Am I a hypocrite?

Amber3902April 23, 2012

Hey girls,

So you'll remember I broke up with my BF because we argued about his son's behavior. Also, he has always worked under the table and has never paid taxes and now owes the IRS $70,000.

So anyway, I was talking to my best friend this past weekend. I told her that I have joined a dating website. I told her that I was basically looking for a man that made more than $50,000 a year, had the same political and religious views as myself, and preferred a man that did not have kids or at least if he did that the kids were grown and out the house.

Mind you, she was the one who knows about exBF and all the issues we had and why I broke up with him. Well, she told me that I was wrong for wanting a guy just for his money.

I told her that was not the case. I want a man with a good job, but that wasn't the ONLY thing I wanted in a potential mate. I did not like exBF's financial situation. Because he worked under the table, his income was sporadic and unreliable. I don't want to deal with that uncertainty. I realize no one is guaranteed a job and anyone can get laid off, but at least then you have unemployment, this guy had no kind of safety net of any kind.

She said that I need to be careful of men that join an online dating site, that they all want just one thing.

I was like -Hello, that's ALL men, not just the ones on dating websites, LOL.

She said that what they put on their profile is nothing but lies. I told her - well, I'M on the dating website - do you think I'm lying about what I put on my profile?

She kept saying that I just wanted a man for his money and I that will wind up unhappy. I tried to explain to her that I want the total package, a man that I have a lot in common with and that is finically secure. It was like she couldn't hear me.

Then she said that I was a hypocrite because I don't want to date a man that has kids. She said I have kids and whomever I date will have to accept my kids, and that it was wrong of me to not want a man that has kids.

I don't understand why people say this is being a hypocrite. So since I have kids I have to date a guy that has kids? I realize at this stage in life that most folks will have kids, so I'm not trying to be unrealistic, however at the same time if I can find a guy that I get along with and for whatever reason does not have kids is that so wrong?

Also, I look at how stressed my 13 year old is when she comes back from a visit at her dads. Her dad is dating a girl that has two kids, 8 and 9 years old, and they get on her nerves. I think of what myfampg said - that she did not want to her daughter to have to deal with step siblings with both parents and I agree.

So basically I'm venting a bit, but also wanted to see what others thought. Do you think it is wrong to want a man who doesn't have kids? Am I a hypocrite?

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It's only reasonable to want an equal partner, & that includes economics as well as religion & politics.

I don't think most people would be happy with a partner who's in a significantly different income bracket;
if you make $300,000 a year & your date is Ted Turner, things might look pretty rosy, but if you're dating a guy who works at the hardware store (there are a lot more hardware store guys than there are Ted Turners), the two of you are probably going to have wide differences in views, financial values & habits, education, etc.

I wouldn't say money is the only criteria, but look at the whole picture; money is a big part of the way we live our lives.

As to the children thing, if you're old enough to date a man whose children could be out of the house, I'd say go for it.

One word of caution:

your friend is right that the internet, just any other environment, can shelter con artists & phonies.

& it can shelter child molesters.

Before you go out on a real date with anyone, get a criminal background report, & before you get serious with anybody, no matter where you met him (one of the worst mistakes I've made involved a guy I met at church), talk to his ex & his children.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 3:13PM
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OK a couple issues here...first the "online" thing. I met my GF of 4+ years online, it's pretty normal these the hell else are people with jobs and kids gonna meet available people? Mostly all my friends, my kid's friends parents, and coworkers are married....and at this point in my life (mid 40s) I really don't want to try to meet someone in a club or something.

Most the women I met online were nice, and did not misrepresent themselves too much (I mean come on, it's only human nature to put good pix of them up). But, in talking with them, and my current GF, women do have to be more careful in online dating because there really are a lot of married guys claiming to be single online. But some simple precautions like insisting on a home phone, etc, can weed them out pretty easily.

As for not wanting to date someone with kids, or with a certain income...hey it is your life, you have every right to only want to date people with whatever characteristics you want. The only things you need to concern yourself with are the fact that a) having requirements can significantly reduce the available "dating" population, and b) if you are too public with your requirements, there will be a stigma associated with it, both by potential partners, and with 3rd party people such as your friend.

I can tell you from doing a year of the online thing before I met my GF, that some women do tend to treat it like they are "shopping", putting huge list of "requirements" on their profiles. I, for one, generally took that as a negative and would avoid people like that. I also looked at any mention of money with a cautious eye. Yes I think it is entirely appropriate to say "I expect you to have a career of some sort", or "I am financially stable and I am looking for the same" to weed out the chronically unemployed and underemployed dudes, but any mention of income level would scare guys off, trust me.

