Order to show cause.....

JensNatPatMarch 10, 2013

Has anyone used this method in court?

Long story short SD (13 in 3 months) has been really unhappy @ BM's house for a while now. Fights/arguments have turned physical with the police being called out last week. In our state you can physically discipline your kids however you want as long as you don't leave a bruise/mark. So they have not been able to help her. She has been either staying at our house on our scheduled visitation days or at various other family members house on BM's scheduled days. The police said we could just show up at the court house and file and order to show cause. Which means we tell a judge up front why it's in her best interest to live with us, and they set a court date, and BM has to show up and "show cause" as to why we shouldn't get what we're asking for. They may or may not allow SD to speak to the judge directly.......they use discretion after meeting her. SD wants to do this asap but we're making her wait 2 weeks to make sure she really knows what she is getting into. In the meantime we told her if she needs us to call, and we'll ask the police to do a wellness check on their house. We're not allowed to go pick her up unless it's "our" day.

It was so heartbreaking when the police had to drag her out of our car to return her to BM when she didn't want to go.

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Note: I am not an attorney and this is not legal advice. My answer is based on my own experience in family court.

You don't say what state you're in--In PA. we file a Petition for Emergency Relief when a child is in danger. The Court hears the matter within days (presumably).

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 7:37PM
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gini2 we are in NJ....we attempted the Petition for Emergency Relief but were told it won't work because up to this point she has fled the house before it could get really bad and hasn't had any bruises or marks on her. Her Mom was grabbing her by the back of the neck and holding her down (sitting on her) and pulled her backwards on the stairs by her hair when she went running for the phone to call us. Put her in a choke hold, slapped her ect.....But like I said, the police and courts won't help unless she has physical bruises or injuries readily present. Our concern is these arguements are becoming more frequent and getting worse each time.

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 7:43PM
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Hmm...At what age does NJ consider the wishes of the child?

    Bookmark   March 10, 2013 at 9:02PM
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I'm curious. What is dad doing about it?

I'm in CA & have some experience with family law here and from what you have said, it doesn't sound much more like a mother trying to control her 13 year old daughter. She may be going about it the wrong way but if she gets to court & claims the child is defiant with her and she is just trying to be the parent, it could be really hard to convince a Judge to change custody. In California, it requires a significant change in circumstances and it could cost a lot. We spent over 12 thousand on an attorney only to have the court give 50/50 custody, which is what he had before.

Before going the court route, maybe dad should talk to mom to find out if there is a problem they can work on together as a team? It is not uncommon for tween/teen girls to manipulate the parents against each other and the best course is for them to set their differences aside and work toward what is best for their child, which means co-parenting at least on the issue that is the problem. Perhaps if mom can't handle her, she would allow her to go live with dad. But, as a (newly former) custodial stepmother, beware of what you wish for. I wanted my soon to be ex to have custody of his daughter because the mother mistreated her... after they got 50/50 in court, his ex moved away a month later & left their daughter with us. I was so happy & thought I could give her the family life that she seemed to want. The next four years were a nightmare that ended my marriage eight months ago. Good luck. Teens are difficult enough when they are your own.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 12:35AM
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I was told by my attorney there is no such law in Kansas. A judge may listen to any age child, but not necessarily change anything.

My Sis's grands have a mother who is not a good parent, but does not physically abuse them. She is just mean and nasty, always nagging them about something. Makes them do her work. My sis taught the young girl to cook, now her mom makes her do the meals at 12 and makes them do a garden and maintain it. They were very young at that time. It may have been good for them in an odd way, because they learned quickly how to handle her. They would forget their cells when they went to visit their dad or any time she was in a rage. The kids take it well and it's kind of funny. My nephew bought a home close to their house so the kids could walk over if things go to bad. The boy had a harder time with it, he would cry when he had to go back to his Mom. Very sad what some parents do to their kids.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 2:53PM
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Wow Emma. "always nagging them about something" ? That makes her a bad parent? I guess she should coddle them & give them whatever they want.... that would make her a good parent???

