just has no clue how to deal with it. You are beyond frustrated & gave up... and maybe she wants someone to set boundaries & show her they care.

It IS manipulation. She has learned to do this. It's her habit & comfort zone. She does outrageous things, gets some reaction... negative attention, but for the moment, she is the center of attention. But, she isn't getting what she WANTS... someone to care enough to set boundaries & stick to them. And if it's gone on this way for years, it may be very difficult to change that pattern. The parents are going to have to change how they deal with her & that means they will have to work together. That sounds like the biggest problem.. the parents have different ideas on what to do. Until they can agree and make a plan together & give SD some positive attention, the problems will continue to get worse.

Oh yeah, my SD did the running to gma to tell her how mean I am to her. So, last November when she had gotten 3 F's in school & had to do a computer program over Thanksgiving break, I told DH she can't use MY computer... let her use gma's computer & let gma keep her the week she is out of school. It's not my problem if she is failing, it's not my problem if gma needs her computer... if she wants SD to get it done, she will help her, I don't care if she gets it done. By the end of the week, gma was frustrated & wanted her computer back. SD had started a new semester & at Christmas, gma commented on how SD learned her lesson & isn't going to get any more F's. I had to tell her that as she said that, SD has two F's and a D-... but of course it was early in the new semester. Gma started to tell me about how long it takes to do one of those "tutorials" & I told her that SD had 12 weeks to do the work in class and as homework but doesn't want to do the work when it's due so she sits in her room staring at the wall, lies to us that it's done and takes the F... so gma was left with nothing to say. BTW, SD finished the second semester with two F's but still hasn't done the "tutorials" so she can pass to the next grade. IMO, she can do them at her mom's since she burned out me & burned out gma. Of course, mom doesn't care if she passes or not. (and DH is the one she lies to most about it & he is frustrated, agrees she may have to learn the hard way)

It's too bad the parents can't see what they are doing to their kids, even when it's slapping them in the face on a daily basis.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 7:45PM
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I can't make them parent their children .... I can't/won't parent her. Dad refuses to bring her to cheerleading anymore ... mom won't bring her either.

He won't even discuss it with me ... makes him sick to even think about it he says ... and I can see that its making me sick too my stomach has been in a knot since yesterday ...

I did say that I think she needs to stay one extra day with her mom since its her mom's attention she is craving ... he said thats what she wants then give it to her ... if it will stop her from doing what she is doing. Give us all a break...but mom won't agree to it either she doesn't want her around more than she has to either.

Feel like taking everything from her room and giving her a mattress on the floor and a pillow ... let her earn her stuff back ...

Its over 24 hours later and I am still angry because nothing will be done about it unless I do something and its not my place to do it. No win situation.

I wish mom would take her and get a real diagnosis ... something I could say oh its because of __________________.

But I don't see it other than a 12 yr old getting away with everything both parents afraid to tell her no. Too busy trying to be her friend instead of parent her ...

Maybe my definition of parenting is too extreme for him ...rethinking my life at this point. Hubby can't do enough for me the last 24 hours making up for it ... dreading tomorrow already ...

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 8:49PM
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MANIPULATION. She is setting you up big time.Sounds like a sociopath to me.

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 8:57PM
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Maybe she can't be parented ... at ripe old age of 12 ...

I have thought there is something just not right with her for a very long time .... and its not Anxiety!

    Bookmark   May 8, 2011 at 11:01PM
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Pseudo. Taking away things seems so much for a younger child but OMG it works!!! If DH supports you and he won't be giving it back, i would do it!!

Different age and different situation but when dd was 4 we had a real problem with her behavior. At 4!! I love Dr Phil.. He said to take away everything in the room and start over. Giving back 1 at a time. Children become so 'spoiled' w all of their 'things' that it actually can cause behavior problems and it's the best way to get down to the bottom of the issue. As dd became better and she started earning her things back... Her behavior got better and we've never had those issues again. I truely believe it works.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2011 at 1:06AM
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The kid sounds like a real piece of work.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2011 at 9:08AM
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Something has to be done or she will turn out like my 1/2 sister that I posted about recently. Her whole life my dad was scared to parent her (her mom died when she was young). He let her wear the pants in the house and do whatever she wanted. She manipulated him, her therapist, and others. She talked how she wanted, treated people the way she wanted, got in trouble at school, etc. Through it all there were no consequences. My dad was engaged to a woman who finally broke it off because she could not handle my sister!! My dad would do nothing to discipline my sister and this lady got tired of being the bad guy when she would try. I tried to tell my dad what he was doing was wrong, but he just got defensive and angry.

Now he is seeing some of the error of his ways, but she is over 18 and out of the house. There is nothing he can do to change her.

If your sd's parents do not step up and be parents and get this girl under control her whole life is going to be miserable and cause nothing but problems for you, your husband, and her mother.