But again, "expecting" a certain income level, while not in that ballpark yourself, is generally viewed as sort of a gold-digger type thing, and you will probably attract a type of guy you are not looking for.

SylviaTexas - no disrespect, as I have seen your posts around here for a while, but are you in some fantasyworld or something? Talk to their ex? LOL! Most people hate their exes or they would still be married. Not exactly a great source for "objective" advice. My GF has met my ex once, by accident in a supermarket, and I made sure that was kept to a "oh hi nice to meet you finally" type of thing and on our way we went. Same with me and my ex's boyfriend...who she left me for btw, after having an affair with him. I think he knows the type of character reference I would give her. And kids should not be used in the dating process, that is nuts. You do not go introducing your kids to people you have just started dating, any sane person would tell you that.

Also, a criminal background report before a first date? Come on......a little on the paranoid side I think. How about just googling their name or something?

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 5:16PM
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"how the hell else are people with jobs and kids gonna meet available people?"
That's what I said!!

I work, go to school and go home. I don't go to bars or out partying late at night.

Kroopy, I get what you're saying about having too many requirements, I don't list them on my profile. If some guy contacts me and we don't have a lot in common, I'm under no obligation to respond . . . on to the next.

Money isn't the only thing in a relationship but it is important. Money was the reason me and my daughter's father divorced. That is, I made more than him and he thought that meant he could blow his money and I'd be there to pick up the slack . . . I got tired of picking up the slack all the time.

I don't mention the income requirement on my profile either. If a guy makes less than $50K I just don't respond. There could many different reasons why I don't respond. If we don't have the same political or religious beliefs, or if he has kids, or he may simply not be my type I won't respond. I don't list on my profile you MUST be this or you HAVE to make this much before I go out with you. I make $37,000 a year, and once I finish my degree it should go up, so I don't think only considering guys that make at least $50K a year is too much to ask for. And if I met someone who had a lot in common with me I'd probably be flexible on the income as well. I mean, you have to take into account the person as a whole.

And that was what I was trying to explain to my friend, but it was like all she was heard was the first sentence and after that she stopped listening. And it was really unfair that my friend called me a gold digger when she knows the crap I went through with my exhusband. She knows how he was. She knows how many times he called me at work, asking me to pay some bill that he was responsible for. How many times our electricity got cut off because he didn't pay the bill and then I would have to go down the utility company and pay it PLUS a deposit to get it turned back on.

She knows I had a nervous breakdown and had to be taken to the ER because he went out and put stupid rims for his car on layaway, something we couldn't afford to do. She knows all this, how money caused SO many problems in my marriage, and yet I'm the gold digger because I want a man that has a good job? And her husband goes and gambles their money away and she has to cash in her vacation time at work to pay their bills, but then she's telling me I'm a gold digger because I want a guy who has a good job and is responsible?

I was married to a man that made less than I did, and it only caused problems. Then I dated a guy that had a kid which caused problems in the relationship. I just know what I can handle and what I can't handle and I don't want to go down either of those roads again.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 7:36PM
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So I take it you are going into this online 'dating' actually looking for a future husband? Based on your reasons for your stated requirements along with back up on why, I get the feeling it's a longterm mate with marriage in mind. Correct?

If so, I can't blame you for setting your personal requirements (even if not listed on profile). Why waste time with someone who upfront can not help provide in the lifestyle you desire a potential spouse to share with you.

Instead if what you are looking for is an occassional adult evening out on a mere social level...a gentleman friend to go to a movie with, share a meal and have adult conversation, you might decide one of the gentleman who makes a bit less is ok. I get you not wanting to waste time with a bunch of 'duds' that you'd have to support if a potential marriage is your goal. Dating a fellow with four kids, two ex-wifes, and all his income going for child support, past piled up bills blah blah blah, would not appeal to me either, for example.

Seriously, finding a guy with $50,000 won't be all that hard (and that really is not enough money to label you a gold-digger)but finding one with no other committments aka children might be a problem. Even if you find one who has adult children who are out of the house, you have to keep in mind that you do have children in your home. He may not want to take on your children and they are not of age to be out of the home. Not that you don't provide for your own children, but I mean it may be difficult for someone with grown children to suddenly go back and marry a woman with children (all the teens years repeated ect).

I would not be too upset over the disagreement with your girlfriend. Just hold back a bit of information from her. If you get replies and they don't look like what you're interested in, why bother to say 'I turned down this one because he only makes 30,000 and is a seasonal employee'. It'll give her less to find fault with you over. Bottomline, this is your life, your potential future mate and having been burnt before your setting your standards a bit higher this go round. Now if you'd of said not a dime less than $350,000 plus income, than I might have thought 'wow, Amber is looking for money' LOL.

