Small Kitchen/Family Room: Part 2

idie2liveNovember 15, 2009

This is a followup on our original discussion. I have had some time to think (ok, obssess) about whether I should or should not add space onto my house.

Pros: I would love to have a sitting area when you can put your feet up and spill things on the couch (this is NOT so in my LR), it would be sleeping space for overnight guest so I would not have to give up my bedroom.

Cons: if I add more than approx 150 sq ft then I will have to upgrade my heat/air ($$), spending money it might be wiser to save?

Anyway...... this is my present kitchen layout

Below: this is my perferred plan. It is 11.5' x 25' long. It is large enough to be divided into 2 spaces 11.5 x 15 and 11.5 x 10 with glass doors between, but I would have to upgrade my heat pump. I already have an estimate on the cost of this space.

Below: Plan #2 - This is my latest option. It extends out my kitchen by 8 x 10 feet. The opening between the kitchen and the addition would be almost full width, so it won't feel too closed in. Small but tidy. My heat pump is large enough that it would not have to change. The only thing in the kitchen that would move is the stove and frige. I have been waiting on this estimate for a month.

I also have another plan that is somewhat like #1, but it would just be the larger space 11.5' x 15'w/o opening up the wall.

This would be added onto the side of the house. In the drawings, the wall on the left is the front wall of the house Shown below with the short window).

So, what are your thoughts?

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Your house is darling!!! I am not sure I like the double room. I feel like it would be a long way to go to use as a dinning room and the doors take up a lot of space.

I think your third option might be the best of all. Leave the new space all one space. You can still use it as a sleeping space when needed. Still use it as a dinning space and sitting space. I think our kitchen is 12 1;2 by 21 or so.

I have one concern and that is set backs on your property line. Do you have room to make that addition?

Otherwise the smaller room is darling and I can see how it would give you a nice look out on the world passing by. I can understand perfectly why you want this added look out. It does not look like much of your front windows face the street.Door and small kitchen window. Streets are fun to watch. LOL

Our front porch is 8 foot deep and it is too narrow to do much with. If you could go at least the 10 by 10 I think you would be so much happier. Not sure on the heat pump if that can handle the added two foot. But maybe a small space heater could pick up the slack. We bought a great one for our master bath that seems to get cold in the winter. Until we put a small area run in there on the large bare part of the floor.

How fun and you did a great job of using that room designer.


    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 4:57PM
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It's pitiful, I know! For goodness sakes, who builds a house without living room windows looking out streetward? We moved in here Nov 1, 1971! It was the first time we had ever had a house with a shower and a thermostat! The street was still unpaved and the old houses that used to be across the street had the bathroom on the back porch! Those were the days, lol

In these old , low income neighborhoods the setbacks are grandfathered in at 5'! I have 18' between me and the property line.
About the 2 room plan: the smaller portion would more than likely be a storage/guest space. I just got carried away with the planner. The only reason to consider this option is that the difference between 11x25 and 11x15 is not very much costwise.

Plan 2 is doable, but I am having a hard time with the idea of opening up a load-bearing wall of my house. I know its done all of the time and my guy is licensed, but...............
Now plan 3 (which I did not show) would be 11x15 and I would not have to open the wall. I am ashamed to say that in church this morning while the choir was singing I was drawing up a plan in my head :(

    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 8:30PM
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And did the Lord give you the sign of what to do?? :^))) Inspiration can strike at odd times. I put myself to sleep at night thinking of what I need to do the next day.

I like the idea of the 11 by 15 best. A larger room can always be divided some way. We were looking at one manufactured home and my craft room was going to be 11 by 16. I have two china cabinets and since there was a nice built in china cabinet in that kitchen I could put both in my craft room. Sooooooooooooo
I was going to put one on each wall coming out from the wall like wings or room dividers. I was going to put a tension rod between them for a curtain. I have these book shelves. The kind that fold up flat when you do not need them. I was going to back them up to the backs of the china cabinets for storage shelves all nicely hidden away but easy to get to. I was even having an extra window put at that end of the room so my storage area would have light. There was also a walk in closet.I had it all figured out so all my stuff would fit in there. Also the stretch for that room went across to the other bedroom across the hall so the house ended up with three large bedrooms. All 11 by 15 and 11 by 16 and 12 by 15. But in the end we went with something else. Sigh. The cost for just that house was about 95 K. Out of our range when we still had to buy the land and do all the ground work foundation septic and our garage.