The scariest thing is that eventually this unruly child may reproduce and be in charge of another human life! My sister did and she is ruining the life of her child right now.

    Bookmark   May 9, 2011 at 2:27PM
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"rethinking my life at this point"

You and IMA are my heros! You have put up with so much craziness, first with the one SS and now with SD (which was caused by the BM). I'm sorry you've had such a hard time.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 1:24AM
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OMG! This is so crazy! And I didn't think your SD could get crazier! I tend to agree with wonderinginchicago who said she is a sociopath.

Or maybe she isn't. Maybe she is suffering from the lack of boundaries and consistency from her parents? Maybe, just maybe, instead of giving up or giving in, they need to get tougher.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 10:09AM
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If I thought for a hot minute ... that SD would change her ways and become someone people like if I left hubby ... I would do it in a heartbeat and give this family some peace of mind.

Hubby and I talked and talked ... and said he would ask mom to keep her more time but didn't think that would happen either because she doesn't want to be around her either ... she's apparently nasty to mom and mom's BF too... but no one will do anything about to help her.

We discussed me leaving while she was here ... VS leaving completely and came to the conclusion that she is who she is and me leaving with not change her for the better.

Her newest comment .... "when you die a burden will be lifted from my shoulders" ... really ??? thats sad

I did say to her I just realized at this very moment that your words are not going to hurt me anymore they are just a reflection of the type of person you are...and atleast people like me!!! Can you say the same???

My mom and dad like me she says ... dad says no I love you but I don't like who you have become can't speak for your mom but I know she doesn't like how you treat people.

I then left for work ...she gave her dad and brothers grief all night... dad took all electronics away and told her each time she will have more and more taken away til she eventually comes back to a rug on the floor and start from scratch in her room ... a little progess :)

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 10:40AM
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That's really horrible of her to say to you. basically wishing you were dead? I think this girl really needs counseling.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:32AM
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Very manipulative. She did it because she wanted to show you she could.

Why does she call everyone? She's seeking out "rescuers". She wants everyone to see HER as the victim, because that's the role she wants to play as it provides her with sympathy, and further enables her behavior.

I have had LONG time neighbor problems with someone who acts similar to this, though she is an adult. At first, it baffled me, but the more she did it, the more I was convinced it was a clinical disorder.

She HAS to win. She HAS to have her way. You are living by HER rules, she is not living by yours. She likes to humiliate you, and watch you suffer in your frustration. She enjoys it, and probably even craves the attention.

12, 35 or whatever age, it's the behavior, not the age.

Stand by your rules, and never, ever waver. Let her know there will be repercussions, and enforce them accordingly. Don't get upset, that gives her satisfaction. The more you ignore her theatrics, the more frustrated she becomes. The more you feed into it, she wins. She will push it as far as she can take it. She does not think like you and I - she doesn't think of the repurcussions of her behavior, she is incapable. She acts in the here and now, because she's acting on her emotions to fill a void. She lacks her own ideals and in a sense, her own identity.

We finally had to get the local government involved in our situation, and they threatened our neighbor with sanctions. That is the ONLY thing that has deterred her, and even then, she pushes the envolope. It's without a doubt, a personality disorder.

We believe our neighbor suffers from Emotionally Unstable Personality Disorder and/or Sadistic Personality Disorder - many characteristics overlap.

Why do I say she's sadistic? Because she attempts to "recruit" others into believing she is the victim, believing that it wasn't her fault, etc., she has run door to door, literally, to neighbors, various members of local govt. from police to multiple members of city hall, etc. trying to recruit others into believing she is the victim, when we did nothing AT ALL. The slightest and most trivial disagreement triggers hatred and contempt in this personality disorder.

The police will tell her to cease her behavior. Within 24 hours she's back at it again. She doesn't want to be "told" by anyone that she can't do it, or that she's wrong, and she will push the envelope as far as it can go, and if the police don't side with her she will escalate it up the ladder.

I say this to you because it sounds like she's in the beginning stages of the behavior my neighbor has exhibited.

She has lied to no end about us, making up stories in attempts to defile our reputation - so others believe HER and put her in a good light.

Do some research on the following -

Emotionally unstable personality disorder
Sadistic personality disorder & abuse by proxy
Borderline personality disorder
Narcissistic personality disorder

Don't just read the definitions, but dig a little deeper and I think you will find the answer.

Many of these characteristics of personality disorders overlap, and it is not uncommon for a person to be diagnosed with multiple disorders.

I don't mean to sound insensitive to the fact that this is a 12 year old, but I can relate to the behaviors in terms of my neighbor adult, and she's running on three cylinders.

