would this oven height work?

karenlk10September 9, 2013

Hi All!

I'm thinking this might be a better place to post my hopes/plans for a better kitchen space than the "big kitchen" board. I'm looking to make my tiny kitchen more efficient, not bigger.

I'm working on a plan to update because I've decided the 1950s home I've already been in for 24+ years will also be my retirement home. I just wont ever go upstairs now that kids are gone to college! :) Downstairs has two bedrooms, a small bath, a formal LR/DR combo, and a den that adjoins a 10x10 kitchen with a 10x7 breakfast nook. So the downstairs area I'll mostly live in is probably about 1200-1500 sf or less.MORE than enough room and in a great location... so I would rather spruce up the kitchen than pay 2x-3x as much to move elsewhere.

Due to odd spaces in the home design, I dont have lots of tall wall space in the kitchen. And I want to keep the breakfast area. Right now the oven and fridge are on one wall and the tiny fridge spills into the breakfast area.

I already have a wonderful Bosch induction oven installed in a peninsula and the obvious option is to install a new oven under the cooktop here

But I'm worried about the bending as I get older. I've always had a wall oven. Seems I'd have to go down pretty low and even the smooth extendable racks may not make that a comfortable task.

Then I saw this photo on an ADA website....

I could make that work at the end of the peninsula, but worry how it will look/feel since the kitchen is so open to the den.

The end of the peninsula also faces the opening to the FD/FL.

The common living areas are like a big square circle - you can chase the dog in a big circle through all 4 rooms. He likes it. :)

So - Any thoughts about the raised oven look? I guess I should point out that I dont bake that much. More stovetop and crockpot myself.

Oh. BTW - yes, I do want to keep a breakfast nook. I plan to add floor to ceiling cabinets where those white drapes are hanging in the photo above. I want them to be flush with the new counterdepth fridge that will be partly recessed into the garage space behind that wall. That will leave table space less cramped and allow more light from the little window to flow in.

What do you think about the raised oven?

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marti8a

It looks like you have the room for it. I don't know how tall you are, but I bet that area over it will be hard to use for anything other than display.

I went from this:

to this: (please ignore the mess)

I did like the oven higher, but I absolutely adore having the counter space. My cabinet was higher than yours would be because there was a micro in there too and I hated it. I couldn't reach anything in the uppers over it.

The side opening oven is much easier on my back and legs than the bottom hinged one. Don't have to reach out as far.

But. This isn't my forever home (I hope) and I usually use the side opening oven for baking which isn't as heavy as turkeys or casseroles. Those I put in the other oven because it's bigger.

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 5:31PM
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karenlk10

Marti,
Thanks for the photos. And the opinion. VERY helpful. Sadly - the frigidaire side swing oven has been discontinued. :( The fagor is too little. And the gaggeneau too expensive (wished I could afford that).
But the extra counter would be great and I appreciate the feedback from someone who's been there.

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 8:46PM
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camlan

My suggestion is to sketch out a floor plan of your kitchen and the surrounding rooms, and post this on the Kitchen Forum. There are a lot of very talented people over there, and if there is a way to get you a wall-mounted oven, they will find it.

Just be aware, they pull no punches over there. But they are very knowledgeable and helpful.

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 8:54PM
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krisz

When I remodeled a kitchen 7 years ago, I put in a wall oven similar to this, although maybe it wasn't quite as high. I used the space above it to cool cookies hot from the oven and other dishes that weren't heavy . I liked it.

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 9:04PM
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karenlk10

krisz - was the location on a wall? or in a peninsula like mine? what size oven was it (24" or wider?) trying to imagine....

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 10:45PM
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kirkhall

I would not put it in the peninsula. I think it will close off the space too much, much like (though differently from) cabinets that hung from the ceiling over a peninsula that seemed to be popular in the 50s/60s.

Why can't you leave it where it is? (oh, I reread--your fridge is too large in that space).