I never would have guess your house was from a lower income development.It is so darling. I love the brick and certainly understand your concern removing the weight bearing wall. Contractors are supposed to know what they are doing.

So glad you do have a good space for set back. I think we are 8 foot here on the sides and we went 10 just to be sure. Since we were squeezing onto a triangle we had so much to deal with to get it all in. Mostly the septic and leach lines and replacement line for 30 years down the road. Our little town is not on sewers yet. Hopefully never. Big $$$$$$ All for 150 people or so.

I am sure the right plan will come to you and the more you play with those design programs the better you get at it and find out what will work or not before you build which is the best. And if the largest one is not that much more in cost go for it. I think I would only I would leave it open.One big room.


    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 9:20PM
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I agree with everything Chris said! Love your house! Can you do your plan #2 without opening as much of the wall?

I don't know anything about heat pumps, but when we enclosed our garage we called our hvac co & asked what it would take to heat/cool the room & they said it would just need a couple of ducts. We put in a bigger heating unit because the old one had a cracked manifold, but didn't replace the a/c. When we got estimates for the heating unit, we found out that our hvac co. didn't have a great reputation in town, and we went with the next lowest bid. They extended the duct work from the living room but didn't run a duct directly from the plenum(sp) just for now because we knew we were planning on adding on someday we decided not to do anything major until then. They said at that time we need to add another return and 2 more ducts, and run new ductwork from the plenum for just that room. As it is now, even in winter we aren't really comfortable in there. Of course summer is miserable because our a/c can't push that far. If I had it to do over again, I think I would have added on a smaller, more manageable room to avoid the hvac costs. We are looking at $6K to bump up the a/c and add the return & vents just to that one room.

So from our experience, I'd say get a couple of estimates and ask whether your ductwork can handle the extension even after you bump up the heat pump.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 9:27PM
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Oh Good thinking Marti8a.

We did not get air in here because the manufacture said we could always add it. We ended up using a swamp cooler and it is wonderful. And for the first time in years my skin was so soft and smooth. The moisture was good for me. As soon as we took it out back to alligator skin. :^(


    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 9:34PM
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I wish we lived in a climate where we could have swamp coolers. I grew up with them and they made the house smell so good with fresh air. And so much cheaper to run than refrigerated!

    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 9:49PM
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LOL Chris, you must have been posting at the same time I was the first time. I get inspiration at weird times too, usually at midnight when dh is too groggy to answer anything but ok. If I could remember to have a tape recorder handy at those times, I could get away with a lot more than I do now.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 9:53PM
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Chris, What size lot is your home on? It just blows me away to know you live in a town with 150 people! What in the world do the young people do for entertainment? Or are you fairly close to a larger city? Our small town has about 35,000 people, but it 'feels' larger. Mainly because it is the only town of any size for 40 miles. We're sorrounded by lots of towns with 5,000 or so, people. So we have lots and lots of banks and restuarants, etc.

--even in winter we aren't really comfortable in there. Of course summer is miserable because our a/c can't push that far.-

My best friend has the same problem after an addition. Her new room is always either too hot in summer or chilly in winter. I talked to a heat/air company and if I added the larger space it would mean my 2 ton unit would be struggling to keep it comfortable.

Marti8a, I am addicted to that planner. I've saved 15 seperate plans!

---Swamp Cooler-- I know I've heard that before.

    Bookmark   November 15, 2009 at 11:43PM
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As a long-time choir member, I'm shocked that you would daydream when the choir is singing! Save it for the sermon, like the rest of us......

    Bookmark   November 16, 2009 at 3:51PM
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Loretta, Here is a link to our little town and it says 585 people but this is for the whole zip code and the last city clerk never updated the census information as it should have been so those numbers are not very close to being correct. Also this is a very old town and many of the old timers have been lost in the last few years. Just on our little block 5 people have passed away in the last two years.

What you see in the pictures is it. The kids do have the pool in the summer and the adults in the evenings. Yummy cool down for a hot night. Most of the kids work on the farms or 4H . I do not really know. There is nothing here for them. Would be wonderful to have a youth center.