"makes them do her work"? My grandson is 4 & I'm teaching him to do laundry. He started helping me cook when he was 2. It's called teaching them responsibility.

As for crying when going to or leaving a parent... that can also be a manipulation on the part of the child or it can also be that they want to stay with the more lenient parent and don't want to go with the parent that actually parents and makes them do what they are supposed to. They're kids but to me it's very sad when I see parents allowing their kids to run them & tell them what to do... and when I see a parent apologizing to a kid for something they should be doing as a parent

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 3:18PM
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Not in this case the woman is not well balanced. Making grade school kids dig, plant, harvest and weed while you stand and watch is wrong. Her daughter is lucky to be alive because of her mother's stupidity. She wouldn't put anything on or in the baby after it was born. No powder, lotions, no aspirins, or decongestants. She put a big sign over the crib say nothing foreign on the baby. It was so bad, the child had convulsions and almost died simply because the mother wouldn't give it something to bring down the fever and she is a nurse. Feeding them food that expired 2 years ago is not good. Don't make judgements.

What makes you think teaching your 4 year old grandson is the right thing to do. That is not a good example to site. He should be playing with you and enjoying your company instead of being taught to work. That is his parents job. My grandchildren still talk of us playing together. Grandpa played board games with them I play Nintendo with them.

My mother had the sense to let us play instead of making us work while she sat around doing nothing. Her words were, "why should I set around all day and save the work for you kids." She wanted us to play. It didn't hurt any of us. We are all responsible adults who learned how to do things when the time came. If we didn't mind or got it trouble then we worked. LOL

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 7:59PM
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What makes you think teaching your 4 year old grandson is the right thing to do. That is not a good example to site. He should be playing with you and enjoying your company instead of being taught to work. That is his parents job.

The mom who makes her kids garden and cook may be out of line, I don't know the details of that situation.

But as far as teaching children to work, my kids had chores as soon as they were able. When my son was 4, one of his jobs was to empty the bathroom trash can in his bathroom. It was very small and light, and he could easily do it.

He started helping me wash vegetables when he was so small he had to stand on a chair to reach inside the sink. My kids also had to help with a tiny vegetable garden when they were in elementary school, at least as long as we had the vegetable garden.

I think children who have a reasonable amount of chores in a positive environment gain confidence and self esteem, and, like ima, I think it teaches responsibility. I loved it when other family members, like grandparents, reinforced and taught the same values we did at home.

We played plenty. In the summer the kids and I did our chores in the morning, packed a picnic lunch and snacks and headed for the pool nearly every day during the week. We went bike riding, camping, canoeing, played board games and card games. We were able to play so much because we all pitched in and did the chores.

My kids knew that they were a loved and valuable part of the family, and I think that makes all the difference in the world. Perhaps it is not so much the work your sis's grandchildren do, but more the fact that their mom doesn't work herself and doesn't make them feel loved and valued.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 8:31PM
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SS used an emergency temporary custody petition. It gave him 90 emergency residential while the original case was making it's way trhough. The judge in SS's case did speak with SGS. I'm not sure what total ending fees were, but SS had to put upfront $2,500 to lawyer to file.

This was last summer moving into fall. As he was out of state and had to have several lawyers work together may have been reason his upfront was set at what it was. I really didn't ask SS about the finances. There was no physical abuse with SGS. His BM is bi-polar, went off her meds and was spiraling downward. By the time the 90 temporary was coming to an end, BM signed off on permament out of court agreement which the judge then approved agreement.

As an aside...Emma, Ima is raising her GS. She does not get the 'just play and have fun' as being just Gma. In her situation it is very much her role to 'teach'.

As another total aside...good to see you here, Ima! And really great to hear things are going ok for you.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 8:37PM
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Sorry I did not pick up on her keeping him permanently. I still say they don't need to do laundry at four.