Be careful please. While online dating/meeting is becoming one of the accepted ways to meet people, it can be dangerous. But so too can meeting people in bars, lounges, social halls ect. I doubt I have to lecture you on safety, privacy ect.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 8:47PM
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Yes, I am looking for someone to spend the rest of my life with- when the time is right, living together and maybe possibly marriage. I don't want to waste my time with someone I don't see a future with or someone that I think is going to drag me down.

"Bottomline, this is your life, your potential future mate and having been burnt before your setting your standards a bit higher this go round."

Exactly! I've already been with one guy that was broke, so I don't want that again, and I've been with another that didn't want to discipline his kid. I was looking today on the step talk forum and I read one thread where all the ladies were saying I'm never dating a man who has kids again! And that's kind of how I feel. That's not to say if a guy comes along and we have a lot in common and he has kids that I won't consider him, but you better believe I will be watching how he parents his kids very, very closely. And if I have to chose between two guys that are both very nice but one has kids and one doesn't, I will go with the guy that does not have kids.

I'm 35 and I'm looking for men in their 40s. I realize we all have a past, and that finding a guy that doesn't already have kids may seem unrealistic, but I've already dated several men who do not have kids or whose kids are grown and out the house, so it's not impossible to find.

"I mean it may be difficult for someone with grown children to suddenly go back and marry a woman with children" Yes, I see your point. You know that makes a whole lot more sense than saying I'm a hypocrite because I have kids but I won't date someone that has kids.

You're right, I realize it might be hard finding someone who is willing to take me and my kids on. And that's okay. I'd rather be by myself until the right guy comes along than try to be with someone just because I dont want to be alone. And if he doesn't come along until my girls are grown that's okay. I refuse to settle again.

And everyone, thanks for your concern for my safety, but I am smart about it- I always meet in a public place, etc. etc.

    Bookmark   April 23, 2012 at 10:06PM
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"I'd rather be by myself until the right guy comes along than try to be with someone just because I dont want to be alone"

That's the best way to approach it...that's the same way I looked at it when I started dating. I looked at each date not as "I hope this is 'the one'...", but as just an opportunity to spend an hour or two with an adult and talk, exchange some life stories, and just generally have a nice time. If I could tell I wasn't into her (or visa versa), I didn't look at it as a waste of time or anything, just a pleasant way to spend an evening, something different that hanging with the kids, going to the gym, etc.

As for the "no kids" thing....I actually thought about it from a different perspective....I actually wanted someone with a kid/kids in the same age range as mine. I just thought it would be good for us to be in approximately the same place in our lives. My kids were 6 and 9 when I started dating again...I just thought trying to date someone with no kids or kids out of the house would lead to the "you don't make enough time for me" type of scenario a lot (I spend a lot of time with my kids, see them almost every day, and they are with me at night more than my ex, just works out better that way due to our work schedules). My kids will only be young once....I have the rest of my life to do "adult" things....I did not want someone trying to give me reasons not to spend as much time as possible with them.

As it would have it, I found someone with a son in between my kids ages, and I think my thought process was right, its' worked out very nicely. Good luck....

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 9:47AM
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No, thank you, mkroopy, I do not live in a fantasy world.

I've seen too much heartbreak & heard too many hair-raising stories to take risks lightly.

I would indeed obtain a background check before going on a "real" date;
every woman needs to guard her own *safety*, not to mention her own pocketbook, her own time, her own heart.

So often, when someone "hates" their ex, there's an excellent reason.

If I didn't feel comfortable talking to the ex, I'd find out what the ex has to say in some other way.

If the guy was evasive about his ex or dismissed my concerns by saying she was nutso or mean or he didn't know why she split up with him (one of my favorite stories, said with a pitiful little shrug: "She said she just didn't want to be married any more"), that's a big danger signal.

I once had a roommate who was swept off her feet by a charming man who said he was going to buy her a new car (he put the new car in his name, so he could take away her transportation), he wanted her to quit her stressful job so he could take care of her (isolation & dependence), & he wanted her to know, right up front, that he had been married twice (had to admit to 2, he had had children with 2 of his 5 wives).

Less than a year later, she was isolated & depressed, she had no money & no car, her health was fragile...
& she found out that the home that she thought was community property wasn't, since he'd bought it the day before the wedding.