I did a post on another board of the grocery store I will see if I can get it to post on a second addition here.

Our house and shop are on a half acre. Part of that is hillside so we can not really use it for anything. Too steep. That is fine with us it gives up privacy. Sort of creates a wall for my court yard.

Swamp cooler can only be used in low humidity areas. They cool by circulating water over pads in a box hanging outside your window with a big squirrel cage fan blowing bringing air in over the wet pads cooling it and blowing it into the house. We are high desert here so the swamp cooler works well. In a humid area they do not work well at all.


Here is a link that might be useful: Tiny town

    Bookmark   November 16, 2009 at 7:35PM
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OK Now you must keep in mind we are all pretty redneck here. this is the local grocery store and I added the comments as a joke. Sort of. Heheheh I have a sick sense of humor.

And on the other webpage that Darling Mayor is my Boss. Sigh too bad I am old enough and then some to be his mother. I am a year older than she is. Ho Hum..................


Here is a link that might be useful: Local Market

    Bookmark   November 16, 2009 at 7:39PM
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Chris, your town looks great to me. Reminds me of the town in Northern Exposure. The population of the "city" I live in was 672 in 2000. I think it's grown a little since then though. I don't have any neat pictures though. We only have the city hall building sitting all by itself on a country lane. No stores that I know of.

Loretta, When we moved here, there were two windows facing the front, both bedrooms. The living room window faced the driveway & toward our neighbor's driveway. Crummy enough to keep sheers over the window so we didn't have to look at it. Only the master & little kitchen window faced the backyard. Now that the garage is the den, we have more windows facing the front. I agree, what were they thinking?!!

    Bookmark   November 16, 2009 at 10:04PM
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Chris, OMG! That is truly 'small town America'! How quaint. I can understand it may be a little quiet for the younger group, but for the more 'mature' people, it must be nice to live with no crime, traffic jams, etc. That store is like a mini Walmart! Now I positively feel like I live in the 'big city', lol Really hot Mayor!

A half acre sounds like heaven!

Marti8a, I didn't know you were in a small town too. I know you said Larry, Curly and Moe built your house. Well, I suspect they may have worked in SC for a while too. Common sense would dictate windows looking towards the front of he house. Who wants to look at the driveway?

--Save it for the sermon, like the rest of us......
flgargoyle, there have been a time or two that I'm sure they noticed a blank look on my face =:0

P.S. flgargoyle, don't let Larry, Curly and Moe near your property when you get ready to build!

    Bookmark   November 16, 2009 at 11:50PM
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The funny thing about our house is the front is not turned towards the street. We did it that way on purpose, in fact chose this house because we could turn it the way we did to fit on this lot.

Still there are three 46 inch windows and a glass door facing the street. The real front of the house faces what I call our courtyard which is an imaginary court yard. My imaginary courtyard. Hehehehe Well it is now a yard since I did get the fence up this last summer. And some lawn.

We are mostly windows on this house and that is why I liked it so well.

I would have liked a smaller yard. What we call the lower yard is just all weeds . Hopefully next year I will get a lawn of sorts growing. This is all that was for sale in this town when we were looking to buy here and we bought it the third day it was listed. Our house sold suddenly to the first person that looked at it and we had to get our ducks in a row fast.

Now there are several houses for sale. There is such a darling one right next to us. Been empty for too long. So sad.

I would have bought this house in a heart beat if it had been for sale when we were looking.


Here is a link that might be useful: Neighbors house.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 12:14AM
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Im no help with the plans idie but what an exciting project to be planning out. It's a shame you might have to upgrade the heating for the add on - things are just never straight forward are they?

idaho what a darling town, I cant believe it only has 150 people! and it looks so CLEAN I mean uber clean. I'll bet your not listening to squealing tires and ambulances like I do here, funny thing is Im so used to noise I dont think I could adjust to peace and quiet now. :/

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 9:15AM
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trancegemini, that's what I was thinking too! Such a cute and clean town. Most little towns have more trashy buildings than nice ones.

Loretta, I really don't know the history of our little town. It was one of those "communities" that were everywhere around here in the late 1800's. Most of the communities have dried up and the only thing left is a cemetery or street name, but this one held on for awhile, and incorporated - probably to keep from being swallowed by a nearby town.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 5:53PM
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Believe it or not, the contractor came by today (I have sent him several messages threatening bodily harm). Naturally he did not have a prepared estimate (even though I gave him the info 6 weeks ago) Big Sigh!