I think if it were me, I'd figure out how to put it where your DW is, but up higher. Move your DW to between the sink and peninsula (or in the angle).

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 11:17PM
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nancyinmich

I like the oven raised to be easier to use. I see how you will lose some counter space, but in a one-person kitchen, I am not so worried about that. Can you explain better why it cannot go next to the fridge again?

If you are concerned about how it will block the view, maybe you can raise it, but just not quite as high as it is raised in this photo. Then it will not visually block as much.

I know you probably need the counter space, but I wish that your design could also raise your dishwasher up about a foot.. As a matter of fact, If I were remodeling your kitchen, I would consider raising your dishwasher by a foot, then putting your wall oven above the dishwasher, if you are not too short to handle it there. With the dishwasher right next to your sink, I can see that this is not possible. Our dishwasher is in a corner cabinet (actually a former double wall oven cabinet) a bit down from the sink, so I have a counter still next to the sink. Then the raised DW comes next. As we age, it is wonderful! Here it is:

My wall oven sits about at counter height. See it in the link below.

Here is a link that might be useful: Oven at the other end of the cabinet run

    Bookmark   September 9, 2013 at 11:48PM
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karenlk10

kirkhall,
Liked your suggestion. Went to measure.
The left side of the sink (under the window) measures 39" from wall to the edge of the sink.
The right side measures 22" from sink to edge of peninsula cabinet.
The dishwasher measures 24".
Seems dishwasher is bigger than the available space on the right.
As usual, my house is goofy.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 12:03AM
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karenlk10

Nancy,
Thanks for understanding my concerns. And for the great idea pics!

As for my constraints, if you look at the photo above that shows the entire current kitchen/nook area from the perspective of the den, you'll see that there is only a very small space for 30" fridge and 24" oven on the wall before the breakfast nook starts.

The wall that both appliances are on is only about 50" between the garage door and support beam (that big beam and support pole that dissects the space would cost me $6000 to move btw) There is a matching support beam in the wall. So, when you do the math of fridge+oven+cabinets... things are spilling over.

My plan that wall is to reframe the garage wall (which is a support wall for the upstairs) and build a small recess into the garage wall that will accomodate half of a 24x36x70 counter depth fridge (bought but not yet delivered) and a pullout, narrow cabinet pantry. That shouldn't impact parking in the garage, but saves some floor space.

I want to add 12x20" ceililng to floor cabs around the breakfast space, and along the top of it too (maybe - still fuzzy there) to gain more storage.

My plan is to ensure the fridge no longer cramps the breakfast noon or blocks light from the little window. This was my rough draft....

I like how you angled your dishwasher - and raised it. Where are the glasses/plates at? The end by the oven?
I think one reason I'm torn about raising the oven in this way is that ovens are generally wider than dishwashers. I've already lived iwth a 24" oven for 20+ years.And unless its a gaggenau with side swing door, I'd like at least a 27" before I die. :)

A secondary issue if I put the oven on the end of the peninsula and raise it.... then where will I put the microwave??? I thot about putting it under the double cabinets to the right of hte sink, except I discovered there are no right hand swing microwaves! So it would open the wrong way!

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 12:26AM
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nancyinmich

One of my possible ideas for you was to move your dishwasher to the corner and to place the oven above it. The cabinets above would be lost, though. From the look of your diagram, maybe there is room for you to put a wall oven at counter height in this corner after all. I thought that the corner was too close to your cooktop, but maybe not. If you have graph paper or a program that can model it with the correct sizes, it is worth a try to see.