When she left him, she found out that his exes all told the same story.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 10:03AM
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sylvia...well any women who allows herself to be "swept off her feet" by a guy promising cars, telling her to quit her job, etc...well she is a fool. Probably been watching too many 1940's movies or soap operas or something.

As for the ex thing, I still think you are crazy. Like I said, I have been going with my GF for almost 4.5 years...she loves me like crazy and love her just as much. But, I can tell you....both of our ex's probably would have bad mouthed us for various reasons. Her ex did not want to get divorced, she left him because he was irresponsible, hot tempered, and demanded her to do everything regarding the house and their son, despite the fact that she worked more than him. To this day he bad mouths her all the time, even though she is just trying to maintain the peace between them for the sake of their son. He is constantly late with support, and god forbid she mention it (she is a single mom living in NYC, she has a good job but it's not exactly a cheap place to live...she could use the money), he is the first to call her a money-hungry b*tch, and how she "uses their son" to get his money....of which there is not a lot, he is supposed to pay a measly 150 a week in support.

As for my ex...well she cheated on me twice, then left me...despite the fact that I was faithful, supported her so she could be a stay at home, treated her with respect, was home every night, etc. But of course, not enough "romance" and stuff like she was forced to look for it elsewhere...sorry I was busy providing for my family. In our discussions during the breakup, she actually had the nerve to use terms like "abuse" and "suffering" to describe what I "put her through". Yes, having a faithful hard-working husband, a new car, nice house and gym and country club memberships certainly qualified as "abuse".....

Can you possibly see why it sounds insane for me to understand the concept of a prospective date get a "referral" from my ex, as delusional as she is? I'd be single forever if this was how it went.

So here we are, me and my GF, in love with each other....yet both of our exes would sit down and go on and on about what a$$holes we are.....doesn't make a lot of sense, does it?

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 11:29AM
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"I actually wanted someone with a kid/kids in the same age range as mine. I just thought it would be good for us to be in approximately the same place in our lives."

Kroopy, I've gathered from your previous posts that the reason why the two of you aren't living together right now is because your GF has kids and there are too many tensions/issues between your kids and hers. Granted, if living together is not something you want right now, then your choice works fine for your situation and what you want in life. For me, however, I want someone that I can live with eventually. So my way of thinking is if the guy does not have kids that will be one less cause of tension in the relationship.

The same reason I want someone who has stable income, one less thing to fight about.

Sylvia - I don't know if I would do a background check on someone, but it is important to pay attention to the red flags. I think a lot of times we see the red flags and we decide to ignore them.

But a person has to be smart, too and protect themselves. If my husband wants to give me a car I would insist he put the car in my name. And if I was so lucky that he wanted me to quit my job that's fine but then I would go back to school to further my education, or at least find something part time and you better believe I would be squirrelling my money away. I don't get some of these women who don't have to work and they do nothing with their lives, they don't further their education, don't do any volunteer work or anything. Maybe the reason they're depressed is because they have no purpose in their lives. And then one day their husband up and leaves them and they have nothing to fall back on.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 11:41AM
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Amber, it's not that there is so much tension between my GF's son and my kids, it's more just something my ex and I actually agree kids are 14 and 11 now, really in the middle of those "tough" years to say the least, the last year or two have been very difficult, especially for my daughter, trying to navigate the teen years and figure out who she is...and both of us just feel that it would be better if we don't complicate the picture by having live-in "step" parents.

Both our "significant others" are a part of our kid's lives, and we are just going to leave it like that for the time being. My daughter will be off to college in 3 son 3 years after that. Then my GF and I have the rest of our lives to move in together and run around naked or whatever we want to do...I just think we are putting the kids first. Luckily, we can afford to live separately, sure there would be a pile of extra money around if we lived together, but this is just what we think makes the most sense.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 11:55AM
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I don't think it's productive or kind to blame anybody, male or female, for being deceived & victimized ("blame the victim"), nor is it appropriate or kind or acceptable to call someone crazy in an internet forum, let alone to say someone is crazy for advising caution.

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 1:12PM
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I apologize if you are offended for my choice of words, I did not mean to imply that you are crazy, rather I just think the advice you offered would pretty much wind up in no one ever getting a glowing referral, due to the nature of the prior (failed) relationship....

    Bookmark   April 24, 2012 at 1:23PM
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UPDATE- Oh WOW! I JUST got an email from this friend.

“Hey Amber! Sorry, I have not kept in touch…very busy this summer. Went to XXXXX for a week and I have been back and forth to XXXXX to visit my Dad. Also, Son is in a summer reading program and has to meet his tutor on Sunday’s. He is in their for 2 and half hours, plus the drive.