But to be fair, he does not do building full time anymore. He is fairly young with a wife, children and he has a full time factory job and does contracting on the side. I've known him for years and he has done a lot of work for most of the people we work with. We like him because he always gives a good price, but we hate him because he takes so long! Can't have everything.
He's promised to come back in a few weeks to do some small repairs around the house. We'll see id he has my estimate ready.........

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 6:01PM
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Oooh Loretta, that would scare me. Probably because we used a friend from church to build our garage, or at least he was supposed to build it. He was also working another job, and didn't pay attention to detail when he was here. I hope your guy is better than our former friend.

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 9:27PM
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Hopefully everything will go smoothly. He has done a lot of work for me and people I know (including building rooms, porches, adding 2nd story). I asked him today at what point the city inspector checks the job and he filled me in on what permits, inspections, etc would be needed. The biggest complaint is going to be the timeline. I have a friend who had a room added and a bath enlarged - took almost 6 months! She was livid. But ya never know............
(fingers crossed)

    Bookmark   November 17, 2009 at 10:33PM
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OH Bummer Loretta. That would be a long time to wait to get the job done. I would be concerned to have it all opened up that long. Especially when it will be opening up into your house. Unless you stay with just your door for the opening.

Yes our little town is pretty tidy. There are a few places that need work and next year I will have to pester the people to cut down their weeds. Two of those places are my absentee neighbors. I honestly have been too busy as the clerk to dig up the city code and contact the people. We even sprayed some on one of the places. All in all this is a nice place to live.

Loretta I hope you can get your house addition built sooner then 6 months.I can understand though if your builder has a regular job and family too. There is only so much a person can do at one time.


    Bookmark   November 18, 2009 at 12:57AM
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Loretta, if it helps any, you are not alone. I got my home design software in the mail and did a little planning during the sermonsize> this morning. Just a little though while he was telling antecdotes leading into the subject.

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 4:42PM
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Marti8a, tsk, tsk! But if your pastor is like mine, he tells the same antecdotes over and over...........and over. lol
Oops! Retribution - my 'puter is freezing up!

    Bookmark   November 22, 2009 at 6:09PM
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Hi, lol on all the planning/plotting going on in church! I am sure God understands. It's very exciting when you're planning something that affects your life so much!

As far as suggestions go, it's hard to comment when you don't really know someone. I hope your builder comes up with an estimate for you soon.

I kind of like the second (or third) options, where you don't have to modify your heating/AC. If the space will be enough for you, extra space means continual extra cleaning as well as the initial expense. I like the idea of having it open to the rest of the main floor - although it is a good point that if it takes longer, it's nice to be able to close the door. A proper header beam installed across the opening should alleviate any potential problems with removing the load bearing wall - if you get permits from your town, and then inspections while the work is being done, there shouldn't be any issues (at least that's the way it works here in Canada). You don't have an upstairs which adds additional headaches when moving/removing walls.

Kind of off topic, but have you considered adding a gas stove or fireplace (sorry I don't know what's typical down there - actually I don't even know where you live lol)? They aren't terribly expensive, and can sure add some nice heat to a room. We have 1 gas FP in our home now (basement), and are planning on adding a second one in our BR. They make a huge diff in how a room 'feels'. They are much more heat effective than our wood burning fireplace (which I refuse to get rid of because of the ambiance it creates).

I love the brick on your house - it looks so cozy and cute. I used to love big houses, but lately have been more and more attracted to the wee ones. :o)

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 5:58PM
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Prairie-girl, I'm in South Carolina (about 65 miles from Myrtle Beach). Myrtle Beach is very popular with east coast Canadians. They have a festival each sping called "Can-Am Days". It's been very successful.
In my area brick is still holding on. Just in the last 10 years or so, more and more house are being built with vinyl siding.
One of the things that aggravate me the most is living in a house with small windows. Not that there is anything to see, but large windows give me a feeling of more space.
I actually started out thinking about enlarging the windows in my bedroom, the kitchen and adding a window to the front wall of the living room. But when I thought of the possible cost of re-working that brick, I started thinking about just adding on a small sitting room with nice large windows.
This will be my first winter where I'm at home full time. By the time spring is here, I will know for certain if a new room is a must.
I've always loved fireplaces. I'm not sure whether there is street gas on my street or if we would have to have a tank. I'll have to check that out.
Don't tell anyone, but I think I have another "final' final, last plan". :)

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 6:45PM
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Prairie-girl, good point about the header, it could safely open up the room.