My dishes are in the big cabinet to the right of the sink and glasses are in the corner cabinet between that cabinet and the wall oven. It is not the best configuration, but we did not have the dishwasher near the cabinets before the remodel. We used second-hand cabinets that I sanded, re-stained, and my hubby finished with three coats of polyurethane. The kitchen was designed to best use these cabinets and then my carpenter made three cabinets to finish the kitchen. The corner cabinet next to the oven, the oven cabinet with the drawers under the oven, and the glass-doored cookbook cabinet are the ones he made. The corner cabinet that the dishwasher is in was a 27 inch double oven cabinet in its original kitchen. My carpenter just put a strong platform in it and trimmed the sides to fit the dishwasher, then added the shelf for the microwave above the dishwasher.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 1:53AM
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krisz

Karen, my wall oven was at the end of a run of cabinets. I don't live in the house anymore, although my son does. I don't remember how exactly how wide it was, but 24" looks about right.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 7:03PM
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kirkhall

Well, if it is just you, you could get a narrow DW (apt sized).

I still like that idea best, but it would require you "remodel" your cabinets/counter just a little.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 7:37PM
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nancyinmich

Another option would be to put your wall oven, configured as in the photo from the ADA site, where the dishwasher is now, and move the dishwasher to the space next to the cook top. It would stay at the regular height. When open, it will come out to be next to the sink. You will need to be careful not to twist and bend funny and hurt yourself, but if you pivot on your feet, it is not hard at all to load or empty it.

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 11:22PM
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karenlk10

oh you guys all have SO many good ideas! So much better here for my little kitchen than on the big board. THANK you!

    Bookmark   September 10, 2013 at 11:38PM
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marti8a

How do you like having the oven across from your stove top now? I think I'd go for the raised oven at the end of the peninsula before putting it on the other side of the sink, but just because I like having the oven near the cooktop.

But if it's no problem having the oven farther away, you'd have more counter space if you did like Nancy said and put the oven where the DW is now. If you are redoing the whole kitchen, you could put the dishwasher beside it, also raised, and put your sink in the corner of the counters. That is, if you have room under the window for the higher cabinet.

I wouldn't write off the Kitchen forum either. There are some folks there who have a real eye for design & efficiency, whether it's a mega kitchen or a tiny one. I'm always amazed when some of those people can look at a plan and see how something doesn't have enough space to open properly or cause more steps for the cook.

    Bookmark   September 11, 2013 at 9:48AM
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karenlk10

Nancy in Mich!!!!
Thanks for your creative idea of putting the dishwasher in the peninsula so I can put a wall oven the left of the sink. I shared your idea with the architect tonite (he's no designer but does have suggestions and keeps me from overlooking things like support posts in the wall). At first he seemed to think I was crazy. Insistent the dishwasher should be to the left of the sink.
Then he warmed up to the idea and said I THINK WE HAVE YOUR PLAN!
I'm going to install a 27" oven with a microwave OVER it (wow! I'll feel so fancy) and deep drawers under for the pots/pans. Cabs above it to the ceiling.
The dishwasher wont start at the end/corner of the peninsula. I made him stand in the blind cab corner (near the sink) and measured "his"width from the edge of the sink cabinets. About 27". So we'll leave 27" fillled with drawers, the the dishwasher (24") and then the cooktop to the right of that (drawers underneath)... and then unbroken counter top to the end. Under the end of hte peninsula countertop, I'll still have a bookcase, just will be able to fit ALL my cookbooks since the microwave doesnt have to be here.
I will actually have a little less counterspace, but the counterspace to the left of the sink and at the end of the peninsula tend to be storage space right now (books, mail, stuff waiting to go to the garage) and not working counterspace. So in reality, pushing the cooktop over will give me more contiguious working countertop space.
It will be VERY unconventional... and the next homeowner may hate that... but its MY house for now and I think it will suit me through age 70+ just fine. I'm still in my 50s so hopefully that will be awhile!
thank you guys for thinking outside the box. Originality made the difference here!
When I get the drawings, I'll share.

    Bookmark   September 12, 2013 at 9:42PM
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nancyinmich

Yay!
You will be able to stand between the sink and the dishwasher to unload and put dishes in the cabinets in the corner. I was hoping you would have room for that. I am glad that it worked out for you!

    Bookmark   September 13, 2013 at 1:17AM
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