And it sounds like the mom is the enabler, or at least turns a blind eye

Maybe it's semantics, you don't have to parent her, but you HAVE to establish boundaries. She'll never learn otherwise. It's really sad that her parents seemed to have given up...if they can't or aren't willing to help, then they SHOULD let someone else step in, a professional, to do the job.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:43AM
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Dominoswrath: you just described in detail the behavior of my daughter's SM. How do you deal with someone like that? It's like hitting a brick wall. And I can't contact police and the courts are 'trying' to help. We've been to therapy and honestly sometimes I think they believe her because I refrain from pointing fingers or telling every single detail, where she is really good at recounting ever detail in an interesting way, and people listen. Defending myself makes me look guilty. If she doesn't get what she wants she redirects and goes to Someone else. I give up because I just don't want to fight and by the time it's been beaten with a hammer, the point of disagreement has vanished from my mind because we've gone in a tailspin listening to her rants about whatever else. One thing she does that drives me insane is that she will cower and physically hide behind exDH and make everyone think she is in fear for her life. When she was the one who viciously attacked me -- but tells everyone (police/courts) that she has never been in a fight and that she is so small, I have 40 lbs on her so no way could she have done that. Pleas Mr Officer you have to believe me.. They never believed her but watching it everytime frustrated me to no end. I don't battle with them over anything because I just don't have the strength to go up against her. My exdh and I don't fight because we don't speak, she won't allow us.. So everything is her and like I said, she doesn't stop until she has won ... So how do you deal with a person like that?

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 11:59AM
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Myfampg: you have NO idea the hell this has caused in our lives, or, maybe you do. :) It is truly a strain trying to cope with these people (her husband is an enabler), it's an ongoing struggle. We;ve even gone the legal route, hired countless attorneys until finally we found the right one who was able to stop the nonsense, but it has been a long road. She's a complete nut. The funny thing is, when we first met her, I always said to my husband that I sensed something wasn't right about her - call it intuition, but I noticed something and I told my husband I don't trust her. We carried on an amicable relationship, but kept our distance, and 1 1/2 years later, it all went to sh**, overnight, over a trivial disagreement, you'd laugh if I told you. If there's anyone I met in my life that I can truly say suffers from a clinical disorder - and we've all heard about them but never actually experienced them - it's her. People just do not understand until they actually live it. You can explain to them the situation, but they don't "get" it. So many people want to chalk it up to a "cat" fight between women, but that's not it at all. When someone consistently harasses you for years, just for the sake of harassing you, it's not just bad blood. It's dealing with a narcissistic personality disorder and who knows what other disorders are ailing her (them). If it doesn't seem like "normal" behavior, trust your instincts.

It takes an emotional toll. For purposes of my own sanity, I started doing the research myself until I was able to piece together the characteristics and match them up to whatever disorder described her behavior, just so I could comprehend it. As I stated earlier, they overlap, but I also read that's common for those with a disorder to have several disorders at the same time. And you can meet people, they can seem perfectly normal for years, until something "triggers" them (for all intents and purposes, she was "normal" for awhile, but I still didn't trust her). And by "trigger" I am referring to the slightest most trivial disagreement that escalates to incomprehensible levels of retaliation by any normal standard. She is on a neverending quest for revenge, and it doesn't stop.

It was little things she'd do that might sound trivial to an outsider, but when you live it for years on end, it takes on a different context - like copying everything that we do. And I mean EVERYTHING. Something as simple as telling her what kind of vehicle we liked - she'd turn around and buy that vehicle. Not like when you have friends and you get ideas from them, but like she was trying to take on our identity, without shame. Within days of doing something, literally, she'd copy it. It was like clockwork. I told her one time I wanted a climbing red rose bush. I didn't even pick it up yet. Within three days, I looked over and she had a climbing red rose bush. It's WEIRD. So, it started with weird behavior like that, to the point that she started to get openly frustrated and hostile if she couldn't "keep up". It was like everything was a competition with her, "if you can do it, I can do it better" type behavior - which I've also read is a common characteristic of the personality disorders I've listed above. I've had other neighbors contact me because they noticed she was mirroring what we do. She has no identity, so she has to emulate ours. I swear, she has no ideas of her own, it's sad. The mirroring behavior escalated to following us, and constantly letting us know that "she's there" - for example, making the same noises everytime we're outside, as if she's trying to "condition" us. It's as if she's obsessed with trying to manipulate us.

Yes, and she's VERY manipulative and convincing, telling stories how she's the victim, omitting pertinent facts that obviously would sway one's opinion in their favor, etc.

You should start telling details, or at least documenting them. It's frustrating and you don't want to stoop to her behavior, but once everyone gets the bigger picture, they'll see it for what it is. It took a long time for us to get there, but eventually her lies caught up with her because she acts on her emotions, but it took a lot of patience on our part, and holding our heads up high even though she'd continually bash our character. We knew people would eventually see right through her, and they did.