Loretta, I totally agree about windows, and wish I could replace some of mine with larger windows, or even put windows in blank wall. But it's just not going to happen in this house. If you add the room and put in lots of windows, I bet you will end up spending lots of time there. If the room is open to your kitchen, you'll probably love your kitchen more too.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 9:48PM
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Aha - now I see the need for A/C. :) I've never been there, but it's on my list of 'places I want to visit'! I have a friend in Ontario that goes down regularly - it's one of her favourite places to visit.

A house with small windows would make me nuts too. I think I mentioned that's the whole reason our reno is happening - to increase the window in our kitchen. We don't have bricks back there to deal with thankfully.

I was thinking of asking in my last post if you'd thought of a screened in porch or sunroom in addition to your new room, if you kept the addition room size small. (Another thing I've always wanted lol) I would imagine you could make very good use of one for a good portion of the year. Up here we have such a short summer, it is not something that is standard.

It's good you're not in a hurry - a winter 'retired' is a good time to decide whether you need more space. :o) (Tho a winter down there likely doesn't lock you in nearly as much as here I would think - I'll have to do some google reading on winter weather in Myrtle Beach lol.) Do you get a lot less sun there in the winter? Our days get waaaaaay shorter. Summer daylight is from around 5 or 6 am till 10 or 11 pm, but winter the light is around 9 am till 4 pm in Dec.

    Bookmark   December 1, 2009 at 9:59PM
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Hi Marti8a! Have you been away for the holidays? Hope you had a good time.

prairie-girl, Marti8a posted pics showing how her DH added a door in their brick wall. He did an excellent job! If my ex (not so dear) hubby had had those kind of skills, maybe we would still be married - nah!
The weather here is hot n' steamy in the summer and chilly in the winter. During Jan and Feb we will have most low temps at night in the 30's - very few nights below 32 (usually). The days are often in the mid 40's and low 50's.
I was thinking if the new space had lots of windows it would give me the feel of a sunroom (without interacting with nature), lol

    Bookmark   December 2, 2009 at 12:45AM
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might I give you a much less expensive option? You have a very large kitchen..double the size of a lot of kitchens..and if you want just a place to put up your feet and relax..why not incorporate it right into the kitchen.

I see lots of options of adding countertops and islands or peninsulas in the kitchen it is without expanding..and then also putting in a small reading area with some feet up space as well..

if your range is electric, i would put your refrigerator there and where the refrig is now i would put a peninsula out toward the door opposite..putting the range in the peninsula, and maybe putting a small snack bar on the right hand side with a couple of stools..dont' know what that is by the built out part of the wall..but i would move that out..I would put a pantry where that closet is..if it is possible..and i would put two chairs with a small table between them in the RH far corner, along the wall..say a nice chair turned toward the kitchen at an angle in the corner..a little round table and then another chair next to the door..a small flat screen t v could be hung on the wall across from the chairs and you will have a 2 person family room area..

you could use an ISLAND rather than a peninsula..and place it in the center of the kitchen well ..the room would work well for that..but the corner area is being poorly utilized now and would easily hold two chairs with a table and a flat screen t v..or a love seat if the space is wide enough.

another option there might be a booth or an Inglnook..

the center of the room that is the kitchen is a lot of wasted space..before adding on space ..use what you have well

    Bookmark   December 10, 2009 at 1:26PM
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Hi Ronbre, thanks so much for helping me figure out what to do. I'm having a hard time trying to come up with THE plan that is best. I have so many layouts saved on the computer.................
I have another thread with the same title (w/o the part 2) where I first posted for advice. These are pics of my dysfunctional kitchen if you want to take a look. Please disregard the wrinkled curtains over the storage closet, lol

As you can see, it is a fairly large kitchen, but poorly laid out. Regardless of what I do, I plan to move my stove out of the corner to the opposite wall.