How are you and the girls? Sure am missing little D6…I love her sass.
Is D13 doing Tennis? We would love to come to one of her games.
Things are starting to slow down, so I thought maybe we could get together one Saturday.

I am missing you and our talks…I still feel a little bad about our last discussion…I was way too personnel.

You need to tell me to shut the f*ck up sometimes…LOL”

Okay, it IS normal for us not to talk for maybe a month or two, but it’s been FIVE months now with no contact.

I am trying to figure out what to do. This friend gets Super Pushy and pushes her opinion on me and expects me just to accept whatever she says as if it’s a fact. When I try to defend the point I'm trying to make, she just starts talking and talking and stops listening to anything I have to say. Literally will talk right over me.

When I got divorced she was Super Pushy - Amber, you need to do this and this. Giving me divorce advice when HELLO, she has never even been divorced, has never talked to anyone divorced and has never talked online to anyone that has gone through divorce.

Then she did it with my D13. I suspect D13 has some sort of auditory processing disorder, one doctor even suspected short term memory problems or absence seizures. So when I talk to her about it, she says,
"Why are you trying to find something wrong with her? She's just like me when I was her age and I turned out fine. Stop trying to find something wrong with her."

So I stopped talking to her about D13, but then later on she encouraged me to talk to her about D13, that she realized I just wanted to help my daughter get help. Then, in a later conversation she told me I was wrong for trying to find "something wrong with D13"!

She's done this several times now, and each time she comes back and apologizes for doing it and that I can tell her anything, that she won't judge me. Then later on down the road she does it again!

A couple of people I've talked to said don't let the friendship go. Yeah, we've been friends for six years now and I hate to let this ruin the friendship, but I can't keep letting myself get hurt like this. One person asked me - can you be friends but just keep your distance and not tell her anything too personal?

I’ve tried that before too and it didn’t work. She has a way of getting you to confide in her.
She'll say "it's okay Amber, I won't judge you, you can tell me what's going on." Then later on, she throws it back in your face and tells you are WRONG, WRONG, WRONG for doing what you're doing. Or just runs roughshode over what you’re saying and tells you what a hypocrite and gold digger you are with no respect for your feelings.

She’ll just keep pushing and pushing you to do what SHE thinks is right. And besides - what's the point of having a friend if you can't trust that you can tell them things without them making you feel bad about your decisions?

If you were me, what would you do?

    Bookmark   July 20, 2012 at 3:13PM
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Tough question, Amber. I'd think I would have to follow my instincts...whatever my first thoughts were when I opened my email box and saw there was an email from this particular person. Was I glad? Did I think WTH? Did I think 'wow, I really have missed our friendship'? Or did I think 'oh, her, have not missed her a twit and am better off without her in my life'?

Then I think I'd have to sit back and honestly go over with myself as to why, if this relationship were supposedly so important to me (or not), I myself had not tried to reach out to this person. Maybe I didn't really miss her. Maybe being 'friends' with so and so was just too high a price. You get the idea. Some friendships turn out to be just too high maintenance or a bit too one sided or simply the two just out grow each other for whatever reasons.

It does sound like the lady realizes herself she sometimes pushes her own views and agendas too hard and heavy onto you (perhaps everyone she associates on a friendship basis with). We all have our faults. Do the good points in the relationship outweigh the 'bad' points? Did I even give this lady much thought in her absence? Perhaps I might have been even a bit glad she was 'missing' out of my life?

Having a lunch one afternoon and causually playing catch-up might be fun. It might also not necessarily mean opening yourself back up to where the relationship was can set the limits on how much you desire to share between the two of you. She herself may only want to have a lunch, chat a bit , merely misses you and the kiddies, is curious what you all have been up to, but will than go back to her busy schedule. Perhaps you both really care about each other but you're both just too busy and going in different directions in your personal daily life to have much more than that right now?

You have to figure this one out for yourself. Nothing wrong in just sitting on the email a while and thinking about if you really want to respond to it.

    Bookmark   July 21, 2012 at 6:18AM
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Thanks, JMT,
Yeah, although she did have her good points, my first thoughts when I got the email was if she REALLY wanted to talk she would have called, and not go the chicken email route.

I think friendship with her is too high a price. Maybe this is why she doesn't have any close friends. I wish I could just set the limits on how much I share with her and stick with that, but she has a way of lulling you into feeling you can confide in her. And really, I don't want to be friends with someone I can't confide in. That's not a friend to me, that's an acquaintance.

    Bookmark   July 22, 2012 at 11:45AM
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