Honestly, don't let her frustrate you - she wants an audience and she CRAVES humiliating you - it's what fuels her. She's a drama queen, and manipulates people, and anyone willing to listen to her ongoing theatrics is unwittingly becoming a tool in her attempt to harass you. And it IS a form of sick emotional harassment. And when people intentionally tell lies like that just for the sole purpose of defiling your reputation, it can be considered intentional infliction of emotional distress.

YOu have to beat her at her own game - and by this I don't mean resorting to her antics or lies or anything like that, you have to outsmart her. You have to be level headed ALWAYS, be reasonable, be the bigger person and you will catch her in a lie, and they will eventually catch up with her.

The best advice we ever got from an attorney, is to not react to anything she does, and that has been our saving grace. The more documentation you have for the courts, facts, dates, times, witnesses, etc., the better off you will be. Document EVERYHING - every last detail, because you will need it to establish a pattern of behavior. It's hard, believe me, it's so hard to bite your tongue sometimes and be the bigger person, but you have to just walk away. Sooner or later, your levelheadedness will be apparant to everyone, and it will definitely be to your benefit.

I said to my husband years ago on the fact that my neighbor is so emotionally unstable - she is her own worst enemy, and it's true.

It is actually empowering to stay calm and in control when she has approached us, repeatedly, in emotional tizzies. And you can tell she gets frustrated the more we don't react. So, the important thing is, don't let her get to you. And, if you are being falsely accused, outsmart her. It is legal to carry a voice recorder on you, hidden, as long as you are carrying it ON YOU (check the laws in your state), so if it is inevitable that you are going to be in the same places she is and worry about her confronting you, carry that recorder on you. We do this as a safeguard because our neighbor would approach us, and then she'd accuse us of saying things we didn't say or doing things we didn't do, etc. We refuse to acknowledge her anymore, merely associating with her is a liability to us in the face of all her lies.

The best thing you can do is ignore her. She wants to feel significant, and manipulating you and watching you suffer is what she enjoys. Otherwise, she has no purpose in life. It's a control thing, gives her power. Why give her the satisfaction of reacting?

I came across an article awhile back about how to deal with a narcissist. The answer - run like hell. There are therapists who won't even treat them, because there's no medication that can help them. Cognitive behavioral therapy is an option, but only if they are willing to help themselves, but most narcissists don't see themselves as the problem. Everyone else is the problem. People like Scott Peterson are behind bars for a reason. There's nothing you can do for them to make them "normal" by society's standards. They live in a me, me, me world.

Good luck with your situation. The good thing is, most cops have good intuition when it comes to dealing with people like that. Best wishes to you.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 1:57PM
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Myfampg: One more quick comment, I was thinking about the therapy sessions you mentioned. I'd be interested to hear whether they were at your suggestion or at the request of SM.

My neighbor persevered in forcing continued contact with us with third party intervention every time we made an attempt to sever our relationship and asked them to cease contact. It was as if she was "latching" onto us via the means of third party intervention - i.e. abuse by proxy, in her ongoing attempts to harass us and initiate an audience with third parties. She would go as far as to "create" situations to use as a tool to say we were harassing her. For example, every time we ignored her, she'd create a situation where we'd inevitably defend ourselves or our property, forcing further contact with us.

The following and watching behavior persisted for years, 24 hours a day, 365 days a year. If that were me, I'd get bored after an hour, so clearly it was/is an obsession of hers. It continues to present day. The only reason we don't qualify for a stalking restraining order is because she's a neighbor.

I'm curious, because if she's anything like my neighbor, she's likely only using the "therapy" sessions as a tool to feed her need for an audience rather than to reach a resolution. Not to come across as a pessimist, as I commend you for attempting therapy sessions, but she may ultimately be the only person benefitting from these sessions, feeding her need for an audience, without actual intent to resolve matters. You might be better off just not dealing with her unless absolutely necessary.

I guess if you ignore her and she reacts this way, that would be your first queue.

Just a thought.

OP, sorry for the tangent on your thread.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 3:14PM
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" she's likely only using the "therapy" sessions as a tool to feed her need for an audience rather than to reach a resolution."

SD12 hasn't been in therapy for almost 3 years (3 months after mom got custody 6 months after anxiety diagnosis).

SD's counselor ceased meeting with her because she didn't think SD was getting any benefit from counseling other than someone to hear her side she didn't want to fix her situation just wanted someone to tell her she was right and everyone else was wrong.

NP on the tangent :)

SD contacts everyone to back her up ... she has even said when I die "god" is going to send me to he11 because of how mean I am to her .... told her god is going to make me a saint for putting up with your BS for so many years :)

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 3:47PM
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I worry that this girl will end up in a major trouble or do something majorly bad or violent to people in the family. Honestly every time she makes threatening comments I would file a police report.

    Bookmark   May 11, 2011 at 4:59PM
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