Down below is one of my plans that I haven't posted yet. It is probaly the least expensive, but does not meet all of my needs. One of the biggest reasons I want a new space is so overnight guest could have a place to sleep. At present when my DGD comes to spend the night, she (along with her 2 sisters) sleeps on the air bed in my bedroom. They want to look at Nickleloden , I don't, etc lol. When my sisters come, I give up my bedroom and I sleep on the airbed in the living room.

BTW, the bumpout by the closet is my a/c cold air return. Also I already have a pantry. The closet is used for storage of items that don't have to be there. One good thing about this house is that I have sufficeint storage options.

    Bookmark   December 10, 2009 at 7:25PM
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Loretta, If all you really need is an extra sleeping space what you have here could work well You could have nice fold out screens that you keep against the wall somewhere ,maybe along hall wall, when you are not needing them to create privacy for the small sleeper sofa. With the kitty on it. Hehehehe

Then you set up TV and that kind of thing in the closet you do not need for storage . Maybe put a buffet in the space with TV on top or mounted to the back wall.

Or give the girls your room and you guard that back door. hehehehe

I like the looks of that last kitchen plan. Is there a plug for the stove on that side of the room?


    Bookmark   December 10, 2009 at 9:59PM
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Just a thought, but you could easily place the stove at an angle, leave the sink where it is. Run counter space along the far wall from the stove. This would save a bunch of work for changing the electrical and plumbing.

I did an image search and IKEA kitchen designer has a georgous kitchen with angled stove. Small kitchen with tile designs on backsplash.

Below is another one.

Here is a link that might be useful: corner stove

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 8:10AM
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this is very helpful, because i can see now that that is a door rather than a corner that is usable..which it appeared to be in the idea wouldn't work there.

but your diagram looks like it would be very useful..i see you appear to have a small freezer too..could it be tucked into the closet area maybe with a pantry beside it..remove the closet doors..don't crowd the freezer too much..but if you put it in there and a maybe bookcase beside it too..that could hold a t v..there or a flat screen on the wall where the freezer is could be seen by the entire kitchen..

the sofa/loveseat there would work out well..
i see you have your brooms hanging on the wall..they could be put into a broom closet in that closet area beside the freezer eliminate the visual clutter

as an interior designer i'm going to throw out some advice you can take or throw thing..your cabinets having 2 colors add too much contrast to the room..and the dark color closes it in..try painting everything a lighter color..say a soft warm buttery yellow, or pure white, off white or a soft grey..or something similar..or if you want a charcoal grey similar to your stainless steel appliances would blend them in and make a less chopped up look..this would save having to buy a lot of new cabinets..unless you plan to do that anyway..if you do..go with something that will blend away ..

your wall color is nice and if the cabinets were all the white trim color that would be more uniform as well..

the metal wall backsplash around your stove is very would cost very little money to buy some white subway tiles and some adhesive and grout and do a lovely backsplash around the wall space..and it would be fresh and lovely..

until you get things changed..try slipping a white bookcase under the end of the counter across from your stove..or build in some white shelves there..then you can get the appliances off of your countertop and give you more room and less visual and actual clutter..

if you go with plain white also could buy some small wall hung ones for very little money and hang them over your refrigerator and over your freezer (best in the closet i think) ..and that way you can hide some of the visual clutter that is ending up on top of them..and they'll just disappear.

what needs do your diagrom not meet, you said it wouldn't meet all of your needs..a sofa bed there would sleep the overnight guests..the freezer in the closet with some more storage there will amaze you at what you can store if properly outfitted..the moving of the range will give you a fairly good work triangle but i would be slightly concerned over the frig placement outside of the triangle..
an option would be to make a really thin 2x4 drywall wall behind the sofabed and put the frig there..and use the opposite wall for just floor to ceiling cabinetry or counter with cabinets or shelves above..a simple 2 x 4 wall would be very easy to install and it would give you not only a great wall behind the sofa..but also hanging space on both sides for shelves..cabinets or utensils or artwork.

it could be a partial wall only behind the frig if that was all you would need..or it could be only as high as the top of the frig with a shelf on top for plants or just to allow airflow.

your windows are at a great height to be over a counter..