I taught my boys to pick up their toys starting as soon as they understood what I was saying. I made a game of it and helped them until they got older and it became a habit. They had to keep their things picked up and in the summer straighten up they beds. One time I told one of my sons to pick up his shoes and take them to his room, he looked at me and said, "yours are on the floor". I replied with "yes and I will pick them up when I leave this room". I really miss those days. They never argued with me. I had such fun with my little ones.

    Bookmark   March 11, 2013 at 9:52PM
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Wow so many responses.......

@gini2....there is no "set age" where they consider the wishes of the child. It's a case by case basis and the maturity of each individual child is taken into account.

@imamommy.....SD is also "grounded" or discplined at our house for various reasons. Normal pre teen stuff. She accepts her punishments and never talks back. At her BM's house it's a different story because (long long back story) there is a history of emotional abuse and parental alienation on BM's part that my SD is now aware of because she is old enough to understand what is going on. She's seen her Mom call the police on her Dad and lie strait to them about him aggressivly confronting her at custodial exchanges. Of course my SD is present at the exchanges and she knows that no such thing has ever happened. When she speaks up for her Dad, she is then "grounded for lying" and threatened with counseling because she is "mental" and "brainwashed". She tried to have a talk with her Mom regarding how she feels about these things and BM just denies denies denies even though SD was present. BM told SD and us that she had a broken toe....stubbed and then xray. Andddd when we got a copy of the report from the imaging place it said there were no abnormailities found. BM told SD that she was a twin "that was miscarried" because Dad hit her while pregnant......never happened. So these are the reasons they are having a tough time with each other. I could go on and on and on with all the crazy manipulative transgressions.

    Bookmark   March 12, 2013 at 1:59PM
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EmmaR I am sorry but I totally have to side with imamommy. I am going through hell with my boyfriends ex-wife and their son. All his mother does is coddles him. He is 7 and he can't do anything on his own (or he acts like it to manipulate the weaker adults into giving in to his every whim). His mother also lets him sleep in bed with her and he tries to throw a tantrum here to sleep in bed with someone else even though he has lived in this house for 5 years. His mother even does his homework for him. His father and I are the strict disciplinarian type. We make it a priority for him to learn and do well in school and also to learn to be independent and do things on his own. His mother sees that as abuse and has called Child Services on us twice, but nothing came of it. His mother also grills him to get information or dirt on us or will even have him lie or exaggerate the truth. She id basically coddling him and teaching him that there is no repercussion for your actions in life, you cannot get in trouble for doing anything wrong. That is horrible to me! You teach your kids at a young age to be responsible. As parents we are teachers NOT THE SCHOOLS. OF course the kids are going to cry and whine to be with the parents that give them everything and lie to be with their favorite. As an adult it is wrong to place a child in that situation of "Choose your favorite parent". If the child is out of hand both parties or "parents" if you will need to work together to rear the child correctly.
EmmaR you see teaching responsibility to children at a young as abuse, I see coddling children as abuse. Why? Because you are making that child dependent on you and hindering their emotional and mental development. Sorry if I have offended anyone I just feel strongly about this.

    Bookmark   March 24, 2013 at 1:07PM
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You have not offended me. The way I look at this forum is people are seeking opinions and we don't all agree. I have always talked about my problems and when I listen to others opinions it helps me make my decision and often changes my point of view.

My opinions are formed by my life experiences. I have 3 sisters and one was so strict with her sons about working and religion that they could never live up to her expectations. They eventually went the opposite direction and 2 ended up in prison and one in jail. Another sister taught her kids nothing and now they are slobs/trash.

One thing I can be glad about is the happy home I made for my family. Even my son who partied his life away told me, "you taught me right Mom and when I do something wrong, I know it's wrong and I do it anyway." He's paying for it now, he is totally alone. No one wants him around not even me.

This post was edited by EmmaR on Sun, Mar 24, 13 at 13:29

    Bookmark   March 24, 2013 at 1:25PM
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