can't wait to see what you come up with..and hey that corner stove idea might work too..just make sure it doesn't block any drawers or cabinets that would have to open..that can be a problem with things near other things.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 12:27PM
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Emagineer, I love that corner stove. I'm going to take some time and go thru that site.
Ronbre, it is a long story about the cabinets. The short version is that a couple years ago I decided to strip and stain them. After doing the doors, I abondoned that idea and decided to just repaint them green and white. I never did repaint the doors because soon after was when I decided to re-arrange the room.
I guess I should say the plan does not meet my "wants", lol
I prefer to have a seperate space, cost permitting. If not, then I can be satisfied with the kitchen just reworked to a better layout. The biggest problem is the door openings. They break up one end of the room and make it unusable.
At one point I had a loveseat in there, but I always felt like I was just sitting in the kitchen (because there is no 'seperation' of the space). One of the ladies suggested a pony wall on my original post.
If you have looked at Chris' combo kitchen and sitting room, it is a great layout. But I'm sure her space is larger than mine.
Yes, there are some things I will be doing regardless. I'm going to reposition the stove (corner or across the room). I'm going to put the freezer in the closet (and use the rest for storage). I'm going to have base cabinets built along the short wall and paint them all white. I will also be replacing the flooring and the countertops.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 4:23PM
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Loretta our kitchen is 12'6" wide and I think 21 foot long. The kitchen part of the kitchen is 11 foot by the 12' 6". The thing with us is we have the door in a different place and we only need to pass through the sitting area from one side. So yes your doors are your issue.

I keep looking at your lay out. I bet I stared at it an hour last night just thinking. I know that computer arrange a room is great but I would suggest making a lay out of your room on graph paper and cutting out cabinets and your stove and freezer couch and so on and push them around that way too. Keep in mind heights too as you do not really want high to very low to high again. They say it bounces your eye around the room too much. Not my idea just something I find works saying me with the short couch right next to the 6 foot tall china cabinet. OOPS. Hehehehe

And as much as I like our kitchen I still feel I would like to change the sitting area some how. I am locked in by the china cabinet as it is the only place it will fit.

Time to fix dinner.


    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 7:50PM
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That's a good idea Chris. I even have an oversized pad of graph paper. I'll lay it out and see if I can figure out the pros and cons.

    Bookmark   December 11, 2009 at 11:19PM
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I've used masking tape on the floor too. Measuring areas and placing it where things would be changed. Even on the current counters. It gives you an idea of "room". Also works for moving furniture in other rooms or if buying a new piece for placement.

    Bookmark   December 12, 2009 at 8:02AM
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OH Hahahaha on the masking tape. That really is a great idea and I see it on decorating shows some times.

Another take on that is more then once ,not having masking tape on hand, I used vegetable or soup cans to make corner floor marks. Even got caught doing it once when hubby came home. He was speechless and half afraid to ask what I was doing. I was standing in the kitchen staring at the cans on the floor when he came in the door. From then on when ever I have talked about moving furniture he teases about the cans on the floor.


    Bookmark   December 12, 2009 at 10:55AM
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i used to live in a house that had 6 doors leading in and out of the kitchen/ i know how difficult it can be..

i was wondering if there is a possible way to eliminate any of the doors?

could say the hallway be accessed from another room..say the room to the left cuttin a hallway door in there and removing the doorway to the kitchen..OR leaving the hallway where it is and putting access to the living room from the hallway itself and close off the door into the kitchen from the living room?

also please doublecheck and make sure your drawers will open if you put the range at an angle beside them..i'm thinking they will hit..and you'll not be happy with that if they do.

i had that problem with a home i remodeled..the drawers and cabinets and pullouts in the corner wanted to all hit each other..and when a dishwasher was installed the drawer handles wanted to hit the new dishwasher handle..

gotta really plan well to avoid these problems in a kitchen esp in corners.

i totally understand your desire for having new cabinets..on the forum someone found a good source for oak cabinets and posted it under the thread cabinets, cabinets, cabinets

you also may find cabinetry at habitat for humanity restore..for a really low price..or advertise in craigslist..and see if you can find some that people are replacing..often in good condition.

esp if you are short on $

another good source is the knockdown cabinetry or modular cabinetry sold at home improvement stores like Menards and Home Depot..they come in standard sizes and can usually fit your space for a lot less $ than custom..i've used them in remodels of homes and they worked really well

    Bookmark   December 15, 2009 at 11:59